tg raid loot

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puk

Guest
just put yourself in emdis (how the hell do you spell your name? =P) position...

you want an item and another guy wants the same item... you roll for it and you lose, and then they guy says "ill let you buy it for 15p"

its such a clear case of abusing the ffa raids to earn money, he _didnt_ need the vest, if anything he needed to regain money for the first vest, but as it very clearly states in the rules, these raids are not for earning money
 
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celtavigo

Guest
If he payed 15p for his first vest I dont see any problem with him selling his OLD vest and using the new one he got..There is nothing in the rules that say you can't do that and I wouldn't mind if he did it either.. Selling his OLD vest that is..But if he had gotten the first vest on a FFA raid then he should be banned instantly but it seems he didn't..

But if I was in the same situation as him I would definitly NOT roll for the vest as I would rather see another BD get a new shiny vest or maybe give that bd my old one if I won the new one..

But I dont see anything wrong if he payed 15p for his first vest..
 
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celtavigo

Guest
"you want an item and another guy wants the same item... you roll for it and you lose, and then they guy says "ill let you buy it for 15p"

its such a clear case of abusing the ffa raids to earn money, he _didnt_ need the vest, if anything he needed to regain money for the first vest, but as it very clearly states in the rules, these raids are not for earning money"

Well if he told Eimdi that he could buy the new vest for 15p right after the raid then it's really gay and he should get punished.. But if he told him he could buy his old one then it's not against the rules really.. or maybe it is.. Was a long time ago I read them =P
 
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mavericky

Guest
I just have one more comment to make on this subject, go check the trade forums on this site. In there you will see many TG items respec stones etc etc for sale, how many of these were gained from FFA raids. Before you say none, one poster even admits to having gained an identical item to what they are selling from a FFA raid.

If you do take any actions against Brite then I assume you will act fairly and take the same actions against anyone who has done/is doing similar?
 
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GrivneKelmorian

Guest
Originally posted by mavericky
I just have one more comment to make on this subject, go check the trade forums on this site. In there you will see many TG items respec stones etc etc for sale, how many of these were gained from FFA raids. Before you say none, one poster even admits to having gained an identical item to what they are selling from a FFA raid.

If you do take any actions against Brite then I assume you will act fairly and take the same actions against anyone who has done/is doing similar?

I agree with you porkie. If something is done against Brite, same thing should be done about others.

But I also agree with others that say that he didnt need the BD vest, since he already had one.
 
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Tesla Monkor

Guest
As stated before, the FFA raids are a way for people to get items they /need/ outside of their respective guild-raids and whatnot. If you have an item already, then you do not need a new one.

I'm not going to go into a discussion about the state of that particular item - even if it's nearly broken, you still have it. When it goes poof upon repairing, you don't have it anymore and you are eligable for a replacement.

I'll include this in the next hunt's FFA rules, eventhough I would have preferred people to use their common sense and be considerate towards other people.

Since Brite already had the vest, he has to hand it over to the only other person interested in it. It doesn't matter how or where he got the other vest in the first case. If he refuses to return the vest, he will be banned from any future FFA raid, TG or otherwise.

There is of course a difference between types of loot. Noone will mind if multiple dyes or boots end up with one person after several hunts. Hauberks are so rare that it really isn't acceptable that two end on the same player when there are others who have a much greater need for them. For anything other than dyes and boots I guess I'll have to be harsher. Any construct that includes you making money and FFA drops is no-no. Be smart. Don't even do anything that could be interperted as earning money using FFA drops. Don't try rationalize it. Just don't do it. (As of me writing this, I have 22 pairs of redundant boots on the TG Mule for relottoing. That kind shows how wanted those are.)

Case closed.
 
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celtavigo

Guest
I change my opinion after reading that Tesla, I have to agree!
Due to the fact that hauberks/vests etc are so damn rare..If someone rolled on a Warrior hauberk and already had one then I would get pissed as hell even if he had got it somewhere else..
 
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~Mobius~

Guest
Its quite obvious from reading replies here who the greedy fucks of the realm are. ;o
 
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brite

Guest
Knew this would happen

Bonedancer is my only char so i want my stuff to be the best hence why i bought the vest for 15p in the first place, which i farmed for weeks and worked hard to get

If i had got a TG Vest on an earlier TG hunt i would understand your complaint, but no i worked hard and sold most things of value i owned to get that vest, and i wasnt offering to sell it you, when i was talking to you i was being honest trying to make sure there was no hard feelings i wouldnt of sold you that vest for any amount of money

As for the raids i was just going for the hell of it, so ban me ? I'd hand it to him but hes obviously just another flavour of the month bonedancer give him a week/month and will be onto another charecter (savage or did it get nerfed?). Try putting some effort into your charecter, lottos didnt work out my way, but i got my ass farming again and bought new items and new MP set, and no whine ! amazing

Call me whatever you like but unless i respect you it's not gonna mean shit
 
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puk

Guest
brite however hard you worked for that vest doesnt change the fact that they are rare and you got 2 =/
 
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Sarnat

Guest
Originally posted by brite
Call me whatever you like but unless i respect you it's not gonna mean shit

You, Sir, are a greedy bastard.
 
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ninjasasin

Guest
In reply to you brite , if you asked around peeps who know me , you will find this is my main character , not a fotm as you so wish to term me as. i believe you did offer me that vest for 15 platt so pls dont make a fool of yourself and try to make out im a liar. Please can you just give a valid reason why you need 2 vests , as i think you are just being greedy . So you worked hard to gain money to buy one , great you got one so you got what you wanted by that route , dont see why you should stop someone getting lucky by gettin a lotto'd one cause you wernt lucky enough to get that way. Surly its common sense to let other peeps have a chance of ownin something uber , but with people like you in the game i feel the chances are very slim . In short you dont need 2 vests so why roll for something you dont need.




eimdi 50 zerk
eimad 50 bd
rayder 41 shammy

please note there is no fotm savage here and only 2 lvl 50s
 
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shanks

Guest
Concerning bans because of loot issues, we dont have complete records of who got what thus the banning system is largerly based on informants. Like any system, we punish the crimes we see and can prove are crimes. Nothing else we can do. The rest is up to the common decency of the community (or lack of it).

The only thing I can think of doing to check if a item is from FFA's in the standard situation is to ask the person selling basically in every thread concerning TG loot on the whole tradesection. Not something I feel like doing, since I already have enough work in a day. Remember, the FFA project is only a 2 man thing atm held together by small pm's once or twice a week. We simply dont have the time to do this kinda thing ourselves. So if you have any item trades you want punished, dont be afraid to bring them to mine or Tesla's attention. Porkie seemed to know a few. What could help the sitiuation is if people stated in the threads where they got it from, for example if focus pulling skellies or a alliance hunt or whatever.
 
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Suedish

Guest
Afaik Eimdi made his bonedancer very fast when SI came and iirc (lots of abbv's here) he hit 50 quite fast aswell. So i guess that makes him fotlsm* then.

* = Flavor of the last six months
 
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mavericky

Guest
Originally posted by shanks
Concerning bans because of loot issues, we dont have complete records of who got what thus the banning system is largerly based on informants. Like any system, we punish the crimes we see and can prove are crimes. Nothing else we can do. The rest is up to the common decency of the community (or lack of it).

The only thing I can think of doing to check if a item is from FFA's in the standard situation is to ask the person selling basically in every thread concerning TG loot on the whole tradesection. Not something I feel like doing, since I already have enough work in a day. Remember, the FFA project is only a 2 man thing atm held together by small pm's once or twice a week. We simply dont have the time to do this kinda thing ourselves. So if you have any item trades you want punished, dont be afraid to bring them to mine or Tesla's attention. Porkie seemed to know a few. What could help the sitiuation is if people stated in the threads where they got it from, for example if focus pulling skellies or a alliance hunt or whatever.


I agree totally that if its in the rules not lotto for items if you already have then Brite should give this item to someone who needs it (give and not sell) or return it to be relottoed. What i disagree with strongly is for Brite to be the scapegoat here when others are obviously doing a similar thing.


oh and in answer to mobius about who the greedy fucks of the realms are, well i was pretty much the only person in the post to defend Brites position and can assure you that you are not correct. I have about 1p between my 4 lvl 50s atm, I have a LGM spellcrafter but the most i charge for scing is 600g for a full suit of 5pt oc, ie cost price, i dont call that greedy, i try and help the people i know. I just felt that Brite was being whacked by a whole load of ppl who were not 'oh so white' themselves.
 
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shanks

Guest
Originally posted by mavericky
I agree totally that if its in the rules not lotto for items if you already have then Brite should give this item to someone who needs it (give and not sell) or return it to be relottoed. What i disagree with strongly is for Brite to be the scapegoat here when others are obviously doing a similar thing.

Well, it's not like anyone forced him to break the rules. And you keep using the "others do the exact same thing" several times without giving any concrete examples of incidents. Hence rendering the arguement pointless.
 
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Tesla Monkor

Guest
I tried to mediate between Brite and Eimdi in the affair to see if this could be peacefully solved. Brite gave away his old vest to a guildie, and Eimdi found the items offered in compensation not acceptable. (I will not pick sides here).

That leaves me the sad duty of having to ban Brite from future FFA's.
 
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ninjasasin

Guest
A sad lesson has been learnt here i think , im not happy brite has had to be banned , but i just think if people would consider there actions more , the game would be more enjoyable for everyone. If you dont need it dont loto for it imo , that way everyone gets a chance to have nice items , which at the end of the day will make midgard a much more formidable force in rvr and such like.
Id just like to thank tesla and fetsryk for handling this difficult matter fairly and unbiased , i just hope no one else has the same problems in the future.

And to brite , hope it was worth it , shame it couldnt be sorted out with a better outcome for all.

btw this is my final post on the matter , thanks for everyones opinions.

eimdi 50 zerk
eimad 50 bd
rayder soon to become buffbot
 
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shanks

Guest
Originally posted by ninjasasin

Id just like to thank tesla and fetsryk for handling this difficult matter fairly and unbiased , i just hope no one else has the same problems in the future.

Im bias, I dislike the guy. Luckily Tesla isnt though.
 
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mavericky

Guest
Originally posted by shanks
Well, it's not like anyone forced him to break the rules. And you keep using the "others do the exact same thing" several times without giving any concrete examples of incidents. Hence rendering the arguement pointless.

Concete example for you, posted by someone (not mentioning name but at top of page in forum) on trade forums, look at the statement in the middle

A few items in vault I no longer require so i'll put em up for sale and c if anyone want em, none of them are from the regular FFA raids.

Dragon Shadow Axe
16.5dps, 3.6spd, 100% quality, 35% bonus
+4 Axe, +4 Shield, +4 Parry, +15 Qui
64 pt damage over time proc (matter)

Starting bids at : 4p, buyout at : 10p

Dragon Shadow Sword - Sold to buyout

Wintery Seeker's Boots - (1.64 stats)
102af, 100% quality, 35% bonus
+3 Melee Skills, +9% crush, 7% heat, +64 HP
95 pt direct damage reactive proc

Staring bids at : 0.5plat, buyout at : 1.5plat

Blue Dragon Crystal
100% quality, 35% bonus
+4 Stealth, +21 Con, +19 Dex, +19 Qui

(I have gotten one of these on a FFAraid, but this is not that one as I will still have one in my possession after this sale.)

Starting bids at : 3plat, buyout at : 8plat.

2x Ancient Icebound Shield - Large
100% quality, 35% bonus
+4Shield, +4 Parry, +15 Str, +22 Con
[?] cold proc

Starting bids at : 2plat, buyout at : 5plat

Icy War Spear
16.5dps, 4.0spd, 100% quality, 35% bonus
+6 spear, +3 Stealth, +6% crush, +6% thrust
100 pt ablative melee buffer

Starting bids at : 2plat, buyout at : 7plat

Seething Frostbound Hammer
16.5dps, 3.7spd, 100% quality, 35% bonus
+4 Hammer, +8% crush, +48 HP, +8 Power
5dps damage shield proc

Starting bids at : 2plat, buyout at : 6plat

Runed Tuscarian Boots - (1.64 stats)
51af, 100% quality, 35% bonus
+15 Dex, +9% thrust, +9% energy, +7% spirit
95 pt direct damage reactive proc

Staring bids at : 0.5plat, buyout at : 1.5plat

Tuscarian Ice Shadow Cloak
100% quality, 35% bonus
+22 Con, +21 Pie, +8% energy, +48 HP

Starting bids at : 3plat, buyout at : 6plat

Also selling

Black enemal - Sold.
Golden enemal, 1plat (no auction).

Respec stones, 2.5plat each, 5 stones for 10p.

Auctions will end on friday, items which reach buyout will be delivered the same day they reach buyout (or the day after if late). Happy bidding.

Note : All items are 100% con/dur, and have never been used.
If you can't find me ingame and wanna get the item you payed buyout/fixed price for fast contact me on Quakenet, nick *****^ (usually in #vrede.daoc chan idleing)




 
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shanks

Guest
That bidding is actually a totally different thing. Since he attained the FFA drop and this is the important par before he got the second one. Hence he had no intention of selling it when he rolled for it on the FFA raid. What he does with drops attained after that is none of our buisness.

Any other case you want solved? :)
 
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mavericky

Guest
Originally posted by shanks
That bidding is actually a totally different thing. Since he attained the FFA drop and this is the important par before he got the second one. Hence he had no intention of selling it when he rolled for it on the FFA raid. What he does with drops attained after that is none of our buisness.

Any other case you want solved? :)

Doesnt say anything about which order he got them, but hey, i guess you know best :eek:
 
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puk

Guest
porkie you keep saying that brite gets judged harder than anyone else, could you please refer to another incident where its proven that someone has had a rare piece of loot, then lottoed for that same thing on a ffa raid and then tried to sell it to the one who lost the lotto?
 
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mavericky

Guest
Originally posted by puk
porkie you keep saying that brite gets judged harder than anyone else, could you please refer to another incident where its proven that someone has had a rare piece of loot, then lottoed for that same thing on a ffa raid and then tried to sell it to the one who lost the lotto?

I didnt say in any of my posts that Brite was getting judged harder than anyone else, what i did say is that if he should be treated in the same way as anyone else. If anyone has made profit from a FFA raid in a similar way then they should recieve the same punishment.

I did post an instance of someone doing a very similar thing, although it appears from shanks' post they got their first item on a FFA raid, so it does make sense they can sell the other one.

Do I have proof of it happening with anyone else? No of course I dont, but it may make an interesting read to see what drops people have received in the past, and then see if they match any posts on the trade forums.
 
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puk

Guest
Well at least to me, the part of trying to sell the vest to the one who lost the roll shortly after the raid is absolutely not irrelevant.

To me its a completely different thing if someone rolled for an item, used that item for a couple of months and then sold it. Even tho i dont like that case either, its imo not as serious since then you rolled for the item because you needed it.
 
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mavericky

Guest
Brite didnt try to sell the FFA vest, he tried to sell his old one which he paid for himself. Tesla has stated since I started posting that this is against FFA rules so I am fine with the ban.
What I dont like to see is one person get banned and others get off scot free, which i suspected was happening and wanted the raid organisers to be aware of this.

It may be useful after future raids to post what people got what drops so that there can be some policing of 'quick' resales that you dont like either Puk
 
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brite

Guest
I didn't even try to sell the old one. I'm giving it away to someone who i think deserves it, as i said i have all the gear i wanted i went to tg raid for the hell of it, 5 hours or so and i got lucky, I'd rather give my old one to someone who i think deserves it and has helped me out rather than some flavour of the month bonedancer(you say your not fotm but you had a zerker before, you figure that got nerfed so start a bonedancer as you heard savage might get nerfed ?) Eimad you kept going on how i have done my realm bad or whatever, but you just are totaly contradicting yourself, the vest is going to someone who can put it to better use in my opinion, it's not sitting in my vault (when i was searching to buy one i came accross a hell of a lot of people with them sitting in vault saying OH ill level a BD soon so i might keep it bullshit) All you want Eimad is the vest or your going to spit your dummy out. You expect me to do you any favours when you come on here chatting shit and whining? You have a problem with me you come to me you peice of shit.

What have i gained from this? well i spent 5 hours on the raid got a vest im going to give away and banned from all TG FFA raids?
 
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shanks

Guest
Heh, now your just changeing your story like a five year old caught in with his hand in the cookie yar Brite.

I suggest you take what's coming to you before I extend the punishment to your newly joined guild. Which is infact standard procedure for people not cooperating with the FFA administration.

And concerning loot records, they are _very_ incomplete, I used em as markers on raids for who got loot and who didnt. Ill take a snippet from the temporary sheets I use before updateing the mod listing. (It's a totally random copy/paste, no thought behind):

name currmod rollclass mod/drop
borand 80 shammy +10
siga 0 sb +10
xzvir 10 savage +10
aveh(kai) 20 skald cloak
bluerock 10 shammy skuf

Now as you see, it's no essays I write on who gets who, since im busy trying to conduct a lotto. I try when it's higher imbue/rarer items to write out the name. As in skuf's hammer here. Other times I just write cloak, that's not very precise now is it. I dunno how Tesla does it, but I have no intention of "dogtaging" drops since it's simply to much work, I personally think a hour lotto's are enough without me having to add more work to that. So no matter how good it would be with dogtagging drops it's simply not possible for the raidleaders without additional help(which has been lets say, rare)
 
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brite

Guest
Originally posted by shanks
Heh, now your just changeing your story like a five year old caught in with his hand in the cookie yar Brite.

I suggest you take what's coming to you before I extend the punishment to your newly joined guild. Which is infact standard procedure for people not cooperating with the FFA administration.

How have a changed my story ?

Heres a nice short story for you:
I Buy TG vest for 15p.
I get Lucky on a lotto raid and get another one.
I give my Old TG Vest Away.
Eimad spits his dummy out.
Whine.

and threatening me with banning people from my guild is just low its like pointing a gun at someones child, like i said you have a problem with me you come to me, only i answer for me.
 

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