Terminator Salvation

[Ctuchik]

but that's like comparing a big mac to a whopper.

and either of those 2 is actually good enough to pay for?

 

[nath]

and either of those 2 is actually good enough to pay for?

Well that's down to personal preference. I think they're pretty fucking awful personally, though every now and again I get an overwhelming urge to have one. I immediately regret it though.

I think my analogy, much like the plot of the Terminator films, falls to pieces if you analyse it too much.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well, most people like to hate WoW for example, yet 10million+ people like it.

Personal taste.

Some wanted something else, others something else.

If you think the movie was crap, then it is to you.
If you thought it was good, then it is for you.

Arguing about eachothers taste is like arguing what someone else should wear.

Yeah i'm talking to you women

Now when Transformers 2 comes along, can we just link to this thread and ask people to imagine "john connor" means "optimus prime" and "arnold" means "megatron"?

 

[DaGaffer]

Well, most people like to hate WoW for example, yet 10million+ people like it.

Personal taste.

Some wanted something else, others something else.

If you think the movie was crap, then it is to you.
If you thought it was good, then it is for you.

This is true, but it doesn't mean there still aren't absolute definitions of "bad". In this case, despite my best efforts I couldn't ignore the woeful script. I'm actually quite forgiving about popcorn movies, I liked Transformers and I could even sit through Indiana Jones and The Crystal Skull again (apart from the monkeys. And the fridge. and the loss of my childhood), but Salvation was either written by a moron or someone who didn't care enough to do it right, and I'm not sure which is worse.

 

[old.Tohtori]

This is true, but it doesn't mean there still aren't absolute definitions of "bad". In this case, despite my best efforts I couldn't ignore the woeful script. I'm actually quite forgiving about popcorn movies, I liked Transformers and I could even sit through Indiana Jones and The Crystal Skull again (apart from the monkeys. And the fridge. and the loss of my childhood), but Salvation was either written by a moron or someone who didn't care enough to do it right, and I'm not sure which is worse.

I think it's a case of if being a sequel.

They should've made it more clear that "this is a new bale presents..." err...i mean..."this is a new line of movies, don't compare to previous" like the batman movies etc.

I can see why people think it's "absolute shite" and i personally, while being very tolerant and can see a movie with a "right mindset", wouldn't give it much praise either.

But, at the end of the day, it's not as bad as a "pure boom entertainment" as i'd expected.

Maybe they should've dropped even mroe story and compensate with more boom

 

[Damini]

It wasn't a travesty. It just didn't have a coherant strand of plot running through it, it didn't present a John Connor you wanted to rally behind, and the end was shite.

 

[00dave]

This is true, but it doesn't mean there still aren't absolute definitions of "bad". In this case, despite my best efforts I couldn't ignore the woeful script. I'm actually quite forgiving about popcorn movies, I liked Transformers and I could even sit through Indiana Jones and The Crystal Skull again (apart from the monkeys. And the fridge. and the loss of my childhood), but Salvation was either written by a moron or someone who didn't care enough to do it right, and I'm not sure which is worse.

It sounds to me like you're saying that because you didn't like it it's actually a bad film. At the end of the day some liked it some didn't it's hardly a bad movie just because some internet critics gave it a bad score, like whazzerphuk said, internet critics do seem to have a "I need to feel superior to everyone else" attitude about them so their opinions are not to be trusted. Look at Ben Croshaw, scathing about practically everything, he only gives a good review when it's something different and unexpected.
The only other critic I've heard was James King on radio 1 he gave it an average score but then his opinion is useless anyway because he's obssesed with musicals and rom coms.

Lets look at Quantum of solace, you all seemed to love it but I thought it was a massive pile of wank, there seemed to be no plot at all, just a lot of action sequences linked together.
Transformers, hugely disappointing, tin foil in a blender is the only thing that comes to mind.
Star trek, how the hell am I meant to believe that the flagship of starfleet is crewed by what seems to be 95% cadets???

Can we not just chalk this down to personal opinion and leave it there, I don't know why everyone is trying to convince the people who liked it that it's a terrible movie and should be forgotten about. I liked it, I thought it was an excellent action movie that did a good job of changing the tempo of the franchise, because nothing will change the tempo like a nuclear disaster.
If you can't handle the fact that some people liked it then well I'm afraid there is no hope for you at all.

 

[MYstIC G]

Star trek, how the hell am I meant to believe that the flagship of starfleet is crewed by what seems to be 95% cadets???

Because that's explained in the story.

Can we not just chalk this down to personal opinion and leave it there, I don't know why everyone is trying to convince the people who liked it that it's a terrible movie and should be forgotten about.

No because you keep playing the "I liked it card" -v- the "if you read this logically, it doesn't make sense" card?

 

[00dave]

No because you keep playing the "I liked it card" -v- the "if you read this logically, it doesn't make sense" card?

I you read what you just posted logically it doesn't make sense. You're playing the "I thought it was crap so I'm going to argue with you until you agree with me" card?? Seriously you can't change someones opinion so why are you trying?

 

[DaGaffer]

I you read what you just posted logically it doesn't make sense. You're playing the "I thought it was crap so I'm going to argue with you until you agree with me" card?? Seriously you can't change someones opinion so why are you trying?

Why are you getting upset about it? You seem to be on some kind of crusade to defend this film to the extent of slagging off the entire internetz as elitist bastards. You also have a neat line in excluding critics who don't fit your views What, are you in investor in the film or something?

Fine. You liked it. Well done. It still doesn't stop it being badly plotted, woodenly acted shite, with an absolutely ridiculous ending though.

(NB. I don't know anyone who thought Quantum of Solace was much cop, certainly not by the standard set by Casino Royale).

 

[old.Tohtori]

(NB. I don't know anyone who thought Quantum of Solace was much cop, certainly not by the standard set by Casino Royale).

Should i say it?

Probably not...

Hmm.

Well it IS my opinion.

Ok...fine. Casino royale was a bore after they reached the casino royale!

 

[00dave]

Why are you getting upset about it? You seem to be on some kind of crusade to defend this film to the extent of slagging off the entire internetz as elitist bastards. You also have a neat line in excluding critics who don't fit your views What, are you in investor in the film or something?

Fine. You liked it. Well done. It still doesn't stop it being badly plotted, woodenly acted shite, with an absolutely ridiculous ending though.

I'm just countering the arguements being thown in my face much like you are, surely that's what debate is all about, or was this thread started for the sole purpose of slagging of T4 and anybody who did like it can shutup and piss off. And as for slagging off the entire internet I'm actually just backing up something wazzerphuk said earlier, in fact I only mentioned it once in agreement. I only mentioned 2 critics by name and one hasn't/won't even review the movie, the rest was a generalisation so how that can be excluding critics who don't fit my views???

Yes I liked it, I'm also a huge terminator geek and all my other terminator geek friends loved it too, which is why I don't understand why so many people didn't like it, unless Wazzerpuk's theory holds water.

Also

(NB. I don't know anyone who thought Quantum of Solace was much cop, certainly not by the standard set by Casino Royale).

https://forums.freddyshouse.com/general-2/233318-quantum-solace-3.html

 

[Chilly]

oh ffs. it was a shit film, end of. ok?

 

[nath]

Yes I liked it, I'm also a huge terminator geek and all my other terminator geek friends loved it too, which is why I don't understand why so many people didn't like it, unless Wazzerpuk's theory holds water.

Or... maybe.. it's a bad film?

Are you saying there's no such thing as a bad film? Surely *any* film you choose you can find people who like it.

It is possible to like things that are bad y'know. For example, the acting of the Hmong kids in Gran Turino was *awful* but I quite liked it despite that. Just because their job is to make the film entertaining and I found it entertaining doesn't change the fact that they were really quite bad actors.

 

[Calaen]

The script was terrible, the plot was even worse,

Spoiler

Melting the robot at the end and then freezing him. I was wondering if they had actually watched T2 for tips. I was not bothered if Connor died, in fact Wright would have been a better guy to keep alive.

 

[megadave]

I don't really get what was to like about this movie? :|

 

[tris-]

Arnie-bot and all of tghe BOOM EXPLOSION IN YOUR FACE moments.

I couldnt give 2 shits about a 'plot' or a complex story when im watching your run of the mill action explosion flick. In such a case, its all about the effects and the EXPLOSIONS.

that is why I liked it. If I wanted complex stories Id be watching something like Die Hard or Con Air.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Let's see;

Spoiler

Motorcycle terminators chasing a truck. Cool.
Big ass robot shooting moving vehicles with even a bigger ass cannon. Cool.
Molten metal poured on a big terminator, then frozen. Cool again.
Bandanna wearing minigun waving terminators. Again, scrotum tickling cool.
Silly lines like "i'll be back" and playing "you could be mine" while setting a trap for a motonator. Cool and "hihi".
Flying terminators vs A-10s, oooh so cool.
Nuclear 'plosions. Always cool.
Terminator vs terminator "it's ouch time" whackabloowie battles. Going in the cool slot again.

I might be leaving something out, but come on! As far as action goes, it can't be denied.

 

[Calaen]

I might be leaving something out, but come on! As far as action goes, it can't be denied.

Spoiler

terminator bikes with built in USB ports so humans can steal them yeah that makes loads of sense

I thought it was all poo, there wasn't

Spoiler

enough fear of the robots, it was like yeah lets go into their town and fuck em up.

Transformers can't come any quicker!!!

 

[MYstIC G]

Transformers can't come any quicker!!!

Indeed. T1 was good, T2 was better, T3 was 'meh', T4 is shit.

Roll on autobots -v- decepticons

 

[DaGaffer]

Let's see;

Spoiler

Motorcycle terminators chasing a truck. Cool.
Big ass robot shooting moving vehicles with even a bigger ass cannon. Cool.
Molten metal poured on a big terminator, then frozen. Cool again.
Bandanna wearing minigun waving terminators. Again, scrotum tickling cool.
Silly lines like "i'll be back" and playing "you could be mine" while setting a trap for a motonator. Cool and "hihi".
Flying terminators vs A-10s, oooh so cool.
Nuclear 'plosions. Always cool.
Terminator vs terminator "it's ouch time" whackabloowie battles. Going in the cool slot again.

I might be leaving something out, but come on! As far as action goes, it can't be denied.

Lets look at those one by one shall we?

Spoiler

1. Director: "What was that cool chase in T2? Oh yeah, a truck chasing a motorcycle. So we could have...a motorcycle chasing a truck! We're geniuses"
2. Director: "remember that cool bit in T2 where the T1000 was frozen then melted? I know we'll melt then freeze. That's original" (we'll ignore the fact that molten metal was what killed the T800 and T1000 in T2. This model is obviously made of sterner stuff.)
3. "How do we make these early Terminators look like primitive models? I know, we'll give them a silly hat. That'll work."
4. I have no problem with the silly lines.
5. Or the A-10s.
6. Or nukes.
7. Except the Terminator v. John Connor scenes were badly judged. Why would a Terminator throw you about? If it manages to get its hands on you, you're fucked. This is why in the earlier films the Terminators never got that close until they were pretty fucked up and malfunctioning, because the scriptwriters knew this. Lazy, lazy writing.

Spoiler

terminator bikes with built in USB ports so humans can steal them yeah that makes loads of sense

Spoiler

and seats, and handlebars. Even if the seat was for android terminators to ride them, why the hell would they need handlebars?

I thought it was all poo, there wasn't

Spoiler

enough fear of the robots, it was like yeah lets go into their town and fuck em up.

Spoiler

agreed. The original film basically showed how everyone hid underground and popped out hit and run style, and that you never knew when they would strike. You know, "absolutely will not stop" etc. In this it was like, "its OK, they're way over there so we can walk about in the open and light camp fires". Lame.

 

[nath]

That's a good point, they really lost *the fear* in this one. When the terminator was walking towards you (not running, even though they can, but still) it was scary. It was almost zombie like - you can get away if you're nimble, but if you get caught you're going to be ripped to shreds. T3 fucked that up by having Arnie get all reprogrammed and then chucking Connor about. If they grab you, you should be utterly fucked - chucking people about *removes* that dread that this unstoppable killing machine is getting close.

Which reminds me, in T2 why the hell did the T1000 say "call to john" why not just kill Sarah there and then? Plot holes everywhere, but at least the old ones made up for it with tension. Something the new one lacked entirely.

 

[old.Tohtori]

DaGaffer, while i acknowledge that they've been done before, are done invert, it doesn't take away from it being fun to look at.

Hell, T2 is fun to watch too, even if you know all the plotholes and you've seen it done before...in the same film

I know where the "hatred" comes from, i'm not disputing it(even if some points could be argued till kingdom come) as it's personal viewpoints, simply stating that i found it to be an entertaining action movie when i switched off my "ner-d-ar".

 

[00dave]

Which reminds me, in T2 why the hell did the T1000 say "call to john" why not just kill Sarah there and then? Plot holes everywhere, but at least the old ones made up for it with tension. Something the new one lacked entirely.

I don't mean to call you stupid here but wtf? Is that a serious question? Why would the T1000 kill Sarah, she stopped being the target once John Connor climbed out of her fanny. He was using her as bait in this scene and the entire film.

And you can't seriously tell me you prefered T3 to T4, with that whiney bitch and that kiddie fiddler (can't look at him the same after sin city) running around being protected by the T-OAP series in his gay stripper gear and running from the latest model terminator which is basically a nerds dream and laughable at best.

 

[nath]

The question is, why wouldn't he kill Sarah. He didn't *need* her as bait as he was perfectly capable of transforming in to her anyway. I guess one could make the argument that since his dip in the liquid nitrogen his morph systems were all fucked up (as shown in more detail in the directors cut) and so figured it made more sense to force her to cooperate rather than risk fucking it up himself.

As for T3 vs T4 - well, they're both crap, the only thing going for them was the action scenes and quite frankly T3's were better. I got zero excitement from T4's action scenes but the truck chase in T3 was moderately entertaining. The "Terminatrix" thing was absolutely fucking shit though - "lets make it a woman, that way we can make her appear naked at the start. Exciting!

edit: Also there's the whole reason John goes to save his mum in the first place. Arnie says the T1000 will go there to copy her "great, what happens to her?" "typically the target being copied is terminated". So why *wouldn't* he kill her when he has her in the factory at the end. It does make a bit more sense in the directors cut though. Sarah says "Get out of the way john" and in the theatrical he just says "shoot!" in the directors he looks down and sees that her feet are all morphed in to the metal walkway below, then says "shoot.

 

[MYstIC G]

I don't mean to call you stupid here but wtf? Is that a serious question? Why would the T1000 kill Sarah, she stopped being the target once John Connor climbed out of her fanny. He was using her as bait in this scene and the entire film.

He doesn't need her. She can (and given what happens in T2 logically dictates should) be killed by the T1000. We've seen the terminators impersonate voices before, etc, etc.

 

[old.user4556]

Which reminds me, in T2 why the hell did the T1000 say "call to john" why not just kill Sarah there and then? Plot holes everywhere, but at least the old ones made up for it with tension. Something the new one lacked entirely.

That was explained i'm sure - something to do with the T1000 being badly damaged after the frozen nitrogen indicent inflicting a lot of damage to the T1000. They played on this further in the Director's cut when he grabs the rail and he becomes part of the rail, and his boots look the floor when walking up metal stairs. It was suggested/explained that he was unable to imitate voices temporarily, or maybe he was just a sadistic bastard.

 

[nath]

That was explained i'm sure - something to do with the T1000 being badly damaged after the frozen nitrogen indicent inflicting a lot of damage to the T1000. They played on this further in the Director's cut when he grabs the rail and he becomes part of the rail, and his boots look the floor when walking up metal stairs. It was suggested/explained that he was unable to imitate voices temporarily, or maybe he was just a sadistic bastard.

Yeah, edited my previous post - they didn't really hint at the voice thing, but certainly that he was morphing everything he touched. They pretty much removed all those bits in the theatrical with the exception of the little jitter he gets after smashing arnies face with the girder. That shit still makes me cringe.

 

[old.user4556]

I felt sorry for Arnie then.

 

[nath]

More so the look on his face when he gets impaled reaching for the grenade launcher. Oh man, the thumbs up in the molten steel though. And "If a machine, a terminator, can learn the value of human life, maybe we can too". Gah - awesome.