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Sar
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- #151
The principle of P2P is the right of a business to charge for services rendered to its customers.
What do you think it is?
The principle of P2P is the right of a business to charge for services rendered to its customers.
What do you think it is?
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bodhi
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- #152
Pay to Play. As the name suggest, Paying to Play.
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Sar
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- #153
Yes, and now that you've caught up and we're finally on the same page - why is it wrong for a business to charge for services it provides?
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Durzel
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- #154
I think in summary bodhi is basically advocating theft. Let's move on.
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Sawtooth
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- #155
Well I've been away a week. The change over to P2P has happened and what do you know? Where normally there would be packed RA3 server this time of night its actually empty. Well Ive paid my £12 and I cant play anyone on the server. Where's the logic in that.
Unless the others come around I can see this all going down the tubes. Well at least it didnt cost too much and I do appreciate all BW has done to try to keep the service going. Maybe they ought to try having the public ones back and offer subscription payers something else like a BW T-shirt saying " I support BW".
Unless the others come around I can see this all going down the tubes. Well at least it didnt cost too much and I do appreciate all BW has done to try to keep the service going. Maybe they ought to try having the public ones back and offer subscription payers something else like a BW T-shirt saying " I support BW".
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adslrizla
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- #156
Fairly trivial article on the BBC news site - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2223428.stm.
A couple of paragraphs stand out though :
Currently though few companies were making money out of the online version of a game previously played on a single computer or console.
"The internet has educated people to believe that games are advertising sponsored," said Jez San, "it has taken internet gamers a long time to get over the fact that good games are not free"
I think the latter paragraph is a bit premature - although he may be referring to MMORPG's (as usual the BBC is a bit vague).
Bottom line for me is that BW wouldn't be doing this now if there was any other sustainable way of deriving income - and I assume Game are putting some pressure on to increase cash flow. So I've paid my £12 (on top of what a group of us already pay for a type C server) and we'll see what happens.
Either people pay and BW goes on or they don't and it goes tits-up. If it does go tits-up then that puts the other remaining "free" UK GSPs in a stronger position for when they finally do go p2p. I figure I am not going to get a better deal than £12/year and on that basis it is worth taking a punt to see if BW can make this work. If they can't and disappear then I am 100% certain that the next GSP that goes p2p will want a hell of a lot more than £12/year!
A couple of paragraphs stand out though :
Currently though few companies were making money out of the online version of a game previously played on a single computer or console.
"The internet has educated people to believe that games are advertising sponsored," said Jez San, "it has taken internet gamers a long time to get over the fact that good games are not free"
I think the latter paragraph is a bit premature - although he may be referring to MMORPG's (as usual the BBC is a bit vague).
Bottom line for me is that BW wouldn't be doing this now if there was any other sustainable way of deriving income - and I assume Game are putting some pressure on to increase cash flow. So I've paid my £12 (on top of what a group of us already pay for a type C server) and we'll see what happens.
Either people pay and BW goes on or they don't and it goes tits-up. If it does go tits-up then that puts the other remaining "free" UK GSPs in a stronger position for when they finally do go p2p. I figure I am not going to get a better deal than £12/year and on that basis it is worth taking a punt to see if BW can make this work. If they can't and disappear then I am 100% certain that the next GSP that goes p2p will want a hell of a lot more than £12/year!
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bodhi
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- #157
Yes lets. Even tho I think in summary you don't have a clue.
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Sawtooth
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- #158
Well its okay if the service you offer actually is used by people.
Hell its only £12 but I'm starting to get lonely playing praccy on empty RA3 servers.
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bodhi
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- #159
I never said it was. I said it was wrong to pay to play a game you've already paid for.
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caLLous
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- #160
Setup your own non-charging GSP and see how long it lasts, then.
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Sar
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- #161
So now you're advocating BOTH sides of the argument?
Either you don't understand your own point or you don't know what your point is, or even if you have one.
I came at your point using alternate wording, and you advocated my point of view which directly contradicts your own - you say it's wrong to pay to play a game on a service like BW, and I asked you how it was wrong for BW to charge for that.
You say it's not wrong for BW to charge for that service while still maintaining that it's wrong for BW to charge for that service.
Er..
Hello?
Try and figure out what your own point is first before trying to argue it. It helps somewhat.
Edit: Advocate, not condone = doh, only awake
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Sar
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- #162
Subs has been in less than a week - common sense should tell you that it will be a while before player numbers get up to their previous levels again. Not everyone is even aware that BW has introduced subs - I've had to tell several members of my 2 q3 clans why the BW servers have "disappeared", and how to get them back again - so far they've all subbed without problems.
Give it a month at least before complaining about player levels - you need to give it time for people to realise what's happened, why it's happened and to get subbed and playing again. It won't happen immediately.
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Mellow-
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- #163
I believe it is wholey necessary for BarrysWorld to charge for it's service because even if the servers, bandwidth are paid for, the staff who maintain and admin the servers still need paying.
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nath
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- #164
clan whore!!!1
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throdgrain
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- #165
Its going to take a while lads, thats for sure. Just have to pimp as hard as we can I guess
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legendario
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- #166
i've been pimping all day....managed to convince 2 people.
had to offer my body though :/
had to offer my body though :/
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Sar
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- #167
Pffft!
Just call me Vampiro
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Ch3tan
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- #168
If he is a clan whore then what the hell am I? A brothel?
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legendario
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- #169
I dont think theres a word in the english dictionary to describe you
dunno about the arabic one though
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Krazeh
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- #170
why?
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bodhi
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- #171
Originally posted by Sar
So now you're advocating BOTH sides of the argument?
Either you don't understand your own point or you don't know what your point is, or even if you have one.
I came at your point using alternate wording, and you advocated my point of view which directly contradicts your own - you say it's wrong to pay to play a game on a service like BW, and I asked you how it was wrong for BW to charge for that.
You say it's not wrong for BW to charge for that service while still maintaining that it's wrong for BW to charge for that service.
Er..
Hello?
Try and figure out what your own point is first before trying to argue it. It helps somewhat.
Edit: Advocate, not condone = doh, only awake
You are still having problems understanding aren't you. I never even brought BW into my original point. I honestly couldn't give two fucks what BW does, as I don't play online games anymore. I'm pretty sure I've never even brought BW into my point. Other people have, but as I have said repeatedly, I don't give a shit.
You are looking far too deeply into this. I am simply on about the principle of P2P itself. It isn't really that hard to understand.
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Sar
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- #172
One of us certainly is, and it's not me.
You involved BW when you questioned the validity of P2P, which is what this entire thread is about - BW's implementation of P2P.
I know it's not, as I've explained it to you repeatedly, but you seem to avoid answering the questions raised by repeatedly asserting that we don't understand your point.
You fail to see that we do in fact see what point(s) your trying to make, and we/I answer them thoroughly, but because you can't further argue your course of logic you're resorting again and again to the same old mantra: P2P is wrong.
Saying "P2P is wrong" means that you believe that "BW (or any GSP) charging for its service is wrong".
Why can't you understand that? It's patently obvious?
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bodhi
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- #173
You don't get it at all, so you've decided to invent some deeper meaning to what I have said. I'm pretty sure I know what I meant cos I was there when I said it. I never said BW was wrong to charge, and I remember saying that they were probably forced into this by GAME. The point I was making was, BW shouldn't HAVE to go P2P, the cost of the servers should be supplemented by the games publishers/game vendors ie - the ones you've already paid for the game. My main beef is with games like MMORPG's who want 14 quid a month out of your wallet afte the 30-35 quid they've already taken for the game. As the opposition seem quite happy to quote irrelevant examples, I shall use my own.
You buy a can of Pepsi Max. That can is yours. Pepsi then turn round and tell you they want an extra 5p to open it. You'd be pretty annoyed. Which is about as irrelevant as the TV/house/car comparisons, but hey fight fire with fire.
The bottom line is, Computer games are a one-off purchase, and shouldn't incur any running costs. Which is why P2P is wrong.
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Krazeh
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- #174
you don't buy the game tho. you buy a license to use the game, in no way do u actually own the software
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bodhi
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- #175
Fuck off pedant.
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nath
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- #176
That only serves to prove Bodhi's point more. You pay for a license to play the game, and yet you have to pay monthly to play it?
Just for the record though, I personally think paying 30 quid for an online only game then having to pay a monthly fee is shit. It's a little different when it comes to single player games that have multiplayer sides.. hmm.
Actually, you know what? I don't care.
Just for the record though, I personally think paying 30 quid for an online only game then having to pay a monthly fee is shit. It's a little different when it comes to single player games that have multiplayer sides.. hmm.
Actually, you know what? I don't care.
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mr.Blacky
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- #177
What I understand now is: the game designers have to pay for it.
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Sar
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- #178
Finally!
Well look at it realistically - think of the number of GSPs and their servers throughout the world, and you want a publisher to support and pay for or substantially subsidise all those companies costs? That's completely unrealistic and unworkable.
As for MMORPGs, they're a special case - they have full time staff constantly working on them, implementing and creating new content, looking after servers (which they generally run and maintain themselves, so in effect they're a GSP too) which is different from most other games. Most other games only have a small staff working on patches and so on, and rely on servers being hosted by 3rd parties, whereas MMORPG game staff actually have to be available and help players on servers 24 hours a day, servers hosted and run by the MMORPG staff.
That said, most MMORPGs are boring as fuck, I'd rather play a single player RPG tbh, but that's beside the point.
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Lester
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- #179
Originally posted by throdgrain
Its going to take a while lads, thats for sure. Just have to pimp as hard as we can I guess
No don't!
Leave it as it is.
It's like havin a big sweet shop all to yourself
It's our own private goddam KEA practice server, eerrrr X12!
Brilliant.
Now all of you bugger off to Jolt I'll be in doing some gardening in "estate" if you want me.
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Sar
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- #180
Played on Jolt tonight - filled with spamming lamers.
*sigh*
*sigh*