Stop calling RvR end game!

[red_dog]

Now I get as annoyed at the positioning of RvR as the be all and end all of DAoC, although kr0n does have a point in that the backstory of the game setting does involve the denizens of the three realms going out and fighting each other in an attempt to gain control following the death of Arthur. But, and it's an important but, I always thought that one of DAoC's strengths was the fact that if you wanted to do RvR, fine, but if not, there was plenty of other things to do. I came for the RPG elements of the game, although in time I might get more interested/involved in RvR via my guild, but for me that remains the main focus, role playing. However, if i didn't want to get involved in RvR, I would not, and indeed so far have to all intents and purposes have not, needed to get involved in it.

But why do people get so upset when an alternative version of what others get from their own personal DAoC experience is put forward? In particular, why do those people who, for want of a better analogy, play Camelot like it's Quake get defensive when other people like myself say "well actually it's the RPG bit that appeals, rather than the MMO bit"? (And yes, some of that traffic does go the other way) Why can't everyone just enjoy the game, and be glad that there is the opportunity to take very different paths when playing it, rather than all being herded to play it in one particular way?

I notice that most people append their (admittedly RvR biased) comments with 'imo'. Well why not keep that way, rather using your difference of opinion as a stick with which to beat someone else? And obviously the same applies to those who express a dislike of l33t 'fucktards' (interesting phrase there Omniscieous), so let's hear no more about 'endgames' and just revel in the fact that (GOA f-ups aside) we have a great game here that can accomodate so many different types of play and, gods willing, will not have any 'end' at all, but just keep evolving and hopefully getting better...

 

[old.Tohtori]

Stop calling RvR end game!

Yes. Let's call it... Smudging!

 

[Marcus75]

A fresh change for me is to play alts on excal...at the moment I find playing mid is fun but in the future, if I stick with this game, I would like to try to see more of the other two realms as well.

 

[old.Tzeentch]

I tend to notice that 'non-rvr' people tend to whine more and more often than not attempt to flame 'pro-rvr' people, saying they always are elitists, and whatever else.

Funny that

 

[sru]

Originally posted by klavrynd
imo exping is boring as fuck and most people play the game for rvr, which seems to be one of the best developed pvp systems on the mmorpg market nowadays.

Think the key bit there is 'IMO'.

Many I know love the PvE and social aspect ; RvR is just _one_ of the things that make the game enjoyable.

For others RvR is all and they will PL their toons to 50 (often pissing others off as the camp-steal) and that is their choice.

Like some, I do get annoyed with the _assumption_ that everyone plays the game for RvR in emain.

 

[sru]

Originally posted by old.Tzeentch
I tend to notice that 'non-rvr' people tend to whine more and more often than not attempt to flame 'pro-rvr' people, saying they always are elitists, and whatever else.

Funny that

and pro-Rvr people whine about xp being boring and the n00bs who ruin their RvR

 

[Flesh]

Originally posted by old.anubis
all mobs are dumb
most of the enemies are not

Tbh I've seen pygmy goblin's with more intelligence then 90% of daoc's gaming population.

 

[old.Schenton]

I see several people that think most players in DAoC play for the RvR experience. I have also seen many that think the Zergs is something that sux.

The first group of people is totally wrong in assuming that most play this game for RvR only. If that was true then when there is 1500+ players on Prydwen there should be about 1000+ in the frontier fighting and there are not. At most there will be about 2-300 in our frontiers the rest is PvE, Crafting or just chatting whit friends. If all players wanted to only kill other players then the PvP sever would be full every night and not like now 6-800 online. The truth is that RvR is only a part of this game and not even a big part for most of the gamers.

And as for the Zergs. I play DAoC as a MMOG (Massive Multiplayer Online Game) and I expect (and hope) to see lots of people playing at the same time. 8 vs 8 is fun some times but I rather have 50+ vs 50+ fighting in the same place. Those 8 vs 8 is not something a MMOG should have. There are lots of games out there that only can have about 8 vs 8 players why do you play this game if that is the only thing you want to do? I think the more the merrier.

 

[old.Tzeentch]

Originally posted by sru
and pro-Rvr people whine about xp being boring and the n00bs who ruin their RvR

yup.. so what makes one better than the other.. ? ;p

and actually i believe that many are not so interested in the 'journey' of xp'ing and pve and roleplay.. lol. i think there are a few (very few) who DO, but the vast majority of 'non-rvr' folk are those who simply dont enjoy rvr cus they have not experienced what it can be to win regularly due to being part of a team.

what makes it so different from pve anyway? that you have an opponent who can think?

i've met rude people from both rvr guilds and 'normal' guilds, do i reserve the right to start branding them all with the same name?

funny how people believe themselves to be above others in character and personal attributes simply because they are not 'leet' because they don't 'rvr', which in turn makes them more 'adult' and 'wise'.

 

[kr0n]

Well one point spurs into my mind about the "PvE orientated people".

Why play DAoC with rather small and slow leveling course?
I know, you're gonna either say "it's not slow/small" or "'cause I started playing DAoC and now I'm stuck with it"

I'm not saying "fuck off and stop zerging Emain", I'm just asking why do you play the game if you do not like the main part of the whole game? You could be playing Everquest or some other MMORPG with more PvE related things.

I understand that you like to PvE, hang around with friends and do stuff never done before and still RvR a little. But what I don't understand is that you do not take full advantage of the system Mythic has created for us. And I assure most of the "pro-RvR" people tend to do PvE raids Except me but I'm a lazy ass mofo.

Don't get mad from this post, it's not meant as flame.

 

[Jonaldo]

Originally posted by kr0n
I understand that you like to PvE, hang around with friends and do stuff never done before and still RvR a little. But what I don't understand is that you do not take full advantage of the system Mythic has created for us. And I assure most of the "pro-RvR" people tend to do PvE raids Except me but I'm a lazy ass mofo.

And all I have ever said is why do so many people whine about how boring xping is? Surely if it's boring but you *have* to do it to get to RvR levels then it would be much easier and in certain individuals best interests to play a pvp game without the level system.

 

[Generic Poster]

End Game is what you make it.
Anyone saying it's PvE is no better than those who say it's RvR.

Originally posted by old.Tzeentch
I tend to notice that 'non-rvr' people tend to whine more and more often than not attempt to flame 'pro-rvr' people, saying they always are elitists, and whatever else.

Funny that

Everyone whines, infact NP had some of the best whiners in existence and they're not exactly a PvE guild. Camlann is primarily for PvP, take a look at their forum.


Some 'pro-rvr' guilds camp Emain 24/7 and forget they have a home realm(mid/alb). Now the regular guilds end up defending their frontier which, mostly, is a chore. So RvR guilds invite hatred by not putting in their share of work. Is it right, or wrong? Doesn't matter because that's how it is.

 

[old.Tzeentch]

But it's not - take a look at hib excal, or mid excal <dont know about albs, they're generally always been lazy and twattish from their own forums :] but they dont even have proper RvR guilds too>

 

[hercules-df]

Originally posted by old.Tzeentch
But it's not - take a look at hib excal, or mid excal <dont know about albs, they're generally always been lazy and twattish from their own forums :] but they dont even have proper RvR guilds too>

:bore:

 

[eynar]

I finished the game in my first week of playing if my memory serves me right. It's not that hard tbh, once you got familiar with teh twick. And I'm sure we can agree on one thing: "TehTrick4TehWin!!!"

:hat:

 

[oldtimer]

>what makes it so different from pve anyway? that you have an opponent who can think?

Weeeelllll....not always. People fumble with interface, make mistakes or go AFK at the most inopportune moments which eventually leads to easier victories for those of us that manage the interface with machinelike precision. The human AI isnt always as good as you try to make it.

Now why to people who focuses only on one aspect of the game, be it rvr or pve, keep this hostile attitude against each other? Doac is big enough for both to live side by side. What is a bit funny is the try to elevate the rvr aspect as THE reason to play after level 50. Considering that rvr consists of just just 2 gametypes, team deathmatching and capture the flag (relic raids are so rare that we can exclude them from ordinary gameplay), I find it amusing to say it is less shallow than pve. The lack of rvr game play options are just as bad as the lack of quality pve content. Or is the frustration over the delay with the rvr module just because the rvr focused wanted new RAs to play with?

 

[old.Tzeentch]

Originally posted by oldtimer
>what makes it so different from pve anyway? that you have an opponent who can think?

Weeeelllll....not always. People fumble with interface, make mistakes or go AFK at the most inopportune moments which eventually leads to easier victories for those of us that manage the interface with machinelike precision. The human AI isnt always as good as you try to make it.

Now why to people who focuses only on one aspect of the game, be it rvr or pve, keep this hostile attitude against each other? Doac is big enough for both to live side by side. What is a bit funny is the try to elevate the rvr aspect as THE reason to play after level 50. Considering that rvr consists of just just 2 gametypes, team deathmatching and capture the flag (relic raids are so rare that we can exclude them from ordinary gameplay), I find it amusing to say it is less shallow than pve. The lack of rvr game play options are just as bad as the lack of quality pve content. Or is the frustration over the delay with the rvr module just because the rvr focused wanted new RAs to play with?

I think every single PvE encounter has a formulaic way of succeeding in that encounter, RvR does not - true, people make mistakes in RvR, and you win against other people - but it still rises way above the PvE AI (intelligence, that is).

You miss the point - the possiblities for RvR encounters/situation are not preset and determined, they are entirely of your making.

You do not have to go emain - you can organise a systematic keep take in which you might get a response in the hundreds, and put all RvR action for the night in another frontier, creating memorable times for many involved.

However you pretty much always know what will happen in a PvE encounter.

This thing does swing both ways - 'PvE people' have begun more and more to pre-judge people who RvR, and who likes that to happen to them? When you meet and speak to someone who you hardly know who shows you disdain and contempt.

It's not only a one-way issue.

 

[old.Tzeentch]

"Intolerance is the most socially acceptable form of egotism, for it permits us to assume superiority without personal boasting."

Sidney J. Harris.

American journalist.

 

[old.Tzeentch]

(and to own myself)

"The ability to quote is a serviceable substitute for wit."

W. Somerset Maugham

British novelist, playwright.

 

[cadiva]

Originally posted by old.Tzeentch
it is the final state of the game, the pinnacle to where everyone will be playing or doing after they did all the pve

Not true at all. I certainly haven't got my char to lvl 50 just so I can reach what is your own personal DAoC pinnacle, that of RvR.

I'd far rather go out on a big raid to TG or Trollhiem, or Iarnvindur's or even into DF or Dodens because personally I find RvR can be intensely boring and repetative, whereas I know I'll always have a good laugh and a great night out on a dungeon raid with my guild.

Different things float people's boats, what is good for one person isn't good for another and being 'leet' or not in terms of RvR or PvE in this instance is totally irrelevent.

 

[old.Tzeentch]

Working as intended, that phrase everyone knows and hates -

RvR was/is intended to be the endgame I believe.

And wardens were meant to be good fighters, it didn't come true, but thats the primary reason RvR is referred to as the end game - Mythic envisioned it to be so, and still does I think.

 

[Balbor]

oohh, can open... worms everywhere!

just thought i'd through this little thing into the mixer, CO-OP server. Wheres the RvR in the End game?

anyway, i don't think the term RvR guild is being use right, think about it. It means Realm vs Realm guild, but i hear stories all the time of so called RvR guilds getting upset when other member of there realm help them out, or try to provide support for them. Maybe the term GvR would be more suiting.

Come to think of it PvE is also quit wrong as members of other realms are called Enemys, why stuff we Exp on are called mobs, so why not PvM?

For me the best part about RvR are the keep taking and defending. Hopefully next patch will see better open field combat as mezzes are resisted a lot more

 

[Solarius]

Originally posted by Balbor
Come to think of it PvE is also quit wrong as members of other realms are called Enemys, why stuff we Exp on are called mobs, so why not PvM?

Slight misconception here, PvE means Player vs Environment(afaik)

 

[Balbor]

ah that would explain it

 

[old.LandShark]

Originally posted by Balbor
Too many people just want the counter strike experiance with an RPG and i think if mythic had wanted that you wouldn't need to level up. If you play DAoC to RvR they stay that, don't just say its the end game. Maybe if people hadn't of PL and BB there 16 characters to L50 and instead PLAYED the game, maybe they would find the game more enjoyable.

This game is team deathmatch with no "force team balance" option and a protracted levelling grind stuck in to keep you paying sub fees longer. PvE sucks, even for a hardcore roleplayer. RvR is the endgame.

 

[cadiva]

PvE does not suck at all.

Some of the best nights I've had playing this game have been in PvE. Most recently raiding Iarnvidur's Lair in the hope that one day I might make it to the end and see the damn boss

Trollheim raids are fun, as are Tuscaren Glacier raids. The great thing about PvE at level 50 is that it doesn't matter if you die and that, for me, makes the big raids fun. That and the fact I have an absolutely brilliant bunch of guildmates who make every moment a fantastic laugh.

 

[old.Kerosene]

Go on Grasshopper... go on a walkabout... come back when you've attoned for your sins.

There. Do that at lvl 50. Wander around and help the lowbies level.

 

[Beanie]

I enjoy it all...Sorry

 

[old.Tohtori]

*sings*

RVR IS ENDGAME!

RVR IS ENDGAME!

RVR IS ENBOOOM!!

*thud*

Rv...R...isss BOOMBOOMBOOM!!!

Arfgh....


3dd13 31337 IS IN CTRL! EVERY1 DIE!

 

[Riddler]

Originally posted by tildson
PvE was fun

*before SC was implemented
*before all SI-quests came
*when glowing weapons and 90% qual was enough
*when you actually could combine exping and item-farming

RvR was most fun

*In beta, in retail

---------------------

In other words, game was a blast in the beginning

just have to amen to this

beta was such a fucking blast

can think of so many epic moments back then

but anyways...this happens to _all_ online games

to mir players ie. : how big did Bichon Province feel when u first started the game vs after u had played for months?