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Raven

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You can't eat the dollar bill either.

If you can't yet comprehend what the advantages describe above mean in benefit for all of us then meh. Can't do much else. Maybe someone else'll have a go :)

But eff BTC off - maybe read up on ETH and see what other benefits crypto and blockchain can bring.
But you are still to explain how this affects the real world? You know, the 90% (number pulled out of thin air) that essentially live from pay day to pay day. Will it make paying the gas bill easier? Will it make paying the window cleaner easier?

Currency is essentially a token earned through providing a service or a product, from one person or group to another, it's entire concept is a way of deferring effort, I'm a plumber that knows fuck all about electrics, lets exchange services and so on. The fact that the dynamic has changed where people stockpile that token and do fuck all except sell high buy low is neither here nor there in this argument, pounds, dollars, ETH, it makes fuck all difference and if you think it does, I have a lovely bridge that has just come on to the market.

You're arguing for change but just doing what you are told...and making huge sums of money for a handful of people.
 
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Scouse

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But you are still to explain how this affects the real world? You know, the 90% (number pulled out of thin air) that essentially live from pay day to pay day.
It's already part of the real world, just like any investment. And pension portfolios will be on it soon too. And there are plenty of poor people investing in crypto and making small gains because of it - not just in blighty but (as mentioned) in countries where they desparately need non-government backed mediums of exchange.

But frankly, it's not for me to bother explaining it all to you. Spent a bit of time trying, but if you don't want to go out and find out for yourself why a lot of people think it's not a scam, or a ponzi scheme, or shit like that - then I can't force you.

The fact that lots of people are ignorantly buying it isn't crypto's fault. A lot of people ignorantly do a lot of things. Crypto's no different. But I reject your assertion that the little guy is going to get automatically burned. Because I don't see that being the case.
 

Raven

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You haven't actually explained anything though :)

You may well think you have but parroting the brochure isn't explaining.

Please answer the following explicit questions (that have already been asked)

Where does the value come from (apart from supply/demand)

Why does it cost so much power to create, let alone maintain.

Even if it does cost such huge amounts of power, why do you think that power is better spent generating wealth for the few when it could be used for the betterment of mankind? Science, medicine and so on. And please don't say it's better double entry accounting etc because that's already a pretty simple thing and any idiot can follow it through a ledger.
 
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Scouse

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Sorry @Raven - you're on your own. I've already explicitly answered the value point and explained why I'm not getting into it further.

As for the power requirements - for which crypto specifically? BTC, because of the proof of work - it's work done - cracking a very difficult algorithm - therefore the mining analogy works - digging a very big hole to find nuggets requires energy. Same thing.

Other cryptos, different power requirements.

Like I said, I don't have to justify it. I've tried to help out. I've not "quoted from the brochure" (I wasn't aware there was one). If you can't / don't want to take the ideas I've very much explained to you and realise the advantages for yourself then there's bugger all I can do about that.

Sorry m8. Like learning anything - you have to put in the hard work yourself to understand it.
 

Raven

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Sorry @Raven - you're on your own. I've already explicitly answered the value point and explained why I'm not getting into it further.
Where? Please provide a link or quote.

And let's be clear, I am all for a change in the system, as it were, but this isn't it, it's just the same thing dressed differently.

Please explain to me how a guy in a slum can get on board with this in any meaningful way, as opposed to some rich guy sitting on a little golden nugget.
 

Scouse

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Where? Please provide a link or quote.
How is value derived? This is a very esoteric argument which we could devote books to - but the short short version is: Value is what we give things.
Should have maybe highlighted the "we" originally.

Please explain to me how a guy in a slum can get on board with this in any meaningful way, as opposed to some rich guy sitting on a little golden nugget.
Try to look at it this way. If a decentralised non-government controlled medium of exchange becomes the predominant medium of exchange it doesn't matter whether slum-boy is rich or not - he's already onboard in a meaningful way.

Rich is a thing some people will or won't be. Utility is a strength too.


You keep looking at the points in isolation - I listed in one sentence what the whole deal was. When that wasn't enough, I broke the sentence down and gave reasons for each bit. You need to see it as a whole, not just as a get rich quick scheme.

I've taken you to the water Mr Horsey. :)
 

Raven

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You haven't though.

Please, in as simple terms as you can do, with quotes if possible. How does crypto change anything? How does it stop the rich getting richer, how does it make the poor, less poor? What difference does it actually make?

Maybe I am being thick here, please explain.

As far as I can tell from all this open ledger pish is that Elon Musk (for example) bought a load of shit, tweeted about it and then sold it for vastly more than he paid for it, at the cost of chumps...essentially, money in, money out. A couple of hours 'work' by work, I mean laughing a lot.

Sure, that has always been the case...but usually the subject involved is a thing, that either has a use or a value.
 
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Moriath

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You haven't though.

Please, in as simple terms as you can do, with quotes if possible. How does crypto change anything? How does it stop the rich getting richer, how does it make the poor, less poor? What difference does it actually make?

Maybe I am being thick here, please explain.

As far as I can tell from all this open ledger pish is that Elon Musk (for example) bought a load of shit, tweeted about it and then sold it for vastly more than he paid for it, at the cost of chumps...essentially, money in, money out. A couple of hours 'work' by work, I mean laughing a lot.

Sure, that has always been the case...but usually the subject involved is a thing, that either has a use or a value.
When sainsbury start taking it and you dont have to convert it first to eat. Then it will be useful. Until then its a Ponzi scheme where all the little fish are hoping the big guys dont try and cash out
 

Raven

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When sainsbury start taking it and you dont have to convert it first to eat. Then it will be useful. Until then its a Ponzi scheme where all the little fish are hoping the big guys dont try and cash out
Pretty much...but people with cash invested and all that.
 

Deebs

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Best buy those hard drives quickly as prices are now rising due to a new cryptocurrency called Chia.
 

Deebs

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Best buy those hard drives quickly as prices are now rising due to a new cryptocurrency called Chia.
Was reading an article where Chia was burning out consumer 512gb SSDs within 40 days. LOLZ
 

Gwadien

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Dropped by 10% even though they didn't get rid of any, ouch.
 

Raven

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It's OK, when everyone panic sells and the price drops I am sure he will change his mind and hoover them up again, then announce he has changed his mind "due to customer demand" or some shit, driving the price back up again.
 

Deebs

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It is not as if his Teslas are environmently friendly in their creation, operation and disposal. Fucking twat that he is.
 

Scouse

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Tucked away under an image on the BBC article about crypto carbon footprint, I almost missed it because I thought I'd already come to the end of the article:

Supporters of Bitcoin point out that the mainstream financial system, with its millions of workers and computers in air-conditioned offices, also uses large amounts of electricity, which is usually produced with fossil fuels.
 

Deebs

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It is all a load of bollox. The market is recovering, I got an excellent limit buy order filled. Got a few more waiting to go pop (in case America and the stock markets decide to sell more).

Though NANO is bullish as people think Musk is going to announce that as a currency you can buy a Tesla with. LOLZ. ADA as a PoS has mostly recovered and I suspect many more PoS will see quicker recoveries than PoW.
 

Gwadien

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Tucked away under an image on the BBC article about crypto carbon footprint, I almost missed it because I thought I'd already come to the end of the article:
I think Musk is aware that the carbon footprint argument is a bit silly but unfortunately he has investors who only care about optics.
 

Bodhi

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I think Musk is aware that the carbon footprint argument is a bit silly but unfortunately he has investors who only care about optics.
In this case the investors are the US Government. The new administration are not a fan of Bitcoin in the slightest - presumably as they have no control over it - and without US Subsidies Tesla (and probably SpaceX) would cease to exist. Musk knew about the electricity use before he announced Tesla would accept BTC, so seems an intriguing U-turn on the face of it. Especially when a company that specialises in Electric cars start getting worried about using electricity.

I'm guessing he's either been leaned on (stop taking BTC or your subsidies dry up), or has found another way to pump Doge. Far more to this story than meets the eye imo.
 

Scouse

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Yep. It's ego.
 

Embattle

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Selling Bitcoin helped Tesla meet its revenue target, in reality Tesla have yet to make a profit from the cars they make because even when they have made a profit it has been down to selling green credits to other manufacturers.

I still believe we are in for some more inflationary pain, this chip and component shortage is going to drive up the price of so many products.
 

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