Stealther balance what would you change?

[censi]

No more QQ about mincer from stealthers...since most mincers will be running in a normal group again. Btw...any stealther attacking a stealthed mincer these days KNOW what he is facing since you see them standing miles away anyway.

roughly translated. Its ok for mincer to be "relativly" OP because u dont have to attack them.

sorry but thats bollacks.

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

Stealthers r all fine

Remove mincer from the stealth battle then its fair..

Alb infils are sorted if duo'd with a mincer, Only a gimp can miss pa chain when mincer uses their instant 9 sec stun

Alb have 3 stealth classes all OP

Hib got 2 Both good

Mid got 2 but short end of the stick ... Only skilled players that play hunter and sb stand a chance vs other realm stealthers

Sbs can get purge3 then they have remedy aswell, so annoyed by ppl thinking remedy is teh OPed. Sbs with decent EQ, can take Urizen for exampel they have around 2200-2300 hits.

My own shade got 1903 hits, remedy takes 191 of thise hits wich means i land at 1709 hits, and a str/con debuffed sb lands around 1700 hits (-450ish hits) hence remedy isnt that fkn OPed.
Sbs got more str then shades so beeing a blade shade ihave to get str5 to be on pair with thier str at only str3 ( str3-5 is alot of points... 25 i think, while purge2-3 is 15 points )

Seems like infils got the short end of the stick here, but considering they have more spec points thus giving them higher WS ( whatever WS effect nowdays so many tests been done arguing tis worthless or essential so i donno ) - Point beeing Infils seems to be alright.
And hunters, nothing wrong with a hunters they do fine - only unfair thing with them is that they have shorter bow range and faster bows.

Now to my own ideas of changes:

I belive MoS is harming the stealth arena quiet alot, MoS should be capped at mos3, more then that is just abusive.
Minstrels are OPed, I got one and I know. (943 AF with GoV proc )
I belive non-stealthers got to mutch anti stealther fluff, iam thinking BTs, intercept pets, ml9+juggernaut pets, brittles, af charges... list could go on.

Other then that i think its quiet okey atm.
Tho on a side note i think relics affect the rvr too mutch. When albs had relics i got hited by infils for 450 dmg now i hit sbs for 450 dmg and infils for 400+, thats too mutch for my taste.

 

[rvn]

didnt your mammy wake you up today?????
>>pa 9 secs
>>get to choose 1000 dmg, or af debuff (good vs tanks ;p)

huhuhuhu

what ?, PA atm is totally worthless. unless you hvae 3 relics, or person is sitting.

 

[rvn]

Sbs can get purge3 then they have remedy aswell, so annoyed by ppl thinking remedy is teh OPed. Sbs with decent EQ, can take Urizen for exampel they have around 2200-2300 hits.

My own shade got 1903 hits, remedy takes 191 of thise hits wich means i land at 1709 hits, and a str/con debuffed sb lands around 1700 hits (-450ish hits) hence remedy isnt that fkn OPed.
Sbs got more str then shades so beeing a blade shade ihave to get str5 to be on pair with thier str at only str3 ( str3-5 is alot of points... 25 i think, while purge2-3 is 15 points )

Seems like infils got the short end of the stick here, but considering they have more spec points thus giving them higher WS ( whatever WS effect nowdays so many tests been done arguing tis worthless or essential so i donno ) - Point beeing Infils seems to be alright.
And hunters, nothing wrong with a hunters they do fine - only unfair thing with them is that they have shorter bow range and faster bows.

Now to my own ideas of changes:

I belive MoS is harming the stealth arena quiet alot, MoS should be capped at mos3, more then that is just abusive.
Minstrels are OPed, I got one and I know. (943 AF with GoV proc )
I belive non-stealthers got to mutch anti stealther fluff, iam thinking BTs, intercept pets, ml9+juggernaut pets, brittles, af charges... list could go on.

Other then that i think its quiet okey atm.
Tho on a side note i think relics affect the rvr too mutch. When albs had relics i got hited by infils for 450 dmg now i hit sbs for 450 dmg and infils for 400+, thats too mutch for my taste.

m yes because remedy = free, purge3 = free oO.....

and also you cant reapply dots / str/con debuffs, diseases once they have purged ?............

remedy is overpowered, hence you are clueless, fight someone with no poisons 10 times, then fight him with poisons... and see the differance yourself.

and also the strength argument, its only completely gimped to specc str weapons in the first place, SBS are forced to it, nightshades can specc pierce WS and still get a off evade stun w/o wasteing alot points in weapon specc.

only thing sb is stronger is vs people that cant debuff. (and also str weaponskill will allways have less than str/dex, due to rogues gaining dex as primary stat.)

sbs also get the worst weapon dmg table to face if they dont use legendary weapons, both nightshades and rangers being resistant, infil/scout/minstrel neutral. a slash ns/infil has specced it to be gimped, or only attack hunters as optimal targets. (not optimal if they have pd)

 

[Alein-Pain]

SBS GOT 7 sec stun in anytime combo (2nd style) just some examples ...

are u insane Sbs got 7 sec stun in a 2 chain and stun on second style
get facts strait befor u go off like that

 

[illu]

Sbs can get purge3 then they have remedy aswell, so annoyed by ppl thinking remedy is teh OPed. Sbs with decent EQ, can take Urizen for exampel they have around 2200-2300 hits.

My own shade got 1903 hits, remedy takes 191 of thise hits wich means i land at 1709 hits, and a str/con debuffed sb lands around 1700 hits (-450ish hits) hence remedy isnt that fkn OPed.
Sbs got more str then shades so beeing a blade shade ihave to get str5 to be on pair with thier str at only str3 ( str3-5 is alot of points... 25 i think, while purge2-3 is 15 points )

Seems like infils got the short end of the stick here, but considering they have more spec points thus giving them higher WS ( whatever WS effect nowdays so many tests been done arguing tis worthless or essential so i donno ) - Point beeing Infils seems to be alright.
And hunters, nothing wrong with a hunters they do fine - only unfair thing with them is that they have shorter bow range and faster bows.

Now to my own ideas of changes:

I belive MoS is harming the stealth arena quiet alot, MoS should be capped at mos3, more then that is just abusive.
Minstrels are OPed, I got one and I know. (943 AF with GoV proc )
I belive non-stealthers got to mutch anti stealther fluff, iam thinking BTs, intercept pets, ml9+juggernaut pets, brittles, af charges... list could go on.

Other then that i think its quiet okey atm.
Tho on a side note i think relics affect the rvr too mutch. When albs had relics i got hited by infils for 450 dmg now i hit sbs for 450 dmg and infils for 400+, thats too mutch for my taste.

Hmmmmmm.

^^ I agree with Rvn. - Remedy stops everything, except poisonspike. My opening Str/Con debuff, my dot, my changed weapon dot, the proc on my GoV, any poisons that are re-applied. When Remedy is up, if the Shadowblade is Str/con poisoned, the fight ends up being very hard, especially if purge is not up :/ It IS OP'd, and with the 5 minute re-use timer, it is up for many fights.

"str3 ( str3-5 is alot of points... 25 i think, while purge2-3 is 15 points )" - str5 is 34points I think, purge3 is 30 points. Not sure what you were comparing here :>

Bladeshades that re-apply poisons are a Shadowblades worst nightmare, and there is really not much we can do about it when Remedy is up.

Oli - Illu

 

[Tiztla]

agree something has to be done with MoS , but the 2 most annoying things is

1. Remedy : free purge 3 , enough said
2. Diamondback at 25 pierce is op , atleast change it to 44

actually i agree that sb are NOT gimped, the only sad about them is that they need to have a good toasc suit and ml to compete

regarding Infils , well i can compete with my infil and he has af 92 armor on some parts and 95 qual lgm , yes i loose about 70 % 1 v 1 duels on him , i had my sb in almost the same RoG armor and i lost about 95% of my fights , sad but true that is the difference

 

[GrIrcSpammer]

aye lets make remedy a ra for all stealthers so i can get passives @ rr25

wtf m8s ;f

 

[Tiztla]

yes ofc it is a rr5 ability but still op

 

[censi]

lots of comments about hunters and bow range etc...

afaik

scout has 80 more range than ranger who has 80 more range than hunter

do /groundset 80

one huge bow advantage hunters get is they can go real top draw spear spec but still have enough points to get 35 bow. mellee rangers got like 13 bow. melee hunters can still be decent archers. Or in other words hybrid hunters are potentially just as devestating as melee rangers.... (not fully true due to some draw backs of spear styles and duel wield advantages)

Hunters need no relative love to the other archer classes. hand on heart they are fine. Same for scouts but u HAVE to odopt a different playstyle with scouts thats less foolhardy shall we say. ones that adopt this playstyle are just as effective as other archer classes, ones eager to dick swing or tango up close with classes are not playing the class effectivly (unless they are choosing the path of melee scout which is non effective but potentially more fun)

 

[-Freezingwiz-]

nerf all stealthers so bad that all quit and play a decent class insted of adding all the time :touch:

 

[Eeben]

So many smart ppl here saying remove stealth from mincers because they are so op (might be true)

1: What you want us to do with no stealth? give us same resist buffs as friars but what is best in a fg? a frair with bg an grapple or mincer with fz on 15 min timer?

2: Everybody says mincers are so op but why does ppl keep attacking them then? I got no chance of finding a stealther atm (18 stealth) but still i got no problems getting fights because ppl attacks me..

3: Imo mincers are fine just some of the other classes that could use some love ..

4:A archer or assasin class should not have a hard time takeing down a caster that is just wrong...

5: Rangers: not that hard for me but then again imo a archer class is not a melee class so ofc they should get owned in melee same goes for hunters...

6: Sb's need more love tbh .. Most of the time sb's are free rps for me but ns's are really hard when played well.. have to use must of my funky stuff to win also have to use heat lgm on them because malice is not much use vs remedy...

 

[Fenderon]

this isn't stealthers-only, but it's something I'd like to see..

make potions stack. "20 strong elixir of healing"


edit:
arcofirme: I wasn't going to pop you infront of WL (didn't know BD was there).. but since you started drawing bow, I assumed it was at me and used PA. self defence, sorry..

 

[Jox]

The roleplaying-feeling died with NF, thats all I can say.

I find it hard to accept all those massive stone-bridges(must have costed a fortune to build) that binds all islands together, dosent feel ok from a tactical point of view either.

I can swallow lurikeens, fireballs, trolls, but those bridges...

Give back old Emain and old ras, and the pad, especially the pad(the punishment for death in NF is way too light).

And give sbs access to hammers.

I want to hammer some infils n shades.

That would be great stuff.

 

[Xajorkith]

lots of comments about hunters and bow range etc...

afaik

scout has 80 more range than ranger who has 80 more range than hunter

You're wrong.

Hunter 2000
Ranger 2100
Scout 2200

Now add 10% ToA range
Hunter 2200
Ranger 2310
Scout 2420

Difference between Scout and Hunter is 220
If Braggart arrows or Epic Bow is used gap is even bigger.

A hunter cannot hit a scout who is stood on a level 10 tower
A hunter cannot hit (or is very difficult) a scout who is stood on one bridge tower and the hunter on the other. Both Scout and ranger can do these things. So in my case if I'm attacking a level 10 tower or on a bridge my 1000+ spec points into bow is useless.

That 220 range loss means us Hunters are much closer to those enemies who can hit us back, NearSight, Sorc Mez etc, so again more of a disadvantage to us.

Secondly Scout and Ranger have much slower bows which improves front load damage. Of course CritShotting from stealth with a slow bow at another archer reduces time in melee.

If you think the range bonus is insignificant then I'm sure you wouldn't mind hunters getting the same range as scouts.

Secondly a hunter is penalised in bow supposedly because Hunter is better at Melee, but as we all know a Melee Ranger will always beat a Melee Hunter, and even a high MoB Melee Scout will give the hunter a run for is money.

DW is superior to 2h and S+S.
The answer to the Shield and DW was the 2h and a Pet, but half the time the pet is useless. I can’t be summoned when Mezzed, it’s on a 2 min timer, it only has a tether range of 1500, and it doesn’t traverse the water plane… Of course Shield and DW always works! The Hunters Wolf doesn't affect Evade rate though it gives 10% bonus against Scouts block rate,

Both the Scout and Ranger have access to much superior weapons Battler and Malice (an I win artefact) are awesome and yet Hunter has no good spear artefact, even the new champion spear is crap (too fast).

It is completely clear that Scout is the best archer and the Ranger is next and the Hunter last.
In Melee it’s clear Ranger is top dog and Scout and Hunter battle it out for bottom place.
For a ranger to say a Hunter is fine is quite stupid, we need Shrewsbury or Guten or some r2-r6 hunters to say they are fine…

 

[censi]

2: Everybody says mincers are so op but why does ppl keep attacking them then? I got no chance of finding a stealther atm (18 stealth) but still i got no problems getting fights because ppl attacks me..

5: Rangers: not that hard for me but then again imo a archer class is not a melee class so ofc they should get owned in melee same goes for hunters...

all the other points were good but these 2 are flawed.

again point 2 is the "its ok to be OP you dont have to attack me". That stance is wrong. Stealthers see another stealth they go for it it. Thats why they play. If we are forced not to attack other targets on the grounds you cant win thats when its time to think about calling it a day.

point 5 Snipe orientated archer stand even less chance V mincer. the Arrows do pretty crappy damage you will get 4 shots max and thats assuming u see mincer burning unstealthed. After those 4 shots which do bugger all damage your stunned and toast basically. As a melee ranger with all my timers up ill have a good fooking crack at any mincer I see. Ill certainly force him to play some of his cards at best but inevitably ill loose. I can accept this but its still fooking annoying to loose to someone when I play my best hand and its some average fooking player drops me with the standard mincer grind routine.

I dont actually think theres to much wrong with mincers. I have said many times its archers and assasins that are the weaker classes. Im actually pling up a mincer on prwd to play when the ranger dings rr10.

There is though something really fooked up with albion having 3 stealther classes. This imbalance has existed for so long though we just accept it.

Removing stealth from mincer will never happen and shouldnt ever happen. It would just shaft too many players that picked a mincer because it was a stealther.

 

[censi]

220

do a groundset 220.

that range advantage is fooking tiny. Scouts should have this tbh.

 

[Minimac]

The best thing is a solo stealther jumping me. ..
Always resulting in a good close fight with me 90% of the time winning

 

[rvn]

lots of comments about hunters and bow range etc...

afaik

scout has 80 more range than ranger who has 80 more range than hunter

do /groundset 80

one huge bow advantage hunters get is they can go real top draw spear spec but still have enough points to get 35 bow. mellee rangers got like 13 bow. melee hunters can still be decent archers. Or in other words hybrid hunters are potentially just as devestating as melee rangers.... (not fully true due to some draw backs of spear styles and duel wield advantages)

Hunters need no relative love to the other archer classes. hand on heart they are fine. Same for scouts but u HAVE to odopt a different playstyle with scouts thats less foolhardy shall we say. ones that adopt this playstyle are just as effective as other archer classes, ones eager to dick swing or tango up close with classes are not playing the class effectivly (unless they are choosing the path of melee scout which is non effective but potentially more fun)

then again a hybrid specced ranger is > a melee specced hunter in melee.

oh and a wellplayed high rr ranger should be the hardest stealther target for a minstrel to fight.

 

[Xajorkith]

do a groundset 220.

that range advantage is fooking tiny. Scouts should have this tbh.

I can't believe you keep missing the point.

One class being immune from the other is a huuuuuuuuuge advantage, the range value is completely irrelevant, it could be 1 pixel, but that advantage is huge if it is that 1 pixel that prevents you EVER hitting a fellow archer on a bridge or in a tall tower while your fellow archer can ALWAYS hit you in the reverse situation.

This situation would be equivelant to saying to Nighshades... you no longer have Climb Wall ability and leaving the ability with SB and infils.....

This is unfair imho.

 

[Minimac]

they make up for lack of range in other departments (so to speak)

 

[Kelio]

they make up for lack of range in other departments (so to speak)

yeah, they have HUGE ****s

 

[tazzbe]

roughly translated. Its ok for mincer to be "relativly" OP because u dont have to attack them.

sorry but thats bollacks.

Lol no..thats not what i'm saying. The fact is...YOU choose to fight em...win or lose..whatever the result is. A mincer today will only be attacked and doesn't see it inc cause of MoS. So a) remove MoS b) remove mincer from stealthclasses...they are the walking bait these days, not the hunter like the rest of them.

I never said mincer isn't a good stealthclass, and probably when well played the hardest of em all. But i'm sure plenty of stealthers out there do own a mincer (at least since i'm back i'm looking at the ground a lot more anyway...but thats just me soocking probably).

 

[Ging]

yeah, they have HUGE ****s

Rings?

 

[Glottis]

I can't believe you keep missing the point.

One class being immune from the other is a huuuuuuuuuge advantage, the range value is completely irrelevant, it could be 1 pixel, but that advantage is huge if it is that 1 pixel that prevents you EVER hitting a fellow archer on a bridge or in a tall tower while your fellow archer can ALWAYS hit you in the reverse situation.

This situation would be equivelant to saying to Nighshades... you no longer have Climb Wall ability and leaving the ability with SB and infils.....

This is unfair imho.

You miss the point...
Rangers having dual wield versus my shield is unfair...
Hunters having a pet (same as dual wield) is unfair...
Classes are not meant to be the same, otherwise why role Midgard? Just to be a complete ass?
@Censi: a scout often has to avoid certain fights. So it makes perfect sense that SB's would avoid a fight with a minstrel, if they cannot win.
But they can allways win, as they are never alone...
Regards, Glottis

 

[Thorwyn]

One class being immune from the other is a huuuuuuuuuge advantage, the range value is completely irrelevant, it could be 1 pixel, but that advantage is huge if it is that 1 pixel that prevents you EVER hitting a fellow archer on a bridge or in a tall tower while your fellow archer can ALWAYS hit you in the reverse situation.

Xajorkith, just reverse the situation.
Scout and Hunter meet in open field. Hunter sets his pet on Scout. Result: Hunter is immune to Scout arrows because Scout gets interrupted/has to take care of the pet, while the Hutner can still fire arrows at the Scout. Hunters have the ability to completely eliminate the most important combat segment of Scouts in the open field.
It´s all situational, sometimes one class has the advantage, next time it´s the other way round.

 

[censi]

yer but like scouts are pretty much arrow immune which even though doesnt sound like much means that are the kings of arrows slingers.

in a stealthed V stealthed situation they are the worst stealther ofc.

 

[Sauruman]

yer but like scouts are pretty much arrow immune which even though doesnt sound like much means that are the kings of arrows slingers.

in a stealthed V stealthed situation they are the worst stealther ofc.

Scouts so called "immunity" to arrows is gone since 1.74 .

 

[Xajorkith]

Xajorkith, just reverse the situation.
Scout and Hunter meet in open field. Hunter sets his pet on Scout. Result: Hunter is immune to Scout arrows because Scout gets interrupted/has to take care of the pet, while the Hutner can still fire arrows at the Scout. Hunters have the ability to completely eliminate the most important combat segment of Scouts in the open field.
It´s all situational, sometimes one class has the advantage, next time it´s the other way round.

Err no.

Scout and hunter in open field.
Scout uses a 5.8 critshot and spanks the hunter hard
Hunter casts pet
Hunter selects Pet attack <enemy is too far away>
Another arrow spanks hunter
Hunter selects Pet attack <enemy is too far away>
Another arrow spanks hunter,
Hunter selects Pet attack <Your pet sprints to attacker>
Hunter dead.

Glottis what you on about? Comparing shield (9s anytime stun, engage, guard etc) v DW V Pet is stupid, they all have there strengths and weakness.

Saying one of the three realms archers shouldn't turn up to attack tall towers or camp bridge towers is hardly comparable. When I last looked 25 of the 32 Albion towers/Keeps were level 10/9..... Not much fun for an attacking hunter.

Anyway if Mythic make the towers shorter and the river a bit narrower all three archers should be happy bunnies.

 

[Glottis]

Glottis what you on about? Comparing shield (9s anytime stun, engage, guard etc) v DW V Pet is stupid, they all have there strengths and weakness.

Saying one of the three realms archers shouldn't turn up to attack tall towers or camp bridge towers is hardly comparable. When I last looked 25 of the 32 Albion towers/Keeps were level 10/9..... Not much fun for an attacking hunter.

Anyway if Mythic make the towers shorter and the river a bit narrower all three archers should be happy bunnies.

You are saying you want a toon that is uber in range and in melee.
I'm pointing out that a scout having a VERY slight range advantage is more than cancelled out by the far superior melee abilities of a ranger....
Regards, Glottis