Stealther balance what would you change?

[Chronictank]

General Stealthers:
-Remove vanish completely
And when they have removed vanish
-Give an ability to hit targets through bt & brittles in CT line (preferably 50ct like was said earlier)
-Remove Mez Poison/Put a reuse timer on it
-Make FZ purgable and affected by det
-Give mincers the ability to spec 2h
if given 2h
-Remove IP from mincers
-Reduce timer on sb RR5 ability/change it
-Increase remedy timer to 15 mins

 

[Vipr]

Most important 2 i can think of that really effect stealther rvr.


1) Remove Stealth from Minstrel
2) Bring Infil Spec line points inline with SB & NS

 

[Jimmi]

-Remove Mez Poison/Put a reuse timer on it

It's on a 30 (THIRTY!) minutte timer atm m8...

 

[Castus]

well i`d like a yellow con dog, a decent charm insect level(what is that ability actually for?) Mincers - stealth and a rr5 ability on same level as remedies.

 

[Minimac]

It's on a 30 (THIRTY!) minutte timer atm m8...

sHURRUP Timmmmmmmy

oops i mean Jimmy

j/k

 

[Jimmi]

a decent charm insect level(what is that ability actually for?)

Never ever ever ever used it on my hunter does it even work !?

 

[Castus]

Yes m8 but only for comedy value eg we charm those faeirie frogs near Alb bridge and set them after casters
Oh and there was the infamous BattlePigs zerg at Dun Bolg 1 night

 

[Twinky]

instead of a s/c debuff, why not have a weapon skill debuff..
give sb's ability to spec thrust
remove hard cap on qui
remove remedy, or make sb/inf's rr5 abilitys as good
hunter with chain and evade 1-2 (nice one)
give same amount spec pts on sb and ns as infils
snare on pa sounds nice!
fix mos
if u use vanish u should be unpoppable for a few sec.
and i said givf ip2 to inf/ns/sb, but that is prolly to OP, so givf ip1
(just so if u get a add, u might have the ability to survive)

 

[Vodkafairy]

1- give infils 2.2x specpoints
2- move dragonfang to a lower level style (29-34 orso)
3- remove conc based spec af and haste from hib/alb bots, want the bonus? put effort in and use the charges.
4- give left axe the same mechanics as cd/dw
5- give cd a .7/.8 gr anytime style at high end cost
6- give tornado and comeback both an attack speed debuff
7- remove stealth from mincers and give them the tri-resist chants if they dont have them already, so albs can have 16% cold/heat/matter resists in group without a friar
8- give PA a short snare and make the damage a certain percentage of the enemies max hitpoints, for example at 50+20 cs, PA will do 50% of their max hp in damage, maybe affected by armor absorb, and absorb only. either that, or give PA a very very high damage bleed. or hmm, what about giving PA a celerity proc on the person that used the style, that goes under the melee speed cap? would only last for a short while though, like 5-10 seconds? fits with the idea of a bloodthirsty assassin
9- change the enervating poisons so they debuff a percentage of the opponents weaponskill, rather then str/con only. or change the debuff to str/dex
10- remove remedy (duh)
11- make dex or str affect nightshade spell damage, or tripple the delve (honestly, that still isnt much dmg).
12- allow kobold sb's to have sword as thrust damage

cant think of any more atm

 

[moik]

-Make FZ purgable and affected by det

Yes that would balance things out, really, especially in FG fights when you can't really chose who you FZ if there's a BGer and a BGed target. Hitting the BGer resulting in a 0.1 sec FZ would be great!

I liked the "make the person riding the FZ immune to damage" idea more, while making the reuse a bit shorter - to make it counter moc in fg fights and not having too big impact (but still not a worthless ability) in stealth RVR.

 

[Glottis]

Stealthers r all fine

Remove mincer from the stealth battle then its fair..

Alb infils are sorted if duo'd with a mincer, Only a gimp can miss pa chain when mincer uses their instant 9 sec stun

Alb have 3 stealth classes all OP

Hib got 2 Both good

Mid got 2 but short end of the stick ... Only skilled players that play hunter and sb stand a chance vs other realm stealthers

Are you taking crack?! Smoking dope?! Heroin addict?!
So a scout is OP compared to a dual wielding ranger?!
WTF are you on about, sprouting complete and utter crap...
How is a scout OP versus a healer (instant mezz....), OP versus a whorelock, OP versus a SM with 3 brittleguards and an intercepting pet...
OP versus a Bonedancer?
OP versus a SB? OP versus a hunter who uses a pet and hits you for 300-400 each round...
Damn, some people are so fecking retarded.
Some people only talk about stealthgame, and then conveniently forget how Albs are fecked silly in the non stealther game, have some decent classes (minstrel is uber, maybe once rr8+ and not jumped by 2-3 sb's who purge...)
in stealth, and all you tart do is whine...
Regards, Glottis

 

[Thlauni]

From Ranger (bow) point of view

Make it wortwhile to be a bow ranger. As it is now, once u hit high RR your actually better as a melee ranger.

Suggested changes
- Fix shooting speed. Why is bow on a capped quick, when spells are on a non capped dex?
- Allow for uninterruptable shooting. Why can casters throw spells at up to 80% of normal value uninterruptable, when we get interrupted when someone sneezes. Heck we even get a rapid fire ability, that lets us shoot faster, but for an equal percent damage reduction, though still interruptable.
- For rangers we dont need to fix brittle guards and such, as it is a choice for us, since we can get the Trueshot RA, which blows right through them things, at least I think so.
- Do something about volley. It is a fun thing when bored, but servers no real purpose as it is now. Why not let us do a real volley e.g. let us loose all 5-6 arrows in one go. Allowing for hitting same target more than once.
- IP - I have had IP2 and I loved it, but not really sure if thats what archers are all about. So could factor in if a tradeoff is needed balance wise.
- Bows- I want bows with other damage than the standard arrows T/S/B. Either allow for elemental bows overriding arrows, or a combo where u need elemental bow to use some special arrows or something.
- Damage. Not sure if we need to up the damage, but either more damage or get us an uninterruptable ability or remove quick cap. Right now I am out dps'ed by any mage regardles of what I do unless I insta kill him, which I do 1 out of a 1000 tries if lucky.

Remember all of this is from an archer/ranger perspective. We are ranged attackers, not melee fighters as such and we are not really both either, should be one or the other.

 

[Ging]

As the "main" utility line of assasins, have chance to penetrate bladeturn grow with points put into Crit line. This would be along the same lines of bow spec where at 50 bow Crit shot has 100% penetrate. This would "force" assassins to spec high in Crit spec for this ability. I would also like Crit to have a side opening stun style from stealth with a chain.

Increase poison spike rut to 10/15 min and decrease mezz poisen to 15min rut.

oh and fucking nerf buffed SM pets intercept, im still not sure how an SM pet can intercept a blow from a stealthed opponent when the assasin only becomes visable at the point of the hit landing. Wouldnt be so bad if the intercept gave same dmg on pets as if it was a player but nooooo wanky pet steps in front and takes the blow you hit bloody pet for 25 dmg......

 

[Gear]

Give high crit spec assasins (preferably 45+) 90% ability to PA someone through brittle guards. Same idea (to hit this time) for 45+bow archers. Soloing mages is a redicilous concept anyway.

Give stealth classes the same hp per con as tanks (actually do that to everyone).

Give safe fall to everyone or allow them to purchase it as an RA.

Resist buffs should be group only and fall after disband

Remove mincer insta stun and up the timer on their DDs.

And as a final thing that I'd like to see happening all around the table, when someone is not on 100% hp, should have an at least 80% CC reduction (slam and melee stuns excluded from that as well as the mezz poison)

 

[Earath]

lots of nice posts here, Censi & VF both got it right on the money for me.

I especially like the up PA damage and add a short duration snare, its hard enough to hit a PA without getting the 'xxx not in range' when trying to land a CD as it is.
LA should definately work on the DW/CD mechanics, even with the LA nerf many moons ago, you still get hit 9/10 by the off-hand and the damage soon racks up.
I agree infs should have spec pts reduced, its too easy to get an effective 50 across the board at low RR.
Vanish should either be fixed so opponents immediately lose target when it is activated, or removed altogether.
RR5 abilities need an overhaul, or Remedy needs an increase on reuse timer.
Make FZ'ed opponents damage immune whilst riding.

I'll freely admit i know sod all about archer classes and will bow to the many voices of experience on that front, excellent thread guys - 5 stars

 

[UriZeN]

1.make remedy users immune ONLY to dots and debuff or put it on a 15min timer
2.give 2.5 spec points to scouts
3.make pa penetrate brittles
4.remove vanish or put no disarm timer in vanish3
5.make shadowstrike usable while moving and more accurate
6.reduce the prep timer on assasination to 10secs
7.remove stealth from mincers
8.give hunters evade5
9.remove stealth pet tracking
10. givf back dualist reflexes

thats all i can think of....

 

[Nemo]

1. Timer on Remedy 15min
2. Remove vanish as RA and give vanish1 to us when we hit RR2L?. Make it like a BT that is 100% immune against everything on a 1.5sec-timer (that should prolly sort out the fast castingspeed) Only time vanish is good is when there's a incomming caster after a fight. (Sometimes buggs even then)
3. FZed person cant be targetted, (only pbaed? - then it's not affecting fg vs fg-Fights)
4. Messpoison should remain in backpack when logging of, or lower RUT
5. Give us dex/con poison
6. Remove stealth pet tracking

 

[Phibe]

all ppl whining on infs having 2.5x spec points , BUT we have to spec 50 thrust for example to get the ONLY available stun style , while hibs have 4 sec side positional stun , and a similar style to dragonfang at 25 pierce , givf infs df at 25 thrust and u can lower spec points , but this is ridiculous ... sbs got 7 sec stun in anytime combo (2nd style) just some examples ...

not to start with remedy and all that , imo dont put it on 10 min timer ... just remove it completely or give it to all assassin types at like 30 min recast

just even out the rr5 abilities and nerf mincer power vs other stealthers and we r fine imo , pet tracing while stealthed is another good point ... but thats it, rest is fine!

(cba to argue about WLs and the moc lifetapping classes, its just the way it is and those are avoidable mostly)

 

[xxManiacxx]

Change armor tables to slash vurn or neutral to all leather
Cap MoS at MoS3
Change heat vurn to 10%
Put remedy on 15min timer
Remove all "in range" and "in view" pre-reqs on a successull shadowstrike
Give Shadowblade a 5s stun in axe or sword line from evade

Those I can think of right now.

 

[xxManiacxx]

sbs got 7 sec stun in anytime combo (2nd style) just some examples ...

First is not an anytime combo. It´s second in chain in the evade chain.

The problem with FG is twofold.

1: U must land both CB and FG for the stun
2: 95% of the time u are unable to spam CS evade chain which have much higher growth rate after sucessfull stun.

 

[Xajorkith]

From Ranger (bow) point of view
Suggested changes

- Allow for uninterruptable shooting.

You mean like the level 45 bow ability Sureshot?

From a Hunter Point of view.
1) Give them chain back, increase level of the pet or give evade 5.
2) Give them access to Malice (the other six stealtehers can use it.)
3) If you've purged one form of Crowd Control, then you should be immune to all forms of CC for a short period, I hate the Stun, Mez, Root, Snare stuff....I play the game to play not stand around doing nothing.
4) Make maximum CC length 60 seconds.
5) Make NearSight 20 seconds only.
6) Allow hunter pet to traverse water / land
7) Allow hunter pet to track enemies further than tether range.
8) Either make level 10 towers shorter or increase Hunter bow range.
9) Either make bridges shorter or increase Hunter bow range.
10) Either disallow AE CC affecting a stealthed stealther or allow purge not to break stealth.
11) Give Trueshot free to archers as compensation for brittles.
12) Increase volley range to 2800

 

[Sauruman]

bad start be serious come on.

ill get ball rolling.

Remove camo
remove detect hidden
remove pet tracking stealth targets
up remedy timers to 10 mins
increase PA damage
make PA also snare for 2 sec duration to facilitate PA chain. landing CD is has become like ridiculously hard. PA is a skilled manover but doing the full line should only be dependent on landing the PA and completing the chain not like having to hit sprint or use cripling poison.
rework crit show
remove quick cap or bow draw times
do summin about mincers
give SB str/dex debuffs
lower FZ to 5 minute timer but make FZ'd target damage immune while surfing the wave
make mezz poison reuse on 20 min timer
make sure vanish works

Don't agree with fz thing. Nor increase PA dmg. Whats the point of fz if u can't do dmg if u use it ? ok theres a point if u wanna remove a add, but for a a 1vs1 it would suck hard. imo:

- Remove dual wielding penaltys to scouts.
- Nerf assassins, specially SHADOWBLADES p )

Thats about it...oh....give scouts dual wield with shield too!

 

[rvn]

make pa a 9sec stun, with no additional dmg, increase rib separation dmg so it does ~1000

rib sep changed to chain off PA.

make creeping death a 250 armor debuff and chains after PA.

get to choose 1000 dmg, or af debuff (good vs tanks ;p)

give sb's str/dex ws

make so debuffs dont remove hps once they drop off (ie someone looseing 30% hps after str/con debuff left him)

remove dw penaltys vs shield, but harder arch to block if someone runs thru (so you have to make sure you have your oponent infront of you, right now you can still block if hes inside you, and block fairly well with just ./face.

make zephyr a 1000 range knockback thing, takes 1sec to "fly" thru the air, and you can block, and cast spells that are insta.

give all other classes a 5min reuse RA that gives you increased stealth for 15sec, so you can jump them aswell, and its not allways the 5ppl stealther team jumping the non stealther.

 

[Herjulf]

Remove Camoflage - as see hidden is gone

[snip censi´s stuff]
remove pet tracking stealth targets
up remedy timers to 10 mins
increase PA damage
[/snip censi´s stuff]


make PA also bleed+snare(2sec) duration to facilitate PA chain. landing CD is has become like ridiculously hard. PA is a skilled manover but doing the full line should only be dependent on landing the PA and completing the chain not like having to hit sprint or use cripling poison.

PA chain not increasing growthrates 3rd style does less dmg then a garrotte. 4 style dito.

rework crit style damage overall, to fit the quick kill get out profile of assasains.

remove quick cap ( or atleast lower melee spd cap to 1sec)

Do something about the mincer +infil/scout situation. insta stun+ae mezz dont go well with balancing.

give SB str/dex debuffs or make str/con debuff posion str/con/dex. it will atleast make the weaponskill/dmg part even out.

[snip censi´s stuff]
lower FZ to 5 minute timer but make FZ'd target damage immune while surfing the wave
make mezz poison reuse on 20 min timer
[/snip censi´s stuff]

uptune vanish, and tripple the immunity timers, OR at the very least tripple the dmg immunity timer. And not the invisibility timer.

Do something about the stealth counter situation, atm there is Prescience nodes, stealth guards (orange con´s with 1500-2000 aggro range), pets through stealth, stealther choke points on keeps makes placement of counters very easy, guards that nuke/shoot throuh walls.

Give Shadowblades some extra love with the uptune wand.

Give shaman´s focus X buff, (alb focus AF, hib melee spd) maybe Focus abs (dunno what is suitable and equal to the counterparts alternatives)

Give shadowblades on evade or positional stun first in chain style, with comp spec in mind, so it isnt like 50 in axe or smt.

These are some of the stuff that i find that are hotfix material.

 

[Puppet]

-make remdey a ra all stealther or only assasins can buy (5 10 15 ezt)

This is a bad idea. That would basically mean a RA-nerf once again to all stealthers because then you need to buy Remedy to be viable (against other stealthers) but do nothing for you in fights against visibles. Same with MoS currently. MoS was basically a stealth-nerf, 10-25 points spend which do nothing for you in a fight vs. visibles.

Better suggestion, and Im a Nightshade: Remove Remedy and give shades something else. Hell give em back old Avoidance of Pain but call it Skin of the Badger and make it 15% or so. Still nice, but not OP and a decent compensation for a poorer Racial choice

-give hunters some slower bows
-strip minzers from chain to studded atm thay are godlike in 1vs1

Both good solutions. studded/reinforced would be fair for a mincer, chain is just stupid combined with spec-AF, ablative AND stealth and well u name it they have it :S

-and remove brittelguards or fix so archer can shoot em even if brittelguards is up ? maybe to good.

I would suggest Brittles dont intercept PA/BS2. Give archers:
Arrow of Swipe, granted at 30 Bow spec, gives you the ability to kill all brittles with 1 arrow+BT, but dont deal damage to enemy. Does give target to the caster
Golden Arrow of Swipe, at 40 bow spec, same as before, but no target given. Furthermore, allow Trueshot (the RA), to kill ALL brittles, and penetrate BT for 100% + 50% range on normal shot (basically same RA as now, but also kill all Brittles)

-give hunters chain and evade1-2 as thay hade from start

ehh no.. we just removed chain from mincers, we leave hunters in studded but keep Evade3 as they have now. Then they're fine as is. Perhaps give all spear-styles a 'Medium' or 'High' chance-to-hit to avoid the frustrating outright misses.

-give sb a thrust spec line or give sbs a D/Q debuff in evenom line.

d/q debuff is insane, would totally annihilate Pierce/Thrust WS as Slash/Blades/Axe/Sword WS - but also debuff your swingspeed + lower your Evade. No tyvm. Just give SBs Thrust spec, way easier.

 

[peder]

o my gods
so many idoitsys
you ever playes stealthers?

lol didnt thinks so!

problem is brittle guardians and fg abilities
rest is tweaks betwenis stelathers classeses. ok

biggests is
why dont give tansk stealth in darkness is riseng=?
be fun we move stealths slows but funs

i hates the full grooops zergings me down whern i play - always solo!!!

read and thinks much!!
ok thanks


and i remember
remove magicians. they do to mych dmeges = SILLY!!!!

 

[Danamyr]

1. Remove Vanish entirely
2. Give Scouts the choice to spec Dual Wield or Shield
3. Lose MoS and Detect Hidden, making all Stealth based on level of the skill.
4. Increase range of Volley to either 2500 or 3000 and increase damage

 

[Thorwyn]

Although I`m not gonna contribute anything to this thread in terms of punctual suggestions, I think that the overall rock-paper-scissor situation: caster>tank>stealther>caster is disturbed. There are too many casters that I - as a stealther - don´t dare to attack because I would silmply die. Bonedancers, Spirit Masters, Warlocks... maybe Enchanters too.
I think one of the main problems is, that there are too many tools for casters against their (supposed) arch enemies, the assassins. I`m not entirely sure how to fix this, because some of the game mechanics are rooted pretty deep in the classes. The result is, that stealthers are left over to basically kill their mirror-matches, which - one step further - leads to shifting the focus on stealthgame-only balance issues.
Mythic doesn´t want to encourage solo play. That´s their statement. However, I think it´s vital for the game to give the playerbase a maximum range of playing options. As soon as the game dictates how I have to play it in order to be successful, there´s something wrong.

So, instead of trying to fix symptoms like "minstrels and chain", I´d like to see the game shifting back into the more traditional mechanisms.

 

[peder]

make pa a 9sec stun, with no additional dmg, increase rib separation dmg so it does ~1000

rib sep changed to chain off PA.

make creeping death a 250 armor debuff and chains after PA.

get to choose 1000 dmg, or af debuff (good vs tanks ;p)

give sb's str/dex ws

make so debuffs dont remove hps once they drop off (ie someone looseing 30% hps after str/con debuff left him)

remove dw penaltys vs shield, but harder arch to block if someone runs thru (so you have to make sure you have your oponent infront of you, right now you can still block if hes inside you, and block fairly well with just ./face.

make zephyr a 1000 range knockback thing, takes 1sec to "fly" thru the air, and you can block, and cast spells that are insta.

give all other classes a 5min reuse RA that gives you increased stealth for 15sec, so you can jump them aswell, and its not allways the 5ppl stealther team jumping the non stealther.

didnt your mammy wake you up today?????
>>pa 9 secs
>>get to choose 1000 dmg, or af debuff (good vs tanks ;p)

huhuhuhu

 

[tazzbe]

Looking from mincer point of view

Only thing i would like back is the normal stealth...no MoS. If you spec in stealth you should be rewarded for it (even on mincer)...

So much fun to meet a RR2 or RR3 stealther and not even be able to see them untill they standing on top of you. The fact you also got 35 + 15+ from items & realm rank doesn't help at all atm.

Think the best option would be to remove stealth from mincer completely...and make them a more usefull groupchar again for normal teams (spec in shield? give dual wield? give resists? anything really that makes up for having no stealth anymore, but yet give something to the group. This means every realm got 2 classes in stealth again.

No more QQ about mincer from stealthers...since most mincers will be running in a normal group again. Btw...any stealther attacking a stealthed mincer these days KNOW what he is facing since you see them standing miles away anyway.

From scout point of view
The prob that has been stated with the pets...same solution imo...if you spec high in bow dmg you should be rewarded for it (XX% more chance to bypass the pets and hit the target directly) It shouldn't be a 100% rate...but now you waist xx arrows on pets before even damaging the caster...ow and the BT is another one. If the caster still dies with all his pets/bt up...well he deserves to die these days or he was afk.

About stealth...well same as for other stealthclasses...if you spec in stealth you should be rewarded by seeing other stealthers easier that got lower stealth.

Infil point of view
no idea...never really played my gimp enough to comment on it. Just the fact others are saying about speccing 50!!! in a line to get an evade stun off. Make it easy and give all stealthers at 20-ish a stun from evade style...and prob is solved. Don't think any infil will complain about lower spec points if they don't have to spec 50 for their DF.

It's a nice thread...but who will look at it that can really make the changes the players want?
Imo they should do mass polls soon about ALL classes...RA's etc...give people some options to chose from and look at what the customers want. And change the game to whatever the customers playing & paying for it want.