Stealther balance what would you change?

[censi]

good discussion post on VN I though would be worth making here.

What chages would you make to the current suite of stealther classes in order to balance those classes with each other and visual classes...

Also discuss what you would change in order to make these stealther classes groupable.

Disclaimer: I know some of you dont give a fook about stealthers. This post is for peeps that do etc..

Disclaimer2: lets just list changes. Dont challenge other peoples posts. just put what u think u would like to change.

 

[-Freezingwiz-]

MoS & PD to mincers
less evade on assasins
Body dmg legendarys weapons!



j/k

 

[Minimac]

Im a mincer, and Most people wouldnt say this if they were a mincer

But comon a Stealther in chain armour .. Shield .. instants ... Mezz.. Ablative ... IP

May i go on??

Remove stealth and let mincer spec in dual wield or shield

 

[Twinky]

nice post censi

sb:
1 - Ip2
2 - Change rr5 ability
3 - Make leather atleast neutral to slash
4 - Decrease infil spec pts

Make shammys dmgshield-buff a aug spell so we get x-tra buff bonus aswell

 

[-Freezingwiz-]

nice post censi

sb:
1 - Ip2
2 - Change rr5 ability
3 - Make leather atleast neutral to slash
4 - Decrease infil spec pts

Make shammys dmgshield-buff a aug spell so we get x-tra buff bonus aswell

and give warlock's IP while we are handing out IP anyway

 

[Twinky]

and give warlock's IP while we are handing out IP anyway

hehe

 

[censi]

bad start be serious come on.

ill get ball rolling.

Remove camo
remove detect hidden
remove pet tracking stealth targets
up remedy timers to 10 mins
increase PA damage
make PA also snare for 2 sec duration to facilitate PA chain. landing CD is has become like ridiculously hard. PA is a skilled manover but doing the full line should only be dependent on landing the PA and completing the chain not like having to hit sprint or use cripling poison.
rework crit show
remove quick cap or bow draw times
do summin about mincers
give SB str/dex debuffs
lower FZ to 5 minute timer but make FZ'd target damage immune while surfing the wave
make mezz poison reuse on 20 min timer
make sure vanish works

 

[Theseus]

bad start be serious come on.

ill get ball rolling.

Remove camo
remove detect hidden
remove pet tracking stealth targets
up remedy timers to 10 mins
increase PA damage
make PA also snare for 2 sec duration to facilitate PA chain. landing CD is has become like ridiculously hard. PA is a skilled manover but doing the full line should only be dependent on landing the PA and completing the chain not like having to hit sprint or use cripling poison.
rework crit show
remove quick cap or bow draw times
do summin about mincers
give SB str/dex debuffs
lower FZ to 5 minute timer but make FZ'd target damage immune while surfing the wave
make mezz poison reuse on 20 min timer
make sure vanish works

That is spot on imo.

About mincers though, mythic fucked up with giving them stealth and now it is too late to take it back, they will always bring unbalance in the stealthgame and are still the strongest stealthclass in the game atm.

But i don't really care tbh Play for fun imo

 

[Minimac]

Stealthers r all fine

Remove mincer from the stealth battle then its fair..

Alb infils are sorted if duo'd with a mincer, Only a gimp can miss pa chain when mincer uses their instant 9 sec stun

Alb have 3 stealth classes all OP

Hib got 2 Both good

Mid got 2 but short end of the stick ... Only skilled players that play hunter and sb stand a chance vs other realm stealthers

 

[[WR]Mothman]

Sb need dex debuff poison
Infils need less spend points
Mintrel really op!!! chain/shield/stun instan mez ... FH... IP (cant have more)

 

[Mastade]

Half the reuse timer on mezz poison.
up the reuse on remedy to either 10 or 15 mins.
remove MoS completely.
rework the resist tables for leather and reinforced.
reduce the disarm while vanished to 10 secs.

 

[Kelio]

i would like to have a zoom in/out option on /map so i can tell more accurate where the duo partner is.

Remove SoM /use2

Remedy is redicolusly OP compared to inf/sb rr5

If removal of minstrel stealth, gifv 2-h specc (w/o double speccing à skald)

PA - gifv snare effect

vanish1 - speed 2 10sec
vanish2 - speed 3 15sec
vanish3 - speed 4 20sec (if im gonna spend 30points on a ra that allows me to get a get out of jail card i want to get so far away from crimescene that i survive. not one step aside just to be popped by a person using stealth lore

increase dmg on all stealthers and remove ip (archers/minstrels)

and FFS allow me to stealth after i have single mezzed someone. as it is now i have to switch to drum, play pow/speed song, cancel pow/speed song then stealth otherwise it says you have an active spell bla bla bla.

AOE mezz should not affect a stealthed person.

Pets should loose target if a person stealth.

and nerf that fg sbs at agramon alb bridgehead that keeps zerging (you know who you are)

 

[brad]

Stealthers r all fine

Remove mincer from the stealth battle then its fair..

Alb infils are sorted if duo'd with a mincer, Only a gimp can miss pa chain when mincer uses their instant 9 sec stun

Alb have 3 stealth classes all OP

Hib got 2 Both good

Mid got 2 but short end of the stick ... Only skilled players that play hunter and sb stand a chance vs other realm stealthers

I agree with you there, i tend to see even high RR mids get owned by low RR people, which is stupid imo. Would be nicer if SB's were given more spec points to spend also, since i here it's very hard to get a ok spec on a SB.

 

[Kelio]

Mintrel really op!!! chain/shield/stun instan mez ... FH... IP (cant have more)

chain - yes
shield - yes but not speccable, i think ive mangaged to block a grey familiar in df once
stun - yes
insta mezz - NO

 

[illu]

bad start be serious come on.

ill get ball rolling.

Remove camo
remove detect hidden
remove pet tracking stealth targets
up remedy timers to 10 mins
increase PA damage
make PA also snare for 2 sec duration to facilitate PA chain. landing CD is has become like ridiculously hard. PA is a skilled manover but doing the full line should only be dependent on landing the PA and completing the chain not like having to hit sprint or use cripling poison.
rework crit show
remove quick cap or bow draw times
do summin about mincers
give SB str/dex debuffs
lower FZ to 5 minute timer but make FZ'd target damage immune while surfing the wave
make mezz poison reuse on 20 min timer
make sure vanish works

I think it's not too bad the way it is at the moment ^^. There are some issues that should be looked at, but it's not too far off balanced-ish.

-Mezz poison should be on a 15-20minute timer as it is a pretty powerful ability, and nerf the spell timer resetting when you have a full backpack, and NOT getting the essence flare :/
-Up the reuse on remedy to either 10 or 15 mins. (I agree - just so that it is not up for EVERY fight)
-Reduce the disarm while vanished to 10 secs. <- (I'd use this to PA a target a second time I don't mind being disarmed for 30 seconds, if the goddam vanish spell worked as it is meant to, and not vanish->instapop because a caster x5 or archer x7 was in the middle of zapping/shooting you. Such Rubbish) Also keep guards should stop attacking you when you vanish, instead of the crap shammy buff or the proc on your gov ticking on them and re-aggroing you.
-Pets should definitely stop following once you are in stealth.
-PA damage should be at least doubled or at least hit for a minimum amount.
-And I think FZ is fine as it is, just have a healing totem and use it while flying or use2 on battler or malice. If the timer is reduced, people start ping ponging you and using it any time they feel like.

TBH the classes aren't too far apart, you do need to tweak sb's and get a lot of items to compete, but they all seem to even out after RR5 (except for Remedy :>). Albs always seem to hit hard, NS's dodge and destroy you with remedy up, as long as the SB can purge / keep his strength up, the fights can be pretty even.

Oli - Illu

PS RR5 Ability 30second 90% Caster Damage Reduction would be great (basically the opposite of their 90% melee reduction) :> Payback Time!

 

[Light]

remove MoS - make ability to see through stealth and be seen based on stealth spec only

give mincers pa chain xD

 

[Fenderon]

up timer on remedy to 15 mins

fix vanish - I've stopped using it since the insane castingspeed on alot of people unstealthed me after timer had weared off. Give them a "Your target has vanished! Spell fails" message.

If you have a pet on you and stealth with pet over 200 units away they cant find you.

Remove castable stealthlore from classes that cant stealth. SL should only be obtainable by /use(2) on items.

lower mezz-poison recast to 15-20mins.

I'll add more later, got to run to catch the train now

 

[Ilienwyn]

Give stealthers a special place to fool around so we avoid them!

 

[Minimac]

nice discussion imo no whines haha

 

[Phantomby]

Hmm
Give stealthers minimal rp's for being able to "tag" solo/grps enemy and change the war map so that only tagged people within a certain range appear on it. (even if they dont get groups at least they can scout for the realm).

dont like the fact that bow classes can just outlast an assassin through malice / ip2, i think giving assassins ip is a little OP but something needs to be done to even things up again.

PA chain is a joke going against SL/PN/brittle guards/bubble...dont up the damage but have it slice through those things, or massively up the damage and let them keep their 4 safe guards so in the eventuality we do get past

many more ideas spring to mind ...

 

[Calo]

I'll add more later, got to run to catch the train now

hope u missed it

 

[Petwick(Ebony Hand)]

Get rid of brittleguards,make casting/weapon swing hard cap the same,have PA ignore resists,get rid of SL for non steathing classes,change mos back to what it was OF,increase PA damage,(hell if i can get hit for 1400 damage by a caster,I wanna hit him back for the same)

bout all I can think of atm

 

[Skaven]

PA chain is a joke going against SL/PN/brittle guards/bubble...dont up the damage but have it slice through those things, or massively up the damage and let them keep their 4 safe guards so in the eventuality we do get past

many more ideas spring to mind ...

Yep, the crap you have to do just to try and line up a Pa chain for it then just to be eaten by brittle guards and bt, makes trying to take down casters nowadays a joke. Thats really my biggest issue atm.

 

[Jomfru]

let my hunter hit censi for atleast 600+ per hit..

oh btw maybe remove Phoebus/winged from stealthers?

<- aprily ! /hug /flex /vic

 

[Exarkun]

- give some sort of improved PA that has a chance to bypass brittle guards or something (maybe ability at 50CS)
- fix Vanish, either by making sure you dont pop right away or increase the undetectable timer on all levels
- increase nightshade insta DD dmg to match the minstrel DD?
- 10 minute reuse timer on remedy
- decrease the detection radius on MoS or cap MoS at lvl3

 

[Kagato]

Remove Vanish completely.

And :

lower FZ to 5 minute timer but make FZ'd target damage immune while surfing the wave

That I agree with completely, the reuse timer was never the problem with FZ, being helpless to all damage for the duration was.

To make them more groupable i'd suggest friendly stealthers should be visible in shade to their group members and always targettable from the group list.

Siege Wrecker should also be on an independant timer to give assassins more function in a siege.

 

[Fenderon]

Siege Wrecker should also be on an independant timer to give assassins more function in a siege.

not only that, it should be fixed so it actually fires every time instead of randomly going away without doing anything.


edit: give sabotage (the remove PN, fop etc spell) a 2 second cast but it wont unstealth you.
edit2: moc+lt is just silly

calo: I didn't miss it.

 

[Isunder]

Infiltrator perspective:

Give assassins something to do at a siege:
- make climb spots (more)visible
- remove assassin npc's
- have climb spots in towers with tower captain inaccessible

Brittle guards shouldn't block PA
SB's and Infils need a better RR5 ability or Remedy needs nerfing (one or the other)
Camoflage eqivalent on assassins vs archers

Pretty much everything covered in the assassin team leads last reports. (including the points that were dismissed as working as intended or raise again in next report or it's under discussion)

 

[Zane]

lower FZ to 5 minute timer but make FZ'd target damage immune while surfing the wave

That I agree with completely, the reuse timer was never the problem with FZ, being helpless to all damage for the duration was.
.

Might work out for the stealtherfights however in fg fights 5 min reuse timer on FZ is way OP vs BG even if it means being damage immune.

 

[Dalilama]

-make remdey a ra all stealther or only assasins can buy (5 10 15 ezt)
-give hunters some slower bows
-strip minzers from chain to studded atm thay are godlike in 1vs1
-remove the mustadd ra some stealther have
-and remove brittelguards or fix so archer can shoot em even if brittelguards is up ? maybe to good.
-give hunters chain and evade1-2 as thay hade from start
-give sb a thrust spec line or give sbs a D/Q debuff in evenom line.