Stealth lore

[Indiana Jones]

forgive me if i'm wrong

but there was a time (when assassins had IP) when ppl were shouting: "an assassins is not supposed to win from a real tank" and thats why they took away our IP. When you ask ppl now what stealthers should kill: all those ppl say "support classes" in other words: casters, healers,...

and now you're saying that you don't like it when we take out caster and healers...???

 

[scarffs]

Stealthers ages ago indeed did not zerg, they killed everything solo.
This will be the deathblow for the mid stealthers i think.

 

[uberweebeastie]

Originally posted by iceflower
>Do you know how it is to enter a fight, have a good shot at winning vs a good grp of mids only to have your 2 druids taken down by 4 infils in 3 seconds, 2 scouts continues to shoot down the casters assisting savages and finally mincers pops and off they sos to escape the mids. I call it nothing but lame and its leeching from others fights, they lack courage to stand and fight a normal fight man to man. The way of the spineless coward. I wouldnt cry a single tear if buffbots was nerfed to hell, assassins and all other stealthers nerfed to hell or simply just removed from the entire game since I am aware of how much they actually destroy. Daoc would definetely be alot better without them.

Somehow I think this irritation is becuase you want to play 1 group vs 1 group battles. Is it realistic to expect those except at odd hours of the day nowadays? However, your interpretation of rvr dont coincide with Mythics as they favour big battles and I cant see any reason why stealthers cant contribute to them.

Loh Katta


Bubblegirl

roll a stealthier

 

[Indiana Jones]

Originally posted by old.mattshanes
Stealthers deserve a nerf, there's far too many and try playing a caster where you have to watch tanks hitting on your support or yourself ASWELL as stealthers hitting you from anywhere you least expect it to be.I agree with shike totally, stealthers now aren't like they was ages ago, except for some small amounts.

YES there are TOO many stealthers, no doubt about that !!! But "nerfing" stealth will not only lower amount of stealthers, but it destroys the whole assassin class.

Assassins have to walk stealthed (=slow) towards their target and be right in front of it to PA. Now if they nerf stealth with stealth lore and PN, and god knows what other items mythic will come up with. You will be able to see the assassin walk towards you and you can run away or turn so the PA fails.

My suggestion to decrease the amount of stealthers is very radical: REMOVE STEALTH FROM RANGERS, SCOUTS, HUNTERS AND MINSTRELLS.
I'm sure a whole bunch of the community is now yelling "boo !!!" at me. But face it, an archer or minstrell with or without stealth will still do exactly the same dmg with rapid fire, crit shot, volley,... . Stealth for those classes is a bonus and if taken away they will still be able to fight. Ofcourse they should be compensated with better defence.

Take away stealth from assassins and our main attack: critical strike can't be performed and we'll be nothing more than weak tanks

 

[Tafaya Anathas]

Originally posted by Shike
permanent and cover an entire zone would be even better, why not remove the stealthers totally and offer them a classrespecc ! I sure wouldnt cry for them.

I wanna respec to a savage and a bonedancer!

 

[old.mattshanes]

Try playing a thane and not whine

This nerf might be too much for stealthers but they do need a nerf, if you say they do not, you aren't being realistic.

Really, some stealthers don't even have to play good and can kill anything they pick as target, now if you play a caster in group, you have to pick targets good because you know damn well anything can kill you in a matter of seconds aswell as your damage not being good at all now due to the shitty spellcraft being added aswell as resist buffs.There are many things that still need to be sorted in daoc and mythic will never make them to please everyone, ever.

 

[GrivneKelmorian]

Originally posted by Shike
permanent and cover an entire zone would be even better, why not remove the stealthers totally and offer them a classrespecc ! I sure wouldnt cry for them.

 

[Falcon]

Shike you want to know the amount of times I've been in a 1 vs 1 fight with an Infil, SB or some other class, only to have a fg come roll me as I'm about to win? It works both ways, difference is I don't go round slagging off gank groups, laughing if they get a nerf, saying they deserve a nerf because of it. Stealthers are definetely no worse baffing on a fg vs fg fight than fgs are on a 1 vs 1 fight. Of course, the difference is, fgs have the option of avoiding known stealther camps for their fg vs fg fights, whereas stealthers can't due to extremely slow movement speeds, and very short detect radius meaning stealthers need to fight in small areas to stand a chance of finding each other once every 10hrs, doing it somewhere like an MG is logical because it means they can catch non-stealthers too, anywhere else and this isn't feasible for them. Gank groups however can cover massive areas with speed and catch other groups fairly frequently.

i think everyone wants a win win situation, no?? i can't imagine someone going to the frontier saying "mmmm, i feel like getting slaughtered today"

You obviously aint been in a Hib/Pryd gank group, I remember a few times when groups like MM, BO, PE, SotL etc. had teamed up to run 2fg, most Hib groups struggle to beat these 1fg vs 1fg, yet so many times when this has happened, the Hibs will STILL go back 1fg, being completely obvious that they're just gonna get owned the second they go back into emain, but they still head back like lemmings instead of doing the logical thing and going somewhere else, or also running 2fg to compete.

 

[Falcon]

Originally posted by old.mattshanes
Try playing a thane and not whine

This nerf might be too much for stealthers but they do need a nerf, if you say they do not, you aren't being realistic.

Really, some stealthers don't even have to play good and can kill anything they pick as target, now if you play a caster in group, you have to pick targets good because you know damn well anything can kill you in a matter of seconds aswell as your damage not being good at all now due to the shitty spellcraft being added aswell as resist buffs.There are many things that still need to be sorted in daoc and mythic will never make them to please everyone, ever.

Problem is everyone has isolated stealthers from groups for the last 2 years, and now stealthers are playing by themselves and for themselves everyone's crying about it. What about bonedancers? they can run round somewhere like Odin's, whiping out anything upto a fg if they're fully buffed, but that's ok, because they're not a stealther?

It's like me saying "Speed needs a nerf IMO, cos it means I can't catch people with speed as a stealther" which is horrifically selfish and would ruin a lot of people's fun, but then it's exactly what all the stealth whiners are doing. As my chanter or animist I never had a problem dealing with stealthers tbh, quickcast was my insta-win key vs. them most the time, if I got PA'd it was a different story (but even then not a guaranteed win for them), but seriously, it's MUCH harder for a stealther to line up a PA than it is for a non-stealther to keep moving and changing dir to avoid getting PA'd so they deserve the upper hand if they pull it off. There's crit shot too, but you're living in an absolute dream world if you think crit shot is something that's easy to pull off anything ever than once every 3yrs with bladeturn, evades, blocks, general restrictions on getting a crit shot.

 

[BimboBane]

Well how about purge all buffs each time a stealther stealth(except selfbuffs)? how hard can that be. Sounds decent to me they still have all benefits of their own buffs and can have buffs when fighting with ordinary grp's. put if they chose to use stealth they loose all buffs. Cause batteling a fg of unbuffed stealthers even a supportclass can survive long enuff to atleast use a instaheal.

And please set a imunity timer for PA, if ya get PA'd ya cant get PA'd for 1 minut cause the multi PA and PA vanish PA is realy lame and I can hardly think that it was intended for such use.

 

[Indiana Jones]

wow, nice idea,... purge all buffs when you stealth
i really like it you might be on to something here

and pa timer, excellent

really, these are the kinds of solutions we need
but its no use making suggestions here, we need to reach mythic

 

[old.windforce]

off course i kill the support when i see 2 fg fighting and i don't give a rats ass about what realm they from, altough i prefer juicy Brehons over Flammen Vakten

they are away from the heat of battle so i have a change to get away

they have less hitpoints and usually no teeth to bite my dick off

was solo in odin yesterday and there were 5 ns and a ranger at hmg. guess why i rather group up. if i am lucky to kill one of the odd 5-6 stealthers its back to porting and waiting another 40 minutes for another change on rps

STealthers make crap rps, it usually is a lot of waiting and sometimes a lucky streak where you make 2-3K in 10 minutes. Most stealthers who make a lot of rps play a LOT

i make way more rps with my cleric then with my infiltrator. i play my cleric a lot less now because getting a decent group is a pain atm

 

[Falcon]

Originally posted by BimboBane
Well how about purge all buffs each time a stealther stealth(except selfbuffs)? how hard can that be. Sounds decent to me they still have all benefits of their own buffs and can have buffs when fighting with ordinary grp's. put if they chose to use stealth they loose all buffs.

Yeah cos of course it's not fair that a fully buffed necro or BD can only take down 4+ stealthers at once, they need to be able to take down more to be balanced!

 

[BimboBane]

well a BD should not be able to "find" 4+ infils so i dont see the problem at all as well as a shade should not be able to "find" 4+ sb's o ns either. It is not like that BD's or necros are hard to spot it is not like jumping a "skald" just to find out that he was a pac healer.

And seriously a assasin are sneky and should not be able to take out a tank or hybrid caster class with a few iwin buttons stealthers are here as scouts to climb inside keeps and kill unsucpiciuos defenders not front load more damage than a warrior whos only skill is just doing dmg and be a plinking target for archers.

Now dont get the focus away from that this concerns all stealthers archers and mincers to. Archers did get a boost and perhaps they needed it but with my suggestion they still can have the benifits of beeing buffed to the teeth in keep takes/deffence but not while hiding stealthed around the MG's / pk's.

 

[Sichama]

Shit an almost 2 pages post, and the only thing it says is how you are more important than me.

I could rip apart practicaly everything you said in that post Shike but it will need more space than im allowed to use.

So in the end all i can say is....if you don't like it to bad for you because all the "anti" stealther measures you think Mythic is putting in will have only one result.

Large stealth groups will become the normal, sit back and think about it you will see the truth.

 

[Falcon]

Originally posted by BimboBane
well a BD should not be able to "find" 4+ infils so i dont see the problem at all as well as a shade should not be able to "find" 4+ sb's o ns either. It is not like that BD's or necros are hard to spot it is not like jumping a "skald" just to find out that he was a pac healer.

And seriously a assasin are sneky and should not be able to take out a tank or hybrid caster class with a few iwin buttons stealthers are here as scouts to climb inside keeps and kill unsucpiciuos defenders not front load more damage than a warrior whos only skill is just doing dmg and be a plinking target for archers.

Now dont get the focus away from that this concerns all stealthers archers and mincers to. Archers did get a boost and perhaps they needed it but with my suggestion they still can have the benifits of beeing buffed to the teeth in keep takes/deffence but not while hiding stealthed around the MG's / pk's.

Point is you're saying it's fine for every class except stealthers to use buffbots? Sorry but no, that's outright rediculous, either buffbots go altogether or not at all, and thankfully I'm pretty sure Mythic are sensible enough to understand this and wont listen to such a rediculous idea. Not only that but it would force stealthers to just stealth zerg more, think of a class like a friar, champion or savage, you'd need about 3/4 unbuffed stealthers to take down any of those because all 3 are rediculously effective against unbuffed stealthers in melee.

 

[scarffs]

Ranged buffs, why not.
But to force stealthers to lose buffs when they stealth is a little ridiculous. They'd be the only ones fighting without buffs in the game and couldnt even kill a support class 1v1.

 

[klavrynd]

the only stealther nerf thus far is sb so cry me a fucking river.


for the fist time in ages i totally agree with shike

 

[hrodelbert]

at least some of you know what it's like to play a class that was once good :<

 

[Shike]

Originally posted by iceflower
[BSomehow I think this irritation is becuase you want to play 1 group vs 1 group battles. Is it realistic to expect those except at odd hours of the day nowadays? However, your interpretation of rvr dont coincide with Mythics as they favour big battles and I cant see any reason why stealthers cant contribute to them.

Loh Katta
Bubblegirl [/B]

not really true, we jump zergs every day tbh, I wouldnt call that FG vs FG

And big battles can be fun for sure, if they are somewhat even, steamrolling someone isnt what I would call fun neither is getting steamrolled

 

[Shike]

Originally posted by Indiana Jones
forgive me if i'm wrong

but there was a time (when assassins had IP) when ppl were shouting: "an assassins is not supposed to win from a real tank" and thats why they took away our IP. When you ask ppl now what stealthers should kill: all those ppl say "support classes" in other words: casters, healers,...

and now you're saying that you don't like it when we take out caster and healers...???

dont misunderstand me mate, I dont mind the soloers/duos out there jumping a misplaced support in a fight (that is not always battleturning), what is destroying things are the FGs that roam around and somehow manages to add into fights very very often whereever in Emain they might be, this have seemed to become a trend for some reason and these are the absolute worst to deal with since assassins massive impactDPS is insane mostly due to PA+CD+Str/Condebuff and a poison or other nasty poisons and when a FG attack stealthers attack another FG in battle, explain to me how on earth the fighting group is supposed to even stand the slightest chanse to survive the attack, a FG add with "normal" classes can at least be seen and CCd abit to slow them down, you cannot do this with stealthers due to stealth. And ofc the campers that only dare to do something if they have a win-win situatuation. (read, when others are fighting and they have excessive numbers and simply cannot loose). Pure leeching and nothing else is what it is.

When assassins had IP they was nearly as overpowered as archers was in the old days. That is in no way balanced is it? And a skilled assassin today can kill any tank anyway by using a helluvalot of kiting (ie using all resources his toon actually have) and with alittle luck aswell sometimes. I dont mind that at all since the use of the toon is deciding here, use it well and you may win, play poor and you loose, simple. With IP+Evade7+possibility to appy poisons+RAs as vanish+PA again etc its simply too much.

 

[BimboBane]

Originally posted by Falcon
Point is you're saying it's fine for every class except stealthers to use buffbots? Sorry but no, that's outright rediculous, either buffbots go altogether or not at all, and thankfully I'm pretty sure Mythic are sensible enough to understand this and wont listen to such a rediculous idea. Not only that but it would force stealthers to just stealth zerg more, think of a class like a friar, champion or savage, you'd need about 3/4 unbuffed stealthers to take down any of those because all 3 are rediculously effective against unbuffed stealthers in melee.

Sure even a large grp of stealthers that aint buffed to oblivion can be handled with a grp of casters so what? I feel that I have stepped on a large "I must win" toe. Then and finaly then stealthers will have to chose their target more wisely and just not pwn whatever comes their way.

I have had sum realy intresting discussions with both high ranked sb's and Infils on quakenet just a few mins ago regarding this issue. Almost all in the channel we created to discuss this agreed that most of the challenge comes from winning a 1vs1 or 1vs2 fight unbuffed so dont say you "must" have boofs, learn to know yer class instead depending on boofs and yapping down on a suggestions on a board who not lightly even would reach they eyes of mythic.

You take as example the you cant pwn a friar/champ/savage so? use vanish and skip that target since he is out of yer leauge. There is no reason for you to sui on a champ, leave him to other classes better equipped to hack him into pieces since i have a hard time beliving that he will find ya if ya vaporate into thin air, vanish is the "oops he was to hard lets escape from this before it gets nasty" button, not a ability to PA-vanish-PA.

This obsession with stealthers must be able to kill ALL classes is what is rediculous. Pick yer target wisely and take him ofguard, 90% of the times i have been pwnd by stealthers I have been chatting/planing and messed up my defence and died. Often with a surprised chock where the f--k did he come from? *grumble make mental note, dont let the selfbuffs time out*

In my eye's assasins is a scout class that are a huge benifitt in keep's and for keeping an eye out for enemy movements in the fronts, not to pwn all players they find flawless.

And removing buffbots well that is sumthing we know for sure that wont happend. But letting the stealther classes have the possibility to choose wether or not to have buffs by staying out of stealthed or not sounds fair to me but then again my hunter is only rr3. And I have always had to pick my targets carefully since im miles away from pk when logging in in enemy terrortory (inovative spelling), to find someone to plink, numerous time have I critshot some poor alb just to find he got bt and legged it to find an easier target elsewhere.

 

[Shike]

Originally posted by Indiana Jones
YES there are TOO many stealthers, no doubt about that !!! But "nerfing" stealth will not only lower amount of stealthers, but it destroys the whole assassin class.

Assassins have to walk stealthed (=slow) towards their target and be right in front of it to PA. Now if they nerf stealth with stealth lore and PN, and god knows what other items mythic will come up with. You will be able to see the assassin walk towards you and you can run away or turn so the PA fails.

My suggestion to decrease the amount of stealthers is very radical: REMOVE STEALTH FROM RANGERS, SCOUTS, HUNTERS AND MINSTRELLS.
I'm sure a whole bunch of the community is now yelling "boo !!!" at me. But face it, an archer or minstrell with or without stealth will still do exactly the same dmg with rapid fire, crit shot, volley,... . Stealth for those classes is a bonus and if taken away they will still be able to fight. Ofcourse they should be compensated with better defence.

Take away stealth from assassins and our main attack: critical strike can't be performed and we'll be nothing more than weak tanks

correction, there are waaaaaay too many stealthers atm. Stealthers shouldnt be playing such a big part in the game as they do atm tbh and thats my problem with them mostly I guess. Only way to lower numbers is to nerf them, plain and simple. And your suggestion to remove stealth from archers/mincers, well, maybe it isnt that bad but I believe it would lead to even more assassins beeing rolled tbh. And the spiral would continue downward even more.

My suggestion is simple, remove MGs, implement several PKs with more ways to enter the primary frontierzones Odins, Emain, Hadrians Wall and remove chokepoints (My hopes are "Frontiers" will change this alot), penalize assassins RPs when fighting with several stealthers heavy so that every added stealther attacking a FG degrades RPs with 10% of the original amount worth for just that group. Maybe this is tricky to implement, I dont know, I aint a programmer.

That way stealthers would both be loved since they have the power to decide a battles outcome and when they actually do, they lower the RPs gained dramatically aswell and this will not be liked I believe and it would kill stealtherzergs swiftly since they will not generate the RPs they do at this time and wont be as desireable anymore since a big reason they exist is to do nothing but farm RPs.

This doesnt affect the stealthers abilities one single bit but still kill the zerging effectively. Most stealthers claim they dont stealthzerg anyway so this wouldnt be so bad would it?

 

[BimboBane]

Originally posted by Shike
This doesnt affect the stealthers abilities one single bit but still kill the zerging effectively. Most stealthers claim they dont stealthzerg anyway so this wouldnt be so bad would it?

 

[Shike]

Originally posted by Falcon
Shike you want to know the amount of times I've been in a 1 vs 1 fight with an Infil, SB or some other class, only to have a fg come roll me as I'm about to win? It works both ways, difference is I don't go round slagging off gank groups, laughing if they get a nerf, saying they deserve a nerf because of it. Stealthers are definetely no worse baffing on a fg vs fg fight than fgs are on a 1 vs 1 fight. Of course, the difference is, fgs have the option of avoiding known stealther camps for their fg vs fg fights, whereas stealthers can't due to extremely slow movement speeds, and very short detect radius meaning stealthers need to fight in small areas to stand a chance of finding each other once every 10hrs, doing it somewhere like an MG is logical because it means they can catch non-stealthers too, anywhere else and this isn't feasible for them. Gank groups however can cover massive areas with speed and catch other groups fairly frequently.

I have played ranger, I know how hard it can be Problem is, GL finding a fight these days with just 1 infil/SB etc.

And you are terribly wrong mate, FG stealthers are FAR worse than a normal group since they cant be CCd at all before its too late. Tell me how to work around this and I will listen. And FG with a mincer in it can cover an area just as large as a gankgroup mate and when they run into something they hide and attack. Whats the difference? Well, they hide and attack and thats the problem. Lately it is not just at MGs stealthers add in either as you seem to think, it has gotten alot worse and they somehow manage to find groups fighting in the most weird places and in a very short time aswell tbh. From a hibperspective this is how it is, how it is for albs.. I dont know, I cant imagine they suffer from same problem as much since hibs lack a speeding stealther that can travel his group around fast and mids lack it too. Ofc NS/Rangers can travel with a bard but I dont see anyone do this, why can one ask, well, I believe its since that bard wont get as much RPs since he cant be hidden ofc and will get killed hence its not as RPgaining as playing a minstrel. See where I'm gettin at? Cant be hidden=Cant come and go freely=Cant leech as well suddenly, if hibs or mids had a similar class to minstrel they would do exact same shit as albs I think. And you say " Of course, the difference is, fgs have the option of avoiding known stealther camps for their fg vs fg fights, whereas stealthers can't ", well does a visible group have the option to avoid a baffing stealthergroup, when they cant be seen?

 

[Falcon]

Sure even a large grp of stealthers that aint buffed to oblivion can be handled with a grp of casters so what? I feel that I have stepped on a large "I must win" toe. Then and finaly then stealthers will have to chose their target more wisely and just not pwn whatever comes their way.

ROFL, yeah I must always win, that's why my primary class since day 1 has been a ranger, archers are well known to be about the most gimp class grouping in game. You show nothing but lack of knowledge beleiving an archer can own anything that comes their way.

I have had sum realy intresting discussions with both high ranked sb's and Infils on quakenet just a few mins ago regarding this issue. Almost all in the channel we created to discuss this agreed that most of the challenge comes from winning a 1vs1 or 1vs2 fight unbuffed so dont say you "must" have boofs, learn to know yer class instead depending on boofs and yapping down on a suggestions on a board who not lightly even would reach they eyes of mythic.

You're right the challenge comes winning 1 vs 1, but 99% of solo targets will be buffed to their teeth even if they aren't a stealther, how in the slightest is that fair if they're allowed to be buffed but the stealther isn't? Telling me to learn my class is amusing to say the least, I've done far, far more research into rangers than most people out there have about their class thanks.

You take as example the you cant pwn a friar/champ/savage so? use vanish and skip that target since he is out of yer leauge. There is no reason for you to sui on a champ, leave him to other classes better equipped to hack him into pieces since i have a hard time beliving that he will find ya if ya vaporate into thin air, vanish is the "oops he was to hard lets escape from this before it gets nasty" button, not a ability to PA-vanish-PA.

Cool, Rangers got PA and Vanish? Damn I didn't see that in the patch notes! Have you read what this original thread is about? a stealther CANT vanish into thin air even more even if they were to have vanish, stealth lore is an ability to let your average joe class find any stealther, luckily there's a counter to it.

This obsession with stealthers must be able to kill ALL classes is what is rediculous.

Whereas assassins can kill most things, against an equally buffed mage an archer is screwed because quickcast offers a free win vs arrows, archers can't qc to get the upperhand again and they can't CC. Against a sheild tank an archer is stuff, if your hunter has ever shot at a sheild tank you'll understand. About all archers can kill with a pretty decent success rate 1 vs 1 is support classes, other than that it's about picking a target that aint gonna concentrate on you the second you depop to fire/nock. Most archers get their kills on targets who aint paying attention, are already wounded, are engaged in another battle, are resting. As I say, there's little an archer can consistently take head to head, unlike most tanks, or some mages who can surely and consistently take down specific classes. All this is largely because the overall DPS of an archer is heavily tarred by things like bladeturn, evade, block, high miss rates (and before 1.62, high fumble rates). Archer bow damage output is just far too inconsistent to rely on.

Pick yer target wisely and take him ofguard, 90% of the times i have been pwnd by stealthers I have been chatting/planing and messed up my defence and died.

That's what most stealthers do, you're completely contradicting most of your own argument here by telling us it's a good idea to pick targets wisely? i.e. targets who are already in combat, low on hp, resting, not paying attention, I think that's how most stealthers make their kills, and also how I've both made a lot of mine as my NS/Ranger and also avoided a lot as my Hero, Chanter, Animist, by knowing when I'm stealther meat. Not only that but knowing what makes a good target for a stealther has allowed me to not fall into that trap allowing me passage of places like AMG solo without risk sometimes. If only whiners learnt how to avoid stealthers tactics instead of falling for them and we may not get a lot of these cry babies who get owned all the time.

In my eye's assasins is a scout class that are a huge benifitt in keep's and for keeping an eye out for enemy movements in the fronts, not to pwn all players they find flawless.

Have you ever looked up the word assassin in the dictionary? Assassins aren't the only stealthers, what is your bitch about exactly, please confirm, are you whining here about ALL stealthers or just assassins, if it's just assassins, realise your mistake and realise what you actually want is an assassin nerf not a stealther nerf.

And removing buffbots well that is sumthing we know for sure that wont happend. But letting the stealther classes have the possibility to choose wether or not to have buffs by staying out of stealthed or not sounds fair to me but then again my hunter is only rr3. And I have always had to pick my targets carefully since im miles away from pk when logging in in enemy terrortory (inovative spelling), to find someone to plink, numerous time have I critshot some poor alb just to find he got bt and legged it to find an easier target elsewhere.

Nice to hear you have an archer, and you openly admit you suffer problems finding targets, and when you do struggle to kill them, so please, tell me why if that's the case archers deserve an extra stealth nerf? Compare the amount of rps a stealther can make to a class in a group, or a bonedancer. Playing an archer is slow rp gain, long times between targets, often hard to take down some targets, some targets not killable at all.

I think what most people are struggling with is the difference between a stealther nerf, an assassin nerf, and a stealth zerg nerf. I have to agree assassins are pretty powerful, I reserved judgement until I got an NS to 50 and they are easier to jump straight in and start playing, ideally they need a nerf to their str/const debuff. However, no one who really knows what they're on about can claim archers are overpowered.

I'm not personally that bothered about the new ToA stealth lore and prescience node (now it's been nerfed), they're no more a nerf than the group panther mode on the dreamsphere will be to fotm tank groups when they can't figure out what the hell panther to assist on first. What bothers me is the worrying amount of newbies the news of these stealth changes has brought out the woodwork who fail to understand an awful lot of things. On top of that, the fact that the AMG Infil zerg has given such a bad name to every type of stealther ever, when in fact the core problem is the overpowered nature of Albion stealthers, i.e. minstrels and infils being able to work together and get the best of everything, speed, stealth, damage output, cc, ablative.

Shike, do you know what your comments pertaining to all stealthers when you've made it obvious it's just the bafing full group stealthers you have a problem with make you out to be? A facist.

 

[iceflower]

>not really true, we jump zergs every day tbh, I wouldnt call that FG vs FG

Ah the glory that is nice RAs

 

[Shike]

Originally posted by Sichama
Shit an almost 2 pages post, and the only thing it says is how you are more important than me.

I could rip apart practicaly everything you said in that post Shike but it will need more space than im allowed to use.

So in the end all i can say is....if you don't like it to bad for you because all the "anti" stealther measures you think Mythic is putting in will have only one result.

Large stealth groups will become the normal, sit back and think about it you will see the truth.

man, this has nothing to do about who is more important or not, this is about unbalance and how poorly implemented stealthers actually are in daoc. Take a look at the pure numbers that exist, infils in alb/pryd are the 3rd most common lvl50.... 3rd, doesnt this tell you anything at all? Or are you blind and only care for your own cause and how important you are?

And if stealthers zerg even more to defeat PN, stealthlore etc, well then my point is only proven even more, they care for nothing but RPs and resort to zerging instead of using more tactics to find a way around the "antimeasures" and in the end, its lack of skill and brains totally and it will most likely just cause even more stealthers rolled, and more people will close their accounts due to stealthers beeing unbearable so there is nothing left but stealthers in the end. Question is though, will it be the people playin visible classes fault, or the stealthers that stealthzergs fault?

 

[Falcon]

And you are terribly wrong mate, FG stealthers are FAR worse than a normal group since they cant be CCd at all before its too late. Tell me how to work around this and I will listen. And FG with a mincer in it can cover an area just as large as a gankgroup mate and when they run into something they hide and attack. Whats the difference? Well, they hide and attack and thats the problem. Lately it is not just at MGs stealthers add in either as you seem to think, it has gotten alot worse and they somehow manage to find groups fighting in the most weird places and in a very short time aswell tbh.

If things have got that bad on Prydwen then you're right and I was wrong on the issue of being able to avoid stealthers, I didn't realise how shite Prydwen really was nowadays. However again, you're asking for a nerf to all stealthers when in fact the key problem is the overpowered nature of infils/minstrels and it's that that needs dealing with, not stealth as a whole. Yes the stealther population is high but again, how much of it is assassins? What happened is Mythic implemented See Hidden to cull the archer population, and I said back then when it came out "Boosting assassins to remove archers is just going to overpopulate assassins", now look what's happened. The key is tools such as the new stealth lore items to cut down the stealther population but my massive concern here is that archers are once again being taken down with assassins as collateral damage no one knows the reality of. At the end of the day, the only stealthers in game who can compete with other classes on rp gain are Alb stealthers because AMG Emain is such an activity hotspot, and so close to their portal back into battle. Mid stealthers come next but get a harder time having to travel to AMG, and the fact they're just gimped and Hib stealthers just cop a massive journey back to emain. I definetely agree that Frontiers has the possibility to fix all this by ensuring that each realm has an equal distance to travel to the hotspots, or even better, ensuring there ARENT hotspots.

The alternative, and preferable solution to most stealthers, is to finally do something about stealther groupability, or more to the point groupability in general, seeing as most people roll a stealther because their main isn't FOTM and can't get groups.

 

[Shike]

Originally posted by iceflower
>not really true, we jump zergs every day tbh, I wouldnt call that FG vs FG

Ah the glory that is nice RAs

at rr3? we die alot aswell btw