stanley tookie willaims

[old.Tohtori]

Since we AAAALL love to do these "what if it were your mother/daughter/sister...blah blah" things...

What if your daughter killed someone? Would you say "Throw her in a jail and give her a razerblade to finish herself off!"

Doubt it.

 

[DocWolfe]

Since we AAAALL love to do these "what if it were your mother/daughter/sister...blah blah" things...

What if your daughter killed someone? Would you say "Throw her in a jail and give her a razerblade to finish herself off!"

Doubt it.

If anyone in my family killed someone without due cause, i.e. for the hell of it or over something trivial. I would disown them and tell the police where they were.

 

[tris-]

me too. if they broke the law then they broke the law didnt they.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Didn't really answer my question though.

Would you tell that your own daughter should be given a razorblade so she could end herself? Would your feelings for a person change that much because of a murder?

You can't really say before it happens, now can you.

 

[tris-]

untill then i will still believe thats what i would do though.

im not even sure why you asked.

i already said what i thought on the subject, im not gonna have different views just because the people in question are different am i?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Just that before going off shouting "kill yourself and the world will be saved!", people should walk a mile etc etc.

Just something people tend to forget as they become emotional.

EDIT: Well...in this case...walk a green mile in another mans shoes... hur hur...had to.

 

[Ormorof]

I see killing as the ultimate evil, and thus there's no return for the murderer, therefore I am against rehabilitation when it comes to this.

you see killing someone as the "ultimate evil" and yet think its ok to kill someone for "justice"????


and i agree with Tohtori, if it was your brother/uncle/sister/father/etc that killed someone would you want them dead? would you instantly change all your feelings?

i really do doubt it, unless you dont like them much anyway

 

[Shatari]

Are you trying to make me laugh? People that rape and abuse children cannot be cured its not a disease. I would rather clear the streets of these sick bastards than the murderers. Someone gets murdered they die end of (family and friends suffer but people die so it gets better with time).

Someone gets raped, abused as a kid their head is fucked up for life, regardless of therapy you cannot take away the violation of being raped ever not ever. Victims often become scared of leaving their own homes while the fuckers that done it walk freely as if nothing is wrong.

Are you actually saying that you would prefer the girl/child to get killed than raped?
Also you make it sound like death is nothing....

1. Why do you think that some of the victims of rape didn't fight much back or not at all? I would say it was because they were affrait of getting killed. Just to make an example a woman recently stated that the reason she didn't fight back, was because she struggled for her life (was the female that was raped twice. - Danish story).
Many people would chose life above anything, and history of war has proven that through time. Only exception would be if people faced the option between their own life or a life of someone they love dearly.

2. Death is not cruel when it comes naturally and in an old age where you're prepared for it. In most circumstances when people are murdered it wasn't something they did want to happen, wouldn't you say?
Getting killed does surely end everything, but you forget that, that person perhabs had many things to live for.

 

[Shatari]

you see killing someone as the "ultimate evil" and yet think its ok to kill someone for "justice"????


and i agree with Tohtori, if it was your brother/uncle/sister/father/etc that killed someone would you want them dead? would you instantly change all your feelings?

i really do doubt it, unless you dont like them much anyway

As said I don't see "killing" a murderer as killing. Actually I don't even consider a murderer a person, but more like an animal.

And no, I wouldn't change my opinion. I would be very very sad if some of my dearly beloved did commit such a crime as murderer, but I wouldn't change my mind. I would push them aside and only remember the good memories, and let them die.

 

[Calaen]

Are you actually saying that you would prefer the girl/child to get killed than raped?
Also you make it sound like death is nothing....

1. Why do you think that some of the victims of rape didn't fight much back or not at all? I would say it was because they were affrait of getting killed. Just to make an example a woman recently stated that the reason she didn't fight back, was because she struggled for her life (was the female that was raped twice. - Danish story).
Many people would chose life above anything, and history of war has proven that through time. Only exception would be if people faced the option between their own life or a life of someone they love dearly.

2. Death is not cruel when it comes naturally and in an old age where you're prepared for it. In most circumstances when people are murdered it wasn't something they did want to happen, wouldn't you say?
Getting killed does surely end everything, but you forget that, that person perhabs had many things to live for.

I would rather die than be violated forcefully, because I would then risk going insane and thinking of was to get revenge which is something I disagree with.

Aside from all this though, we need to look at our own justice system, as has already been mentioned early about that gang of kids that killed the gay barman that survived the soho bombings. They kicked the fuck out of numerous people that night and they only got manslaugther and a shit 3-5 year sentence. its a fucking joke one of them cant even be named because of legal reason....

 

[Ormorof]

As said I don't see "killing" a murderer as killing. Actually I don't even consider a murderer a person, but more like an animal.

And no, I wouldn't change my opinion. I would be very very sad if some of my dearly beloved did commit such a crime as murderer, but I wouldn't change my mind. I would push them aside and only remember the good memories, and let them die.

killing is killing, no matter where its done or who its done by, if you start letting people pick and choose everything just goes to shit

i mean look at america, one of the highest murder rates in the world with approx 12,500 a year, then look at Canada (nearest neighbour) who abolished the death penalty in '76, with just 489 murders, ok so theres less people in Canada but even if you look at it Murders per capita its way higher...

so its not like the death penalty even works as a detterent, it could even act as a spur no?

for example in the UK you murder someone, you go to jail for life, but youre still alive, in texas for example you could get killed by the state for murder, so youre more likely to keep killing to stop yourself from getting caught no?

 

[Shatari]

killing is killing, no matter where its done or who its done by, if you start letting people pick and choose everything just goes to shit

You see, that's one of the points where you and I disagree. Executing a killer I don't see as killing. Let's hold it like that, as I don't think you can make me believe something else, nor do I think I can make you believe the same way as I do.

i mean look at america, one of the highest murder rates in the world with approx 12,500 a year, then look at Canada (nearest neighbour) who abolished the death penalty in '76, with just 489 murders, ok so theres less people in Canada but even if you look at it Murders per capita its way higher...

so its not like the death penalty even works as a detterent, it could even act as a spur no?

for example in the UK you murder someone, you go to jail for life, but youre still alive, in texas for example you could get killed by the state for murder, so youre more likely to keep killing to stop yourself from getting caught no?

You can't compare murder rates from one country to another like that, and then say it is because there's death penalty in America. I think it is in Bowling for Columbine, you see some very good arguements. One of his thoughts is that, it may be because the americans got a very violent history that includes racism, repressing people and so on.
Also I can't see why murder rates would go up if people gets executed for murderer, unless it counts into the statistic?

 

[Ormorof]

Also I can't see why murder rates would go up if people gets executed for murderer, unless it counts into the statistic?

ok, imagine yourself in this situation, you have just murdered someone, you have a gun and a load of ammo, the police have surrounded you, you are panicking, and scared shitless because you know if youre caught, you'll be heading for death row, so what do you do?

A: give yourself up and head to death row?
B: take as many of them down before they get to you?

most people who have already killed someone are more likely to start shooting no? simply because they are either: slightly traumatised by what they have done, or already nutters and so will keep shooting

however in the UK, you know that even if the police catch you they arent going to leave you sitting in prison wondering when you're going to have your last meal for years, you just know you'll be stuck there a long long time to consider what you did and what you can do when/if you are let out

 

[tris-]

its not IF, its when.

u killed someone
raped them too?
kidd napped them?
set them on fire you say?

well it should be 20 yrs, but you have been washing the potatos. thats 4 yrs knocked off the sentance. oh you made your bed, another 5 yrs off. you wrote a book and drew pictures, got GCSE in english and watch repair. theres 10 yrs off.

there u go sonny jim, 1 year in prison and you will be sorted.

 

[Shatari]

ok, imagine yourself in this situation, you have just murdered someone, you have a gun and a load of ammo, the police have surrounded you, you are panicking, and scared shitless because you know if youre caught, you'll be heading for death row, so what do you do?

A: give yourself up and head to death row?
B: take as many of them down before they get to you?

most people who have already killed someone are more likely to start shooting no? simply because they are either: slightly traumatised by what they have done, or already nutters and so will keep shooting

however in the UK, you know that even if the police catch you they arent going to leave you sitting in prison wondering when you're going to have your last meal for years, you just know you'll be stuck there a long long time to consider what you did and what you can do when/if you are let out

You think about it that way, but have you thought about it this way:

A. Have you thought that even in countries where there's not death penalty, there's alot of shooting and killing cops even though the killer knows the chance for him to get away from the cops is very little?

B. If there didn't exist death penalty and you knew, you would end up in prison for the rest of your life, and that killing more wouldn't change anything.
Wouldn't you just shoot?

 

[noblok]

You can't compare murder rates from one country to another like that, and then say it is because there's death penalty in America. I think it is in Bowling for Columbine, you see some very good arguements. One of his thoughts is that, it may be because the americans got a very violent history that includes racism, repressing people and so on.

Sorry, but that was the worst argument someone ever used. Do you think Europe had a peaceful history? No, it hasn't. Does Europe have the same murder per capita as the US? No it hasn't.

I am not saying that the death penalty increases the murder ratio. I would say it's got more to do with a bad education system, a lack of a state supported social network and free availability of guns and ammo. Blaming history, however, is just silly.

 

[Jjuraa]

So you didn't tell people that they were emotionless (aka having no emotions), and being unloved and unloving, if they didn't agree?

Well, I'm done discussing this, as you have no clue whatsoever about what you've said or any clue at all. (in my opinion, you're free to have your own )

<adds some stuff about Jjuraa being bad with arguments and being a child>

nope, i didnt say "you are emotionless" i said "if you can restrain your reactions like that, then youre emotionless". i know full well that he COULDNT restrain his reactions, so in actuall fact if i AM telling people what they are, then im really telling them that theyre not emotionless.

As for "bad with arguments and a child" .. meh least i can form my own viewpoints, not carbon copy other peoples jsut because theyre famous