Speed cameras - interesting programme

[Bodhi]

Sorry but the anti-speeding arguments just convince me of one thing.


Speed doesn't kill people, forgetting your green cross code does. That would be Stop Look Listen for the younger amongst you.

Seriously, do they even teach people this anymore?

 

[Calaen]

Congratulations, you've managed to completely and utterly miss the entire point. Why don't you try reading what I (and others) posted?

I tell you what, you drive at the speed limit. You pay attention to the roadsigns telling you what speed is safe. Only when you end up in a field because you were doing 40mph around a bend on a 40mph road, a bend that has a diesel spill down the centre and heavy dust on the kerbs, just remember - speed kills!

Well generally there are signs that say slow when there is a tight bend. but hey just because you have your kick arse wank off certificate you will be able to handle the diesel spill and the imaginary dust and why not throw in a cow on the fuckinng road aswell?

Fuck you Tom your whole point is based on you wanting to learn how to be able to drive faster. You would be no better prepared than anyone else just because you think you are untouchable. This is your weakness you are no different from anyone else on the roads. If you where half as fucking good as you pretend to be you would be making money as a racing driver. Just remember People that think they can drive faster than everyone else Kill.

 

[Bodhi]

Well generally there are signs that say slow when there is a tight bend. but hey just because you have your kick arse wank off certificate you will be able to handle the diesel spill and the imaginary dust and why not throw in a cow on the fuckinng road aswell?

Fuck you Tom your whole point is based on you wanting to learn how to be able to drive faster. You would be no better prepared than anyone else just because you think you are untouchable. This is your weakness you are no different from anyone else on the roads. If you where half as fucking good as you pretend to be you would be making money as a racing driver. Just remember People that think they can drive faster than everyone else Kill.

What the fuck would you know about driving judging by your sig you've been locked in your bedroom at your parents house playing Dark Age of Wankalot for the past 2 fucking years you pasty faced cockmuncher. Are you so fucking stupid as to not realise that some people actually know how to control a car at speed on the open road when conditions allow? You know despite all this legislation for bad driving Britain there do exist some of us out there who know how to drive, and can spot hazards and slow down accordingly. Driving round like a mindless chicken at the speed limit thinking its gonna keep you safe is a far far more dangerous attitude.


In short, get a fucking clue, retard.

 

[Calaen]

What the fuck would you know about driving judging by your sig you've been locked in your bedroom at your parents house playing Dark Age of Wankalot for the past 2 fucking years you pasty faced cockmuncher. Are you so fucking stupid as to not realise that some people actually know how to control a car at speed on the open road when conditions allow? You know despite all this legislation for bad driving Britain there do exist some of us out there who know how to drive, and can spot hazards and slow down accordingly. Driving round like a mindless chicken at the speed limit thinking its gonna keep you safe is a far far more dangerous attitude.


In short, get a fucking clue, retard.

And yet you know the game so well by your familiarity with it. I am 26 and I own my own house ofc, and I am due to be married in June to my fiance of 4 years. I also never met my fatehr so parents is kinda wrong to.

So by your ability to Judge me from my Sig, I guess that because you dont have one your to busy being a rent boy screwing old men while wearing a skirt to pay for your internet cafe wank fits to get one? Exactly I guess I could not be further from the truth.

It's always better to not judge and be right than judge and be seriously fucking wrong. I am entitled to my opionion on Toms discussion I was not name calling just stating my views and opinions.

 

[tris-]

Are you so fucking stupid as to not realise that some people actually know how to control a car at speed on the open road when conditions allow? You know despite all this legislation for bad driving Britain there do exist some of us out there who know how to drive, and can spot hazards and slow down accordingly.

exactly SOME, and if you increase the speed limits people will try to drive the new faster limit, and end up in accidents. ofc i couldnt give a car skidding fuck about them, but its still likely to happen.

 

[TdC]

It never fails to amaze me how vehemently the discussions in car threads go. it's a bit like questioning someone's gender preference or genital size to their face and the resulting arguement.

I happen to agree with Tom, but I also know that there is only one law and that all must obey. There is no little bit of law for blue eyed people and another bit for the grey haired, it's here for all of us if we happen to agree with it or not. The law can not tell if you are a competant driver, cyclist, pedestrian etc. etc. that's why it generalises and defines limits for us all. There is this though: you don't like a law? then by all means do your utmost to have it changed, write to your MP and what not but until the change happens you have to obey it, even if it pains you to do so.

 

[Calaen]

exactly SOME, and if you increase the speed limits people will try to drive the new faster limit, and end up in accidents. ofc i couldnt give a car skidding fuck about them, but its still likely to happen.

thats the whole point, while I appreciate Tom is taking his courses to become a better driver, that does not have an effect on the majority of drivers who just are not aware of what is going on around them. This argument will go on forever because there is always going to be more bad than good drivers. Because again as Tom has already stated there is not enough going on to educate people who can already drive further.

 

[tris-]

what Tdc said tbh, except without all the big words

 

[Garaen]

Are you so fucking stupid as to not realise that some people actually know how to control a car at speed on the open road when conditions allow? You know despite all this legislation for bad driving Britain there do exist some of us out there who know how to drive, and can spot hazards and slow down accordingly.

I think the main problem stems from the fact that some people think they can control a car whilst breaking the speed limit when infact they can't. I don't pretend to stay within the speed limit all the time, i currently live in Germany where speed cameras are painted to "hide" in the backround so it is extremelly difficult to see them. I couldn't stop laughing when i went to England about 6 months ago and drove for my first time there, the cameras are painted in bright colours and it is stupidly easy to avoid most of them. In my opinion speed cameras do play an important role, they may not stop a drink driver, they may not stop someone who knows the camera is there from speeding once he/she has passed it but it does serve to keep people within a reasonable level of the speed limit. The constant threat whilst speeding is getting flashed going to fast and losing a license. I've noticed many people consider themselfs "great" drivers because they havn't had any major accidents and therefor think its acceptable for themselves to speed because "they know what they are doing". I personally have no doubt people could drive 20/30+ km/h above the speed limit and not crash most of the time, but sometimes speeding does endager other drivers (For example speeding up behind a new driver, they panic and swerve out of the way to avoid the driver behind flashing their full beam at you). I agree that people can spot hazarads and slow down accordingly, but it only takes one slight lapse of concentration and you miss a hazard, whilst speeding and damage the car/yourself extremely bad and possibly other drivers around you.

In Germany there is no speed limit on the motorways as i'm sure most of you know and many people cruise at 100mp/h without any problems it's just when something goes wrong (burst tyre, loss of concentration etc) that a crash happens and with a higher speed comes great damage to you and others.

Okay i've rambled on a bit there and kind of lost the point. Speeding is breaking the law and is therefore subject to punishment, end of arguement. Some people can "speed safely" others can't. You could speed and not put your car in any danger as such, but could endanger other drivers who don't anticipate someone speeding. It is stupid in my opinion trying to justify speeding. It's breaking the law and is wrong, if you don't like the punishment don't speed. The main problem i have with many drivers is they believe they are an expert driver (a traint more common in men, and i myself have an inflated opinion of my driving abilities) just because you havn't had an accident doesn't mean you are able to control your car safely while speeding excesivly. I was taught that a car is like a loaded gun and can kill any time, any where.

 

[Dr_Weasel]

I think people can get quite sidetracked in these types of discussions into an aboslute right or wrong. I dont agree with people trying to get off of speeding tickets via odd loopholes, they shouldnt have been speeding in the first place. But my issue is with the fact of was the positioning of that camera and that speed limit really justified.

Take my example earlier of the road thats an 'accident black spot'. You know damn well it will be reduced from a 60 to a 40 and a camera put on a straight mostly because lorries cut a 90 degree bend and munch cars occasionally. But you can bet your bottom dollar that they wont fix the white lines, pot holes, etc that all contribute to road safety and that camera will pap people doing over 40 on the stright BECAUSE ITS SAFE TO DO SO!

As another example, the place back home where my friend was killed a few years ago was at a crossroads on a dual carridgeway. It was 2 miles of 70mph road coming out of town towards the motorway. However, after 2 miles, the road dips down and there is a traffic light controlled crossroads. Someone came flying down this road at 100mph at night and slammed into my friends car that was turning at the crossroads when the lights were green for her. The guy came over the brow of the hill and couldnt stop.

So, they have reduced all 2 miles of the road to 50mph (kinda unnecessary as its only the actualy cross roads thats dangerous) and installed a camera a few hunder yards before the crossroads on the brow of the hill. (Fantastic!! Makes people slow down before they get to the crossroads. Mark one up for road safety).

Imagaine my horror/disgust last time I visited home when they have swivelled the camera around to point AWAY from the junction down the 2 miles of 50mph dual carridgeway. Where the hell is the safety in that??? There to my knowledge has never been an accident on that part of the road and instead that divert the SAFTEY camera away from the job of slowing people down for the cross roads to catching people accelerating AWAY from the junction.

IMO its an insult to my friends memory to have the camera pointing like that. Where the hell is the saftey in that? Yes you can say that people shouldnt be speeding past it, but thats not the point. In my opinion its safe to be doing over 50 mph away from the junction. I dont personally because its the law, but the camera was out there for a saftey job that its no longer doing. Its just collecting revenue.

Its this that people get so pissed off about and causes a huge backlash against cameras. If they were put in sensible places, and there were sensible speed limits put in place then I think people may not have so much of a problem.

 

[Calaen]

probably one of the more sensible posts on this thread along with TDC's latest, and all of mine ofc

 

[Dr_Weasel]

I think I may trademark "Weasel's words of Wisdom"

 

[Calaen]

I think I may trademark "Weasel's words of Wisdom"

If im honest I was posting about the post above you but you got in before me however your post was also good so take the credit aswell.

 

[Tom]

Fuck you Tom your whole point is based on you wanting to learn how to be able to drive faster. You would be no better prepared than anyone else just because you think you are untouchable. This is your weakness you are no different from anyone else on the roads. If you where half as fucking good as you pretend to be you would be making money as a racing driver. Just remember People that think they can drive faster than everyone else Kill.

Erm I seem to recall saying I wanted to be a safer driver. And you're telling me to go get fucked?

I drive a RWD sports car with about 240bhp per tonne, no airbags, no side impact protection, no abs, no traction. I bet I'm a much safer driver than most other people who sit surrounded by these safety features, secure in the knowledge that they're the invincible ones. They're the ones that tailgate me on wet roads at night. They're the ones that have zero lane discipline on roundabouts. They're also the ones who run red lights and who don't know how to control a car while its skidding (because they think the computer will do that for them).

You seem to think that all I want is to be able to drive down my local street at 60mph instead of 30mph. Well if thats what you think, then you need some reading lessons. What I want is not to be punished by a faceless speed camera but a traffic officer. I want somebody who knows a thing or two about road safety to make that judgement as to whether or not I'm driving dangerously, not some stupid radar/magnetic strip activated revenue device.

You know the really stupid thing about these cameras? They don't catch the estimated 10% of vehicles on the road that are untaxed and uninsured - and statistically its these vehicles that are more likely to be involved in accidents, and hit-and-run incidents.

But then again, why would you care? So long as you're driving along mindlessly, paying scant attention to your surroundings, but safe in the knowledge that you're not breaking any laws, you're bound not to have an accident, right? WRONG.

 

[Calaen]

But then again, why would you care? So long as you're driving along mindlessly, paying scant attention to your surroundings, but safe in the knowledge that you're not breaking any laws, you're bound not to have an accident, right? WRONG.

Well you have been in 3 accidents? me 0 whats does that mean? absolutely nothing because whether or not your a good driver shit happens that you can do nothing about no matter what spec your car is. you see alot of seriously bad dangerous drivers never even realise they have caused an accident because of some monkey arsed manouvre on the motorway.

At the end of the day they cannot have enough traffic police around because it would cost far to much money and as we know they prefer to make it.

 

[Bodhi]

And yet you know the game so well by your familiarity with it. I am 26 and I own my own house ofc, and I am due to be married in June to my fiance of 4 years. I also never met my fatehr so parents is kinda wrong to.

So by your ability to Judge me from my Sig, I guess that because you dont have one your to busy being a rent boy screwing old men while wearing a skirt to pay for your internet cafe wank fits to get one? Exactly I guess I could not be further from the truth.

It's always better to not judge and be right than judge and be seriously fucking wrong. I am entitled to my opionion on Toms discussion I was not name calling just stating my views and opinions.

I don't have a sig do I? What's that at the end of my post then?

 

[Jupitus]

I think in the interests of fairness I should suggest that perhaps he didn't realise that your signature only appears on the first post on any given page.

*steps out of the way and lets the fighting carry on*

 

[Tom]

At the end of the day they cannot have enough traffic police around because it would cost far to much money and as we know they prefer to make it.

It worked perfectly well until they introduced speed cameras though.

Just you wait, one day if you're unlucky (and I very much hope this doesn't happen to you), somebody you know will be hit by an uninsured driver, or a drunk driver. Then perhaps the realisation that fewer speed cameras and more traffic officers could have caught that driver earlier will dawn upon you.

 

[tris-]

just thought id say i now agree with tom. at first i thought u were one of these mo fo who just wanna drive faster for the sake of it. but now i see your point, i agree totally. i dont agree though, that the law should change just because a minority of people are good drivers

 

[Tom]

Thanks tris, thats really nice of you to say. I'm glad I was able to get my point across.

 

[Chilly]

Righto Tom, so if you're going 36 in a 30 and pass a speed camera while you were driving SAFELY (as confirmed and taught to you by a police driver) why do you still get a ticket?

Is it because the speed camera was placed aggressively at the bottom of a hill with a 60 limit?
Is it because you were simply going 36 on a long, high visibility road with a 30 limit with lots of space (and 36 is reasonable, I agree, in those conidions)?
Or is it because you were in a 30 zone doing 36?

 

[tris-]

yep its illegal. obviously we shouldnt be practicing any of our advanced driving skills untill the law changes or we are employed as a police person/ambulance driver.

or you know you wont get caught

 

[Tom]

Righto Tom, so if you're going 36 in a 30 and pass a speed camera while you were driving SAFELY (as confirmed and taught to you by a police driver) why do you still get a ticket?

Because government policy is to reduce the number of traffic police in accordance with their requirements to have more 'bobbies on the beat', and also to push a system of road safety which has actually been a huge failure.

You've kind of answered your own question though - I was driving safely, and still got a ticket. Why?

 

[leggy]

Sorry if this has been said before:

"You don't get to decide whether or not you are safe"

 

[Garaen]

I drive a RWD sports car with about 240bhp per tonne, no airbags, no side impact protection, no abs, no traction. I bet I'm a much safer driver than most other people who sit surrounded by these safety features, secure in the knowledge that they're the invincible ones.

I bet you're not. I have an airbag and safety features in my car, do i act like a dickhead on the roads because i think that if i crash i'll be okay? No i don't because i have the slightest ounch of common sense and realise most crashes could potentially be fatal, crashes on the motorway/schnell strasses (I think they are like speed highways in U.K) have a high chance to become serious or fatal. People who drive are far, far from damage proof regardless of what safety features they have in the car. I wonder, if your car had safety features would you still consider yourself a better driver than most others?

What I want is not to be punished by a faceless speed camera but a traffic officer. I want somebody who knows a thing or two about road safety to make that judgement as to whether or not I'm driving dangerously, not some stupid radar/magnetic strip activated revenue device.

I can't see why this matters? Speeding is speeding, whether you think you are speeding safely is irreliavant (imo). Also how would an objective traffic watcher be able to judge whether you are being safe or not, there are so many tiny discrepancys that could cause a crash that a human would be unable to pick up in a few seconds as you drive past. Interesting again, if this were to be implemented would you take what these wardens said and admit if you were speeding un-safely, or would you soon be posting ways to by-pass the fines etc?

Speeding is speeding, whether caught by camera or policeman. The feeling i get from your arguement is your justification for speeding is, someone speeding is a better driver because they have to pay more attention? Whether i am doing 30km/h in a residential zone or 180/200km/h on the motorway i will pay the exact same amount of my attention, my full amount.

 

[Chilly]

Because government policy is to reduce the number of traffic police in accordance with their requirements to have more 'bobbies on the beat', and also to push a system of road safety which has actually been a huge failure.

You've kind of answered your own question though - I was driving safely, and still got a ticket. Why?

yes I did answer it myself, if only implicitly.

I said: Or is it because you were in a 30 zone doing 36?
I meant: Because you were going 36 in a 30

 

[Tom]

Speeding is speeding, whether caught by camera or policeman. The feeling i get from your arguement is your justification for speeding is, someone speeding is a better driver because they have to pay more attention? Whether i am doing 30km/h in a residential zone or 180/200km/h on the motorway i will pay the exact same amount of my attention, my full amount.

Traffic officers as in those people with peaked caps that drive around in police volvos - whose very presence causes people to immediately become superb, law-abiding drivers. Traffic officers don't stand at the side of the road watching what you do, unless their visible presence is to deter people from driving too fast in dangerous conditions.

7% of road deaths are directly attributable to speeding. Seven percent - shouldn't we be focusing on the major causes of accidents? Such as poor pedestrian training, drivers falling asleep at the wheel, drunkedness, unroadworthy vehicles - none of which can be caught by a speed camera.

 

[nath]

Interesting that here you're going on about how much better traffic police would be, as if it would end unfair tickets/fines only a few days after posting this.

 

[tris-]

lol.

 

[Tom]

Interesting that here you're going on about how much better traffic police would be, as if it would end unfair tickets/fines only a few days after posting this.

Officers of years gone by used to be trained for about 5 weeks before they could be called a Traffic officer. These days its a few days.

Kind of explains it really.