sound systems...

[Scooba Da Bass]

Originally posted by testin_da_cable
I know nothing of hifi systems/speakers etc, and I don't mean to provoke anything but...if that bass is so " low and well controlled" that you don't know it's there...then what is the use of it?

Don't flame...that's a [moderately] serious question.

Bodhi was talking about a mismatched choice of amp and speaker (and/or EQ settings), where it's tuned to minimise Bass in your face, to paraphrase PE, some people don't like a loud expansive bass, some people do, down to a matter of taste really

 

[bodhi]

Originally posted by testin_da_cable
I know nothing of hifi systems/speakers etc, and I don't mean to provoke anything but...if that bass is so " low and well controlled" that you don't know it's there...then what is the use of it?

Don't flame...that's a [moderately] serious question.

Notice how I said "You dont always realise"

 

[Testin da Cable]

Originally posted by Scooba Da Bass

Bodhi was talking about a mismatched choice of amp and speaker (and/or EQ settings), where it's tuned to minimise Bass in your face, to paraphrase PE, some people don't like a loud expansive bass, some people do, down to a matter of taste really

thanks Scooba

Originally posted by Bodhi

Notice how I said "You dont always realise"

aye I get it now.


'nother question: why does Frankie shoot his sub-out through an extra amp? would that be like using a monoblock?

 

[Scooba Da Bass]

Originally posted by testin_da_cable
'nother question: why does Frankie shoot his sub-out through an extra amp? would that be like using a monoblock?

Reading his post I think he's using the Second amp to drive a pair of subwoofers, the Dolby receiver only has a single output pole for a subwoofer, and altho I don't have the Ohm figures for the speakers it could be that a parallel wireup wouldn't work safely, or he might have the money to spend on having an amp dedicated to just the subs, best course of action, ask him

 

[old.TUG]

Frankies idea's of them fuckin speakers being subs are a bit gay but he reckons it works well... if his ears like 'em i wont take the piss too much

As for me wantin a new system... i think i'll go back to wantin the technics CD player. lol

 

[old.frankie]

yeah... ask me

Well, the hitachhi amp has gone wrong in the right channel, hence me getting the technics one. So ive just wired the sub out phono lead to the left input (the channel that still works) and run 2 old AR18's off it, under the desk. They have an 8 inch long throw woofer, so as you can imagine, with the crossover at <100 hz it does kick very nicely, and its a very refined bass, because 8 inch is just about right for music...

I might as well put the amp and two old speakers to good use, and i have done, and im suprised at how well its worked, its almost perfect, as good if not better than normal house use powered subs ive heard in audio shops and around friends houses. It aint tacky either, cant see any of the sub system, as its all neatly hidden away. A nice feature on the technics amp though is a gain control for the sub out, varying it 10 either way of 0, gives complete control of the bass in the system for different sort of tracks. Classical for instance is extreamly refined with the crossover @ <150 and the gain at around 0, whereas dance music depending on mood can have a higher gain.

its very refined though, not used to the sort of quality sound produced with the new setup, really is quite breathtaking on some tracks.

 

[old.frankie]

btw, the hitachi amp has 4 speaker outs, so im using 2 on the left channel, so, not running them off on out in parralell as that would make it most likely a 2 - 3 ohm load, which is a bit much

 

[old.frankie]

an obviosly the speakers arnt "subs" but they are setup as such.

basically im just running 2 speakers with a crossover set

and as they are quality woofers, running off a fairly powerfull amp, it works very well.

 

[old.TUG]

I still say if you're gonna do something, do it properly.

Ur setup there for 'bass' is half arsed.. sell old amp and speakers and buy a nice active sub for 100-150 quid.

I think you'd be surprised with the difference in bass quality and depth tbh...

 

[mr_greedy]

Oooh nice sytems folks!
I've got my system running a stereo output through my Cambridge A1 and Gale Monitor bookshelfs, but I've also got a digital output going to my Minidisc (Sony JE530) coax socket. I had to have a cable specially made, god knows if it's any use or not, but it connects the 6.4 coax plug to the 3.5 digital output on my Soundblaster Platinum.
I've got a 5.1 Player! card sitting about that I haven't installed, and was considering getting a Yamaha Decoder that What Hifi reviewed a few months back (DX9 something), but is the outlay (we're talking £500 once I've bought speakers and everything) really worth it? Does surround sound make a difference in games, and is the quality from DVDs comparable to a specialist surround system?

 

[Testin da Cable]

thanks for your answers guys
I'm thinking of getting some new kit to replace my ageing system thus being quite glad this thread came along. I know next to nothing about hifi equipment [as I said] so it was nice to read about your diverse setups.

Frankie, I didn't mean to "pass you over" when I asked that question about your dual-amp setup. I worded it badly so I'm sorry if it came across wrong.

 

[old.Kez]

I saw a £1300 speaker set (3 or 5 piece, didn't really look) today in ipswich, surely thats a bit over the top? :/

 

[old.frankie]

naa

im check these boards a fair bit

What tug doesnt realise is that the active subs are designed for rumbling bass, for MOVIES

they are utter shite for music, and thats a fact. if you are using big speakers and just sending bass to them, you get a much clearer sound. FACT. I dont think i have seen an in house sub designed for music solely. Has anyone? any links?

might be interested if it sounded better than the setup i have now

 

[old.frankie]

it would be worth it if they used decent componants, such as titanium tweeters and other such expensive parts.

As for expensive cabling, i dont know about that. This is in reference to i think bodhi's post?

A mate useds the most expensive cabling there is but i cant see any better quality at all. Also, wouldnt the cabling be rendered useless at the actual connections? such as at the speakers and at the amp?

i say this because only a small part of the surface area of the wire would be in contact, even if you use expensive goldplated bananna connections, as i do. Also wouldnt the soldering of these connections be a problem? im not sure how passive to electron flow solder is, is there special audio solder you can get? maybe with some gold or somming in it?

 

[Scooba Da Bass]

You can get sub's designed solely for music, they are only really for PA applications (Djs, bands etc..), high end audiophile systems, or if you are a mix engineer who requires very very very clear bass definition (this is very rare as 99.9% of studio monitors are fine for mix downs).

Reason for bass sounding better on general Hi-fi speakers is that most of what constitutes 'bass' in music is actually in the mid range, surround amps are designed to give that Thump at a frequency that is characteristic of explosions etc.... If anyone is interested I'll dig up some linksto relavent sources when I get home.

As for the cabling issue, the interconnects do make a difference..to a point, obviously it depends on the quality of the sources, and the connectors on the equipment. Above a certain point tho, there is virtually no discernable difference between a 20 pound interconnect and a 100 pound interconnect unless you are on an incredibly clear tube amp with a pair of excellent speakers, and an extremley clean power supply.

Speaker cabling is a different matter, because of the nature of the signal sent by an amp to a speaker the expensive cabling makes no difference above a certain level. The best speaker cabling I've used (and incidentally used in 98% of studio installations) is solid core mains cabling, the sort of thing used to connect cooker's up to the mains supply, it's very interference resistant, and carries the signal equally as well as the speker cabling that sells for silly prices.

 

[old.frankie]

right

i dunno, but wouldnt a solid core copper wire envoke electrical eddy currents through and around the wire?

 

[bodhi]

Originally posted by frankie
. I dont think i have seen an in house sub designed for music solely. Has anyone? any links?

Miller and Kriesel. The most dangly bit wobbling subs you can get for home use, and they sound fucking superb with music too. Just ignore the 800 quid asking price for a decent one

 

[old.frankie]

hehe, well i dont mind paying for quality, as long as it is though.

but the setup i have now suits the room fine, maybe when i have my own home i would invest in some better equipment.

 

[Scooba Da Bass]

Originally posted by frankie
right

i dunno, but wouldnt a solid core copper wire envoke electrical eddy currents through and around the wire?

No more than any other wire

 

[Testin da Cable]

Scooba said
If anyone is interested I'll dig up some linksto relavent sources

I am, if it's not too much trouble

 

[old.TUG]

Originally posted by frankie


What tug doesnt realise is that the active subs are designed for rumbling bass, for MOVIES

they are utter shite for music, and thats a fact. if you are using big speakers and just sending bass to them, you get a much clearer sound. FACT. I dont think i have seen an in house sub designed for music solely. Has anyone? any links?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA you fucking nonce

Active = powered
Subwoofer = Subwoofer!!!

OMG you're fucking stupid Exor is more intelligent than u afterall

Gimme PROOF of your so called FACTS

Cheers

 

[Greef]

Interesting...

Some v.posh kit there guys.. I have heard the thing about solid core wire before, but never believed it. My brother used it on his system, but he was using my grandfather's 'almost antique' Wharfedales (excellent in their day I am told) and their sound was muddy enough that you couldn't tell if the wire was any good! On a wiring front, I need good cables to run from my PC to my AMP(s). I am using an atlantic Phono-Phono interconnect(£20), plugged into a Phono to 3.5mm jack convertor (crap, but only 50p ish from maplins & I was in a hurry). Saw some 3.5mm Jack to Twin Phono gold plated ones in Maplin, but are they any good? (£20 each & I need 3, so I don't want to waste my money) (some Maplin wires are crap! -no dis to maplins, but the cheapo wires suck). A tip for anyone there- this wire is very important, as line level signals can be quite delicate, as compared to speaker wires where the ability to transmit Beefy voltages & currents transparenly is important - the ability for the amp to control the speaker cones as directly as possible.

I use an old Kenwood KA3020SE with Bi-Wired Gale G20s, giving a lovely clear, dynamic sound for my main stereo pair, attatched to a Live Player 5.1. These I would recommend to anyone for the price. I cannot justify using my main floorstanders for games (TDL RTL2s), nor find the space for them near my PC (the tweeters would be too low to sound good so near to me anyway). My PC speaker squeak any center sounds & a big old MIDI system booms away for the rears. I think some secondhand amps & cheapo speakers shoud sort that tho... & my birthday is coming. . A sub I am not so sure though.. saw a secondhand yamaha for £50.... dunno though..... Hmm... Our neighbour is deaf, but not that deaf

[ <yawn> .. what drivel I write.. oh well ]

For anyone considering it, 5.1 sound is great. Get a nice 5.1 system for £100 from novatech! http://www.novatech.co.uk/NOVATECH/Espec.html?c=nov-ht510
My colleague has just bought one & says it is great for DVD movies in 5.1 surround! (I do not work for novatech BTW), this seems ideal for games & movies, where fidelity & clarity is not the be all & end all of your sound system (it sounds a bit muddy & 'boomy' for music to my ears, despite the quality of DVD-driven sound used).

Anyway enough plugs.. I do go on don't I?

BTW keep up the ggod work BW... G'night all.... yawn..... :sleeping:

 

[old.frankie]

What are you on?

an active sub is a box with a sub in that has the amp inside too. i knew that, theres no discussion about that, where did i say otherwise? stop taking quotations out of context, it was in the context of the ones in most audio shops are for home cinama, and therefore are not geard toward music.

end.of.

 

[old.TUG]

Like I said on ICQ frankie and you agreed, what you said was so poorly worded that what you REALLY meant was:

"what i meant to say was the active subs ive seen and heard were designed for movies and therefore had rumbling bass, but were no good for music"

so therefore, if I reply to your original post:

>>What tug doesnt realise is that the active subs are designed for rumbling bass, for MOVIES

Active subs for home use have been designed before home cinema came about, therefore you're wrong.

>>they are utter shite for music, and thats a fact. if you are using big speakers and just sending bass to them, you get a much clearer sound. FACT

I just proved to u that home subs can sound good for music (I showed him a review for a nice cheap paradigm sub). do yer research u tit and most peeps wud say ur setup for 'subs' is rediculously half arsed

So there

What I said still counts going on your original post. If you're changing what you're saying then say so below innit

 

[bodhi]

And like I said, Miller and Kriesel subs are the absolutes dog's bollocks, especially for Rage Against the Machine

So frankie is wrong again. Quelle surpris.

 

[*Exor*]

Isn't it quelle suprise?

Also, frankie, learn how to spell cinema.

 

[Scooba Da Bass]

Link me up for that Paradigm review (or gimme the model number and I'll look it up in the catalog).

Trying to describe a sub as 'good for music' is pretty futile tho, defintion of good and all that, but what it comes down to is how much bass you want. Sticking a subwoofer into any system 99% of the time will unbalance the sound, taking it away from what the artist (and the engineer) were aiming for, seems funny that you'd spend a lot of money on interconnects and a system to achieve a close reproduction only to fuck it all up by inserting a sub that doubles the level of bass (Yes, you could EQ the bass down lower but seems pointless, not only have you paid for a sub you are hardly using, but you've also inserted another item into the signal chain)

 

[*Exor*]

Subs for music are utterly pointless. Unless you're a rudeboy.

 

[old.TUG]

Model of sub is the Paradigm PDR10 and the reviews were in the subwoofer section of www.audioreview.com - it's only a cheapie though.

Yea I don't think I'd have a sub for music @ home but for car audio I like 'em Specially for the sort of music I listen to, well - some of it.

Therefore I am a rood bwoy. Seen bro, seen...

 

[bodhi]

Originally posted by *Exor*
Isn't it quelle suprise?

No.