something to make the blood boil

[Ezteq]

was listening to the radio whilst making my lunch today and theres this chat show bit they have in the afternoons, it was with a vicar who runs a christian agency to turn gays straight...

yep you read right, the guy himself "used" to be gay but is now happily married and is working with other people (i assume men and women but he only spoke from a male perspective) to help them change their ways and become "real" men...

excuse the use of excessive " "'s but OMG it made me sick to hear it tbh. Dont get me wrong im not anti religion, I accept that for some people religion helps them live good lives but i also see that for some people religion inhibits them or prejudices them against others, this is why I am an athiest because I can not believe in any religion that says one person is better than the other just because they are a member of the religion and follow all the rules.

I'm not starting a flame religions thread here, what im talking about is the idea that people who are gay choose to be that way, its like me saying "well tbh I chose to be a girl" or "I chose to have red hair" I don't know anyone who chose to be gay i know people who are gay and thought being straight might make them happy (which it didnt) so they tried to live a straight life, it didnt stop them being gay it just meant they wern't practicing.

It makes me very very sad that in this day and age there are still people out there who believe homosexuality is wrong and feel that gay people should change... I wonder if these people ever stop to think "maybe I should change" because tbh maybe they should stop minding other peoples business and just accept people for who they are because tbh it doesnt matter whether im gay or straight im me and I just want everyone to be happy withough causing pain to others and if they can do that then good on them i say.


more acceptance in the world please fgs its up to us.

 

[Gorbachioo]

Why dont you want to insult religious people?

They deserve it. Lets face it, its just fucking stupid :C

 

[dub]

because even if religious they are still people , wich in general shouldnt be insulted , usually better off expalining stuff nice and civil

 

[Ezteq]

well by me insulting religious people and saying its stupid they shouldnt do it.... um anyone else see the paradox here?

it would make me just as bad as the religious people who say "being gay is evil... dont do it"

 

[Marc]

Obviously he wasnt a shirt lifter to begin with, he must of been Bisexual. You cant just decide one day you are no longer a homo. Either that or he is living a lie.

 

[Jeremiah]

I'm a Christian, and I dont believe homosexuality is a disease any more than hetrosexuality. I believe people can change orientation, both ways (i.e from homo to hetro, and hetro to homo) but not in a "I can choose" way if you know what I mean. I also believe that in many cases, people are born gay, regardless of their upbringing.

I'm really not of this opinion that its something to be "cured". To me, being gay doesnt make a person any better or worse than those who are hetrosexual. If the guy actually believes its something to be cured, he should be slapped.

 

[NikonL]

Homosexuality is a mental condition no? I don't mean that all gay people are loons, I'm just saying that it is a function of the brain that isn't working properly. At least as far as I understand it, someone can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

To be honest, if I was gay, I wouldn't WANT to be. The prejudice and so on that you'd face, would be hassle that wouldn't be present as a heterosexual. So given the choice I would prefer to be straight.

So if what this guy is doing works, then i say fair play to him. It isn't like he's rounding gay people up and FORCING them to act straight, he's just trying to help people. Kudos.

 

[Chronictank]

Homosexuality is a mental condition no? I don't mean that all gay people are loons, I'm just saying that it is a function of the brain that isn't working properly. At least as far as I understand it, someone can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

To be honest, if I was gay, I wouldn't WANT to be. The prejudice and so on that you'd face, would be hassle that wouldn't be present as a heterosexual. So given the choice I would prefer to be straight.

So if what this guy is doing works, then i say fair play to him. It isn't like he's rounding gay people up and FORCING them to act straight, he's just trying to help people. Kudos.

i agree with Nikon tbh,
its not as if hes running round gay bars yelling on the op of his lungs "I converteth thee!!", he is helping the ones who want it and i see nothing wrong with that.

Regardless of your beliefs, some people genuinly believe being gay is wrong be it because of a mental (as posted by nikon)so can be categorised as a mental disorder or physical deficiency (in the genes) so can be classed as a genetic disorder, and to be quite frank they are entitled to their opinion as it is no less valid than your own.
I'll be a little pre-emptive before the morons come out the woodwork that i personally couldnt care less how people want to live their lives, whatever floats their boat

It's a little hypocritical of people here to openly flame religion then condem people for doing the same about gay people (if indeed it is a mental condition rather than a physical one)

 

[Gamah]

Cool can I come round and bum you chronic :<?

 

[Chronictank]

Cool can I come round and bum you chronic :<?

I only put it in, my rear is only a one way street

 

[NikonL]

<snip> [I can't tolerate this guy because his views on homosexuality differ from mine] <snip>

more acceptance in the world please fgs its up to us.

Indeed it is You can pave the way by accepting that what this guy is doing isn't harming anyone. Once I see you stop being so judgemental, then I'll follow.

 

[Ezteq]

[EDIT] Nikon i really dislike your posts, you seem to go out of your way to be an irritant, acceptance is something that people should work towards stop being a smart arse and really read what i was saying, i do not agree with people who are prejudiced and if i did then that would mean that prejudice would be allowed to spread unchecked.. I know this means I am prejudiced against people who are prejudiced, I do not accept rapists and murderers, or to follow your line of thought men and women who down load pictures of naked children and get turned on by it, hay theyre not hurting anyone are they? should I accept that, no i shouldnt, by doing nothing your actually supporting them.

Why not trying to add something constructive to a thread instead of being a agent provocateur for a change you might find you can actually come up with some really insightful stuff rather than stuff that just makes me think oh god not him again


==========================================================
er being gay means a malfunction in the brain? probably that particular line of thought is going to be seen as controversial. I think more help should be on offer to help people accept who they are and deal with it accordingly, so if they really really do not want to be gay but they are and they cant find happiness with man or woman they should get as much help as they can by learning to deal with who they are, not changing things that imo is unnatural.

however the people who are gay and would like to be gay but cant face the disaproval of others and lets face it the life is going to be tough if your not totally at ease with who you are it would be the easy option but to take someone like that and say hay read the bible, go find yourself a wife and become a real man....

i think thats just as bad as some bloke with a funny tash deciding that the jews probably shouldnt intermingle with the arians, I mean didnt he have a cure for it aswell?

my point is that people should not be put in the position where they have to make a choice, they should be what they want (and no i dont mean psychopaths or peadophiles thats totally different, being gay isnt hurting anyone) I just find it sad that in this age of enlightenment *cough* good people still cant find peace.

i mean in an ideal world everyone could be what every religion, sexuality whatever they wanted and no one would care because they'd see its who you are not what you are that matters but still we get people from religion A hating religion B and religions A and B both look down on religion C and gay people who want to be religious cant because some old fuddy duddy decided to write a chapter of a book 2000 years ago and say oh btw being gay isnt good... the lord said so ok? and we still adhere to that.

its a personal bug bear of mine i guess i just want people to be happy and imo thats not such a bad way to be.

 

[NikonL]

its a personal bug bear of mine i guess i just want people to be happy and imo thats not such a bad way to be.

These people go to him for help lol... he's improving THEIR PERSONAL quality of life. You currently sitting on a forum talking about how you want people to be happy, he's actually gone out there and started doing something TO make them happy, and you're codemning him for it.

Edit: I'm sorry if this sounds like I'm coming after you in every thread you post. Although it's pretty much true currently. It isn't anything personal against you, you just happen to have these radical views which i totally disagree with.

 

[tris-]

er being gay means a malfunction in the brain?

imo its a 'malfunction' somewhere. it seems to go against the human instinct to reproduce. which to me says, something went wrong.

if this guy is not causing harm then im unsure why its so wrong for him to say what he says. if he thinks homosexuality is caused by this and that, well he can tell people that. people can choose to believe it or tell him hes a crack pot.

personally i couldnt give a flying shit if someone is gay. what pisses me off is how (some) homosexuals make a big deal that they are like that. i dont go shouting in peoples faces im straight or do particular things to make it strikingly obvious to everyone in the vicinity

by doing nothing your actually supporting them.

sorry fella, but i dont agree with this either

 

[Chronictank]

thing is Ez he isnt forcing anyone to do anything,
He believes that being gay is a illness (its irrelevant whether its true or not), and the people who go there think it is a illness.
As such if it is treated as a mental illness it can be clasified in the same field as say obsessive compulsives (http://www.nimh.nih.gov/healthinformation/ocdmenu.cfm) both behavioural disorders.
it isn't harming anyone yet it is still regarded as a disorder, and people still go to doctors to get rid of it. Depending of the severity they do not affect a person's day to day life negatively (some consider it a blessing rather than a hinderance)

Just to reiterate i am not saying being gay is a mental disorder i am simply saying there is a perfectly valid argument to support the theory that being gay is a medical disorder

 

[Ezteq]

yes thank you very much, just what ive always wanted a stalker.


stop following me around posting contradictions to EVERY POST I MAKE! you dont agree with me fine, leave me alone and stop posting at me, please do share your views it would be really good to actually see a post by you that was useful.

 

[NikonL]

yes thank you very much, just what ive always wanted a stalker.


stop following me around posting contradictions to EVERY POST I MAKE! you dont agree with me fine, leave me alone and stop posting at me, please do share your views it would be really good to actually see a post by you that was useful.

I'm pretty sure my posts in this thread have been useful? they've provided an insight and a differing view, that you failed to mention or, it seems, even consider.

Just because you are convinced that you personally hold the answers to everything, it does not mean that my posts aren't useful.

[irony]Please refrain from the personal attacks on me as well. I take offence at being called a stalker, and I do not wish to have to bring Jupitus into this in order to give you a warning.[/irony]

(irony tags included for the hard of thinking).

 

[Chronictank]

chilax have a you 2 (unless ofc this is a playful argument and i got the wrong end of the stick )

 

[Ezteq]

lol problem sorted you really do have to love the ignore settings on this forum, all of a sudden my headache evaporated and i can again get to reading posts that have some use/informative ideas with in with out being personally targetted.


anyway to those of you whos posts are still visable to me, I just wanted to see if any of you felt this was pushing it a bit, i must say though i am surprised at the number of people who think that sexual orientation is down to whether your brain functions properly or not. wuld it be acceptable if science could come up with a way to preset this function at birth do you think?

 

[Ctuchik]

Why dont you want to insult religious people?

They deserve it. Lets face it, its just fucking stupid :C

i dont think insulting them will help. i mean. every (and i mean EVERY) part of the bible have had a scientific explanation as to why and how things happend. be it the birth of mother earth to the so called 7 dissasters or how many they were, and they still dont believe it. they are so brain washed theres no helping them.

P.S: speaking of thise religious fanatics here... the "normal" religious ppl actually have common sense enough to admit god ISNT the answer to everything. and that i dont have a problem with.

 

[NikonL]

So now that I'm safely blocked, she can finally come around and see the point of view i was trying to get across the whole time? Unbelievable. Although I can finally post this without fear of being screamed at xD

The site is brilliant btw, give it a look and see how many FH people match up perfectly. And yes I'm on there too

 

[tris-]

wuld it be acceptable if science could come up with a way to preset this function at birth do you think?

by preset do you mean detect the 'abnormality' thus giving the parents a choice to abort or continue?

if they can do it for other genetic problems then why not for homosexuality, if it is indeed a genetic problem?

 

[Chronictank]

lol problem sorted you really do have to love the ignore settings on this forum, all of a sudden my headache evaporated and i can again get to reading posts that have some use/informative ideas with in with out being personally targetted.


anyway to those of you whos posts are still visable to me, I just wanted to see if any of you felt this was pushing it a bit, i must say though i am surprised at the number of people who think that sexual orientation is down to whether your brain functions properly or not. wuld it be acceptable if science could come up with a way to preset this function at birth do you think?

if you believe science only then being gay is wrong as they cant reproduce, therefore they will go extinct (like gay animals in the wild), therefore being gay is a genetic or mental flaw as it ensures the death of a subset of a species.

If however you put certain weight on faith and beliefs, in this situation being gay is considered as acceptable in society BUT you are no better than someone who believes in religion

 

[haarewin]

noone chooses to be gay. noone chooses to be straight. honestly, i dont see the big deal either way.
making someone adopt a particular lifestyle is wrong. but if people are going to him to try and fix themselves, when there is nothing to fix, well they can't help being stupid.

although i'd like to point out the only prejudice i've ever received is kids shouting 'ew, gayboy!', both at and out of school.

 

[Chronictank]

noone chooses to be gay. noone chooses to be straight. honestly, i dont see the big deal either way.
making someone adopt a particular lifestyle is wrong. but if people are going to him to try and fix themselves, when there is nothing to fix, well they can't help being stupid.

although i'd like to point out the only prejudice i've ever received is kids shouting 'ew, gayboy!', both at and out of school.

it is your opinion there is nothing to fix, it is just as valid argument to say there is something wrong with them as there is to say there isn't for the reasons highlighted in the previous posts

It is "stupid", to say that people who believe being gay is wrong are stupid as they are far from it if they have just as valid reasons against it that you have for it.

 

[Solo]

Think Jimmy Carr's approach is almost spot on

“I’m what’s referred to as a ‘gay friendly’ act. I’m a gay friendly act. I was asked, last November, to judge Mr. Gay UK. I said it would be my pleasure: It’s against nature, against god and he’s going to hell. I think it’s okay to tell that joke because it’s almost impossible to offend a homosexual male, cause let’s face it if your idea of a good time is a cock in your ass, what do you care?”

 

[Rookiescot]

by preset do you mean detect the 'abnormality' thus giving the parents a choice to abort or continue?

if they can do it for other genetic problems then why not for homosexuality, if it is indeed a genetic problem?

I remember reading a number of years ago about an American Scientist who claimed that gay people were missing a chromazone (sp?).
What caught my eye about this was that the Scientist had to go into hidding because of the number of death threats he had received over his findings.
Ultimately he said that it was a condition which could be treated.

Never heard much more about it and never investigated the matter. Hell he could have been sponsored by the American league of Neo-nazis Religious Fanatic society and his research could have been pure bullshit.

 

[CstasY]

Testosterone is masculinized by receptors in the brain called 'Androgen' receptors. Low counts of Androgen receptors, or above average counts can cause psychological effects. A common theory is that homosexuality is due to a variation of this. Therefore you COULD class it as a medical disorder.

I agree with both Nikon and tris in a way. The majority of homosexuals are unhappy with how they are, and wish they could change - Only a small percentage can actually deep down say, yeah I'm glad I'm gay, and fuck what anyone else thinks. Personally I do not see any problem with anyone (of religious or non-religious belief) offering help to homosexuals, and I'd bet that the christian bloke gets a lot of men in who want to change. I feel that homosexuality is over-publicised these days, and a lot of television dramas and soaps have actors playing in-your-face gay characters, who go around parading their sexuality as if everyone should be like that. It seems to be everywhere I look. Don't get me wrong, they have as much right to life as I do, but I'd honestly prefer it if they kept it slightly more quiet.

Afterall, it isnt 'normal'.

 

[noblok]

I believe that scientists have discovered the set of 'gay-genes' a while (year?) ago. I wouldn't go as far as calling it a malfunction though. Personally I find Freud's criterion a good one: if it stops you from working or enjoying yourself, it's something you should get treated. If there are homosexual people who's life is made so hard by their sexual orientation, then perhaps they should seek help. However, I am sceptical about his therapy actually working. I think it would probably be a better solution to reconcile these people's faith with their sexual orientation (e.g. through Thomistic tradition). I also find it quite odd that the 'science camp' is defending this man, whereas it's highly unlikely that he has any scientific studies supporting the effectiveness of his therapy.

if you believe science only then being gay is wrong as they cant reproduce, therefore they will go extinct (like gay animals in the wild), therefore being gay is a genetic or mental flaw as it ensures the death of a subset of a species.

I believe wrong isn't the right word to use in this context, because of it's moral connotation. Science doesn't offer a criterion for what is or is not morally right or wrong. If one thinks it does, this opinion isn't a scientific opinion, which means ultimately his ethics are based on an unscientific opinion. Soon'ish this probably won't matter anyway, as gay people will be able to reproduce through IVF. If they aren't already, I'm unsure about the legislation on this.

 

[Jeremiah]

i dont think insulting them will help. i mean. every (and i mean EVERY) part of the bible have had a scientific explanation as to why and how things happend. be it the birth of mother earth to the so called 7 dissasters or how many they were, and they still dont believe it. they are so brain washed theres no helping them.

P.S: speaking of thise religious fanatics here... the "normal" religious ppl actually have common sense enough to admit god ISNT the answer to everything. and that i dont have a problem with.

This saying came to mind when I read your post:

"Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt"?