Something that bothers me....

[RHWitch]

I know this is old.....but when peeps need stealthers they look for them who is on....but when there is none....you ever wonder why??? Cause no one bothers to group them, and i think that is sad....i have 45 ranger and cant even get a innis group... and i can out taunt a champ? have done so... we might have low hps but we can fight... and there is no reason that rangers and ns should not be able to get groups...TO many peeps think we are gimped but we do good...i personaly love grouping with rangers night shades..cause they can fight....so PEEPS give us rangers and nightshades a chance... we like to level too....but most time have to solo cause everyone thinks we are gimped..but personally we are not...so please when see ranger or ns out there group them...we need the shades ( all) out there in rvr but no one give chance to us..to level...thanks
thanks for listening....

 

[old.Niljindil]

Personally I just suck it up and solo

 

[VodkaFairy]

Well I was sick and tired of being turned down in groups every damn time, granted there even -was- a group forming in Innis. Decided to solo in DF every time it was open and that really helped lots. Made a big pile of money to afford SC'd armor and weapons + (reverse/reactive) procs. That's really recommended, with your great PvE gear which will cost around 1p you can almost powerlevel yourself.

The last few days/weeks were really amazing, I was actually invited in groups pretty often. Thanks -loads- for that, especially Xyna and CBH

What I'm trying to say is: Don't complain about it, won't change anything. Trust me: get a good set of AF96-ish armor and cap stats, hits, skills and melee resists and solo with it.

No matter how well rangers/nightshades can tank and pull aggro off other tanks, someone that is starting up a group prefers 3 shield/slash heroes than three stalkers.

This is coming from a level 46 nightshade with 21/22 days played.

Good luck

ps. The way of a stalker -is- lonely, if you can't stand solo'ing hour after hour you're probably better off with your hero or druid

edit+ pps. It's probably harder for rangers to get a group, nightshades are better tanks really. Evade 6 + 10% base chance to block (shield equipped) > Evade 2 + 10% base chance to block + RF.

 

[Amadon]

I try group rogues when I'm xping.
I just kinda got put off when a shade in my group refused to tank.. I mean wtf else is a shade going to do in a group? nuke?

 

[VodkaFairy]

Oh, and, try to get the CF people like Amadon to like you. They always have a couple of people ready that want to exp

/kiss Amadon/Ingen/Jahar and stormrider of course!!, etc

 

[Kobold]

About ranger, long time ago I leveled a ranger to 38. Tbh they ARE gimped in teams (like pbaoe teams), on the other side they are very good solo/duoers. I soloed my ranger all the way....And when I grouped I felt kinda useless in the team.

I made a NS not long ago....got him nice equipment and stuff and I must say OMG NS kick seriously butt! I tank as good as, if not better, than many other tanks like champs, BMs etc. Just get some SC armor and weap, and the right spec, and dam you kick ass. I'm amased about what an NS is able to do...and really start luving the class

 

[Darkdancer.]

Lol Kobold I seem to remember you saying shades were totally gimped on this board, changed yer mind?

 

[boni_ofdavoid]

Tough one, I always let a shade or ranger join when the group can support it, but basically when you play a character you have to accept its strengths and weaknesses. If you play a shade / ranger / void eld other 'pve gimped' class you have to accept that people dont want you, and theres no reason why they should take you on as a team member when you will be less efficient than a scale wearing tank or PBAOE.

Often I hear 'We should level the NS cause they will help hib at rvr'. To me NS are the last people I really want to level for rvr. Most seem to have very solo objectives that dont in of themselves help out 'the realm', they make very poor group characters, half the time they simply stay stealthed when the group meets trouble and then split (hey thanks for the lift to emain peeps).

To say a NS can tank or a ranger is partly true, these things are all in degrees. They can take some damage and can certainly get aggro, but they will cause extra strain on the healers, increasing downtime. A tanks job is to take pain, compare your AF, hit points, abs with a Hero or Champ, .. evade doesnt make up the loss.


When leveling my voidy I got really pissed of with :-
/send Boni u a PBAEO m8???
in the end I just soled the majority of my last 10 levels, and with SC and potions etc its more of an option now.

Best advice is that you wont get invited to a groups like the pve friendly classes, so its probably best to accept that instead of trying to change the world. Try and start groups yourself or accept the loney solo path to 50...

 

[Lessurl]

Originally posted by boni_ofdavoid


To say a NS can tank or a ranger is partly true, these things are all in degrees. They can take some damage and can certainly get aggro, but they will cause extra strain on the healers, increasing downtime. A tanks job is to take pain, compare your AF, hit points, abs with a Hero or Champ, .. evade doesnt make up the loss.

Also i've noticed a lot of people seem to forget the tank specific skills like protect/guard/intercept that rangers/ns's don't get. These skills (protect being very handy pve) are what make heroes/bms/champs much better tanks than ns's/rangers.
Saying that, i'm not against having any class in a grp, it's a game after all and so long as i'm havin fun i'm happy, who cares if xp isn't as uber as it could be. But like boni said, when u roll a class that doesn't fit into the perfect grp mould then u should be prepared for a tougher levellin experience. I was shocked at the amount of grp invites i got when lvlin my second char (bard) compared to the next to none i got first time through with my void eld.

 

[StormriderX]

Originally posted by VodkaFairy
Oh, and, try to get the CF people like Amadon to like you. They always have a couple of people ready that want to exp

/kiss Amadon/Ingen/Jahar, etc

pffft seems like you forgotten my mad fast pulls already

Originally posted by Amadon
I try group rogues when I'm xping.
I just kinda got put off when a shade in my group refused to tank.. I mean wtf else is a shade going to do in a group? nuke?

 

[VodkaFairy]

Originally posted by stormriderx
pffft seems like you forgotten my mad fast pulls already

/kiss Amadon/Ingen/Jahar and stormrider of course!!, etc

There, I edited the post just for you :wub:

 

[Amadon]

Originally posted by stormriderx
pffft seems like you forgotten my mad fast pulls already

Would those be the ones where all the healers and mages were oom and you decided to pull a glimmer knight or 20?
I need counselling to forget about your mad fast pulls ffs!

 

[VodkaFairy]

He didn't get us killed alot that time.. I think just once, maybe twice

 

[StormriderX]

Originally posted by Amadon
Would those be the ones where all the healers and mages were oom and you decided to pull a glimmer knight or 20?
I need counselling to forget about your mad fast pulls ffs!

those 20 knight pulls were freak one offs....every 10minutes

 

[Danya]

Storm you're even worse than tomaks at pulling and that's saying something!

 

[Amadon]

gotta hand it to him tho.. it is kinda fun

 

[StormriderX]

Originally posted by Danyan
Storm you're even worse than tomaks at pulling and that's saying something!

I don't think I've been so insulted in my life

/cry /cry /cry

 

[Aloca]

When i lvled my shade i was a great tank at lvl 1-20 maybe even lvl 30. from that the other classes is a bit better at tanking the mobs u often kill at that lvl until about lvl 42+ then u can tank anything your grp will decide to camp. (fins. ez mobs...)

 

[Aeiedil]

Originally posted by VodkaFairy
Well I was sick and tired of being turned down in groups every damn time, granted there even -was- a group forming in Innis. Decided to solo in DF every time it was open and that really helped lots. Made a big pile of money to afford SC'd armor and weapons + (reverse/reactive) procs. That's really recommended, with your great PvE gear which will cost around 1p you can almost powerlevel yourself.

The last few days/weeks were really amazing, I was actually invited in groups pretty often. Thanks -loads- for that, especially Xyna and CBH

What I'm trying to say is: Don't complain about it, won't change anything. Trust me: get a good set of AF96-ish armor and cap stats, hits, skills and melee resists and solo with it.

No matter how well rangers/nightshades can tank and pull aggro off other tanks, someone that is starting up a group prefers 3 shield/slash heroes than three stalkers.

This is coming from a level 46 nightshade with 21/22 days played.

Good luck

ps. The way of a stalker -is- lonely, if you can't stand solo'ing hour after hour you're probably better off with your hero or druid

edit+ pps. It's probably harder for rangers to get a group, nightshades are better tanks really. Evade 6 + 10% base chance to block (shield equipped) > Evade 2 + 10% base chance to block + RF.

ONLY 21/22!!!! YOU LUCKY B#### <cough>

im gonna be levelign shade #2 soon look out for Eilanna, robe-wearing staffshade coming to a thidranki near you

(figuring i can use a level 50 robe)

 

[Aloca]

Think i got to lvl 50 with 20+ days
Tho then i used my brothers ench to pl me from lvl 20-35
2nd i rvred ALOT at lvl 40-42

 

[Athralmall]

My NS hit 50 at around 22-23 days played. It had it's ups (constant groups a lot of nights) and it's downs (times when I just couldn't get a group for toffee).

Some people level assassins to jump on the bandwagon, some because of their play-style. (I started because of the second reason).

The main thing, is if you enjoy playing the class, you're much much more likely to withstand the levelling problems stalkers have. If you started to jump on the bandwagon, this becomes much harder (but not impossible, as noted by the number of them about)

In short, I am glad I stuck with my NS, playing at lvl 50 far outweighs the post-50 stress :great:

 

[Aloca]

Yea i think i had 1week of ignorance from grps, tho i think me rvring alot helped me as i got more known among others.
My tactics to get a grp in innis was. take horse there.
while on horse do /who gur and start asking every damn pep in area if u can join their grp.
If u can convice 2-3peps in a grp that u can join then u maybe can get them to help u convice the rest

 

[inuyasha]

well DD..

Originally posted by Darkdancer.
Lol Kobold I seem to remember you saying shades were totally gimped on this board, changed yer mind?

I also remember he did, i also said shades was useless at that time....

and its TOTALY correct! Shades was TOTALY useless before RAs, was ok with them and is now more then decent with SC sets as well. The best tank i ever had in my fins groups with Point was Diduseeme, annos nighthsade

Now...rangers just DO suck, they have low evade, low armor, low melee skills =)

 

[VodkaFairy]

Re: well DD..

Originally posted by inuyasha
I also remember he did, i also said shades was useless at that time....

and its TOTALY correct! Shades was TOTALY useless before RAs, was ok with them and is now more then decent with SC sets as well. The best tank i ever had in my fins groups with Point was Diduseeme, annos nighthsade

Now...rangers just DO suck, they have low evade, low armor, low melee skills =)

Ranger can still out tank you point

 

[Kicks]

I find grps very uninformed about the capabilies of shades, and ragers for that matter. Most ppl who grp with shades are never dissapointed they can hold a single mob BETTER than any bm, champ or Hero and now VW aswell. If pbaoe dmg is wot u want hire shades cos I guarentee your caster wont get no aggro (unless he/she is stupid).

My perfect grp would consist of:

Shield Hero
Shade
Shade
Pbaoe
Pbaoe
Druid (pref regrowth spec)
Bard
Warden

That grp would pwn all imo irrespective of lvl.

 

[findannain]

for the ranger part...his dmg lies in the bow...why put him in front line? cannot realy say since my ranger is still low but i watched auscia in combat (50 ranger) if the mob is to hard she drops the blades and goes to bow shooting...i must say the mob drops twice as fast as when she would just hit it (well maybe not twice as fast but still faster )

 

[boni_ofdavoid]

Originally posted by Kicks
I find grps very uninformed about the capabilies of shades, and ragers for that matter. Most ppl who grp with shades are never dissapointed they can hold a single mob BETTER than any bm, champ or Hero and now VW aswell. If pbaoe dmg is wot u want hire shades cos I guarentee your caster wont get no aggro (unless he/she is stupid).

My perfect grp would consist of:

Shield Hero
Shade
Shade
Pbaoe
Pbaoe
Druid (pref regrowth spec)
Bard
Warden

That grp would pwn all imo irrespective of lvl.

Errr no.

Tanking is about taking pain, not just getting aggro. There are no prizes for aggroing something 'better' than a hero, but there are for taking less damage. Soz, but the shades in this group would be better of as Heros all /guarding eachother and protecting the healer and intercept on the PBAOE.

Worst thing I see is when im in a group like the one you list and the shade gets aggro. 'Hey look at me I must be UBER tank, cause me get aggro of Hero!!!11'. Yeah, right....

Also... versatility... What is the point of having people with duplicate abilites? I believe that a void eld is a better 2nd mage than another pbaoe if both are skilled enough (mutual debuff), a mana ment could provide MR whille the bard plays endurance. A champ would be better than one of the heros for his debuffs and ability to pull quicky.

 

[Ruddyn]

Nevermind my wife Fin, you never commented about ol'Rudd in combat, and how the enemy fall before him!

Actually, they don't do that too often. Experience has taught me to use my bow and forget about my swords... leave the close and personal stuff to the professionals. Rangers just don't have the hit points or armour for it.

 

[inuyasha]

Originally posted by boni_ofdavoid
Errr no.

Tanking is about taking pain, not just getting aggro. There are no prizes for aggroing something 'better' than a hero, but there are for taking less damage. Soz, but the shades in this group would be better of as Heros all /guarding eachother and protecting the healer and intercept on the PBAOE.

Worst thing I see is when im in a group like the one you list and the shade gets aggro. 'Hey look at me I must be UBER tank, cause me get aggro of Hero!!!11'. Yeah, right....

Also... versatility... What is the point of having people with duplicate abilites? I believe that a void eld is a better 2nd mage than another pbaoe if both are skilled enough (mutual debuff), a mana ment could provide MR whille the bard plays endurance. A champ would be better than one of the heros for his debuffs and ability to pull quicky.

No, void eld is not better then another pbaoer
With the best energy debuff, the pbaoe deals 50% more damage, it takes normaly three more casts at least for the debuff to stick for both mages...and the void area just deal 1/4'th of the damage of a pbaoe mage on the paper Sooo, another pbaoe is easily better

The mana ment is more versiable then a pbaoer yes...but they still cant pbaoe, so cant really trade those either without slowing down the group. Unless you switch them with the bard, which make you offer endurance regen for an extra area dot, which of course is a decent change.

That champs would be better then heroes, naaah case no champ can fullspec shield the way the heroes can. Where heroes usually get 42shield for slam, and 50 in main weapon, they are usually a lot better at not taking damage then a champ, who also have to get 50 valor, and thus cant get shield to anywhere even 30+ at all.

And no...with dodger RA raised, good equipment and druid buffs, shades are not much worse then a cs champ or lw hero. They DO rock at getting aggro, and they do not get as much damage as you imagine. Those days are gone, and i am not lying when i said diduseeme was the best tank, as in got least damage AND helt the mob best, of all my fins groups. Even without the bubble he did fine. This is mainly case of high evade of course, as well as the eventual block if not cd specced.

Rangers however, does rarely use shield, does not have dodger, rarely spec defencive due to as someone said, the main damage IS in the bow, so they come out as the worst tanks in hib this days. At lower levels, rangers might outtank a shade case of armor difference, but once bubbles and such makes a part of reality, shades prove to come out the better.

 

[VodkaFairy]

Three shield tanks will hardly take damage at all because of extremely high blocking rate with guard sorted. As mentioned it's not a competition who can draw aggro off someone else, your job is to try to take as few hits as you can while keeping the mob in pbaoe and off your healers/casters.

No, a void eld isn't more effective in a group than a second pbaoe caster.

No, any non-shield specced class cannot be a better tank than a shield-specced one.

But, a group with with nightshades tanking or void elds nuking can still be very good. If you're grouped with nice people and have fun the time flies by and your exp bar rises fast. I think slow exp + fun > fast exp + boredom.

All this 'perfect group' nonsense can drive me nuts, that's why I used to be happy solo'ing often. Groups are almost always spoilt by stupid group politics.