Confused Somebody Care to explain UN Security Council Veto

[gmloki]

So I am sat here watching the news and I see that the UN (USA) has got its knickers in a right twist about Syria. China and Russia have veto'd a vote for some kind of sanction or something. Does this mean that the Chinese and the Ruskies are saying that they see people are being massacred on the streets but they don't give a fuck or am I missing something here ?

 

[Raven]

Well, he is a man after their own heart so....

 

[Aoami]

Surely the chinese caring about people in another country dying on the streets would be a huge hypocrisy?

 

[Mabs]

maybe their wish for no MORE "western" troops pottering around in what they consider their backyard/area of influence outweighs anything else ?

foreign policy is not that simple sadly

 

[Wij]

Russia sells weapons to Syria.

 

[Shagrat]

Always reminds me of an ace old game i liked called balance of power.

It's like mabs says its all about spheres of influence and not letting opposing ideologies get a foothold in areas where you have an influence. Russia/China don't want the west to gain any more of a foothold in the midle east and that drives all their decision in that area really

 

[Cadelin]

So I am sat here watching the news and I see that the UN (USA) has got its knickers in a right twist about Syria. China and Russia have veto'd a vote for some kind of sanction or something. Does this mean that the Chinese and the Ruskies are saying that they see people are being massacred on the streets but they don't give a fuck or am I missing something here ?

Not supporting something doesn't mean you are completely opposed to it.

The invasion of Iraq was justified because Saddam had violated previous UN resolutions. Libya was bombed because of a UN resolution.

 

[Zenith.UK]

It's interesting trying to find contrasting reportage about it all.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16892200
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/world/2012-02/05/c_122656650.htm
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/02/201224162422121856.html

Basically, western countries whine and wail about Russia and China "selling out" the Syrians. They talk about being held to ransom by the 2 countries in negative terms.
Russia and China say that the western countries are trying to force a regime change without thinking it through.

For comparison...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16104275
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/world/2011-12/10/c_122403749.htm
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2011/12/20111212104240988767.html
Another situation where one country's veto blocked an agreement. We got a different flavour in the reporting of that one though.

 

[ECA]

It's not like the US is any better - look at how they protect the criminal state of Israel.

 

[Uncle Sick]

It's not like the US is any better - look at how they protect the criminal state of Israel.

Every state is criminal. That's the nature of the beast.
I take Israel over Syria, though.

 

[Uncle Sick]

Every state is criminal. That's the nature of the beast.
"To what extent?" is the important question.

I don't get all this 'oh, not fair' shit, to be honest. Oh, the US backs Israel, so it's ok for China and Russia to veto the UN resolution concerning the Syrian government opposing a regime change with the UTMOST violence.

Last time I checked, Israel is the only thing coming close to a proper democracy in the middle east, complete with women's rights and all the other happy shit. Haven't seen protesting Israelis getting rolled over by tanks.

The US might be the most obvious support of Israel interests but do yourself a favor and see for yourself how most European countries have interest vested in this 'criminal' state.

Fuck that fairness shit? China is taking over African resources, Russia is playing its own game.
They're not the knights in shining armor here, trying to stand up for poor Assad.

I realize it's en vogue to bash the US and Israel, but there's a world of difference between these countries and Russia and China. ffs.

So what do we do? Empower the jihadists and let them have Israel? What inane bullshit.
Fuck off with that free Palestine shit. So the Israelis claimed their old turf back in the late 40ies? That's bad? Because 60 something years ago Palestinian goat farmers lived there.

Alright, ok. So reinstate their Palestine Wonderland? If you do that you might give Alsace-Lorraine back to Germany. After all the Germans won it fair and square in 1871. Get Hong Kong back while your at it. You worked so hard to snatch it away from the Chinese after all.

And when push comes to shove it's the United States that protects European interests just as much as its own. Lets have Iran block the Strait of Hormuz. You bitch about the gas prices now? See how that goes once all those carriers go somewhere else. Russia and China won't give a wet fuck how you guys are going to get to work in the morning.

This perfect world of Scouse where everything is fair and everyone gets along will never, ever exist with at least two human beings around to bash each others skull in.

That's the human condition.

We can just strive to steer the world into a somewhat straight direction. And part of that change of direction, is to get rid of people like Assad.

 

[ECA]

Sensitive much?

 

[Embattle]

It was always going to happen, in reality the right to veto should of been removed a long while a go.

 

[Raven]

Every state is criminal. That's the nature of the beast.
I take Israel over Syria, though.

I don't think there is all that much difference really. One kills protesters indiscriminately, the other shells civilians indiscriminately.

 

[Scouse]

It's not like the US is any better - look at how they protect the criminal state of Israel.

And vetoes any moves to remove the embargo against Cuba, despite losing democratic votes to the tune of 187 - 2....





Edit: Ewwww. I feel dirty linking to the "christian science monitor", but I'm hungover so cba finding an alternative

 

[TdC]

I take Israel over Syria, though.

100% out of curiosity....why?

 

[Uncle Sick]

100% out of curiosity....why?

Last time I checked, Israel is the only thing coming close to a proper democracy in the middle east, complete with women's rights and all the other happy shit.
Haven't seen protesting Israelis getting rolled over by tanks.

Mind you - I didn't mean it as in: the syrian people.
I was referring to the political system in power.

Sensitive much?

No, but I am rant-y as hell. :/

 

[Tuthmes]

Isrealy tanks just drive over Palestinian people.

 

[Scouse]

So the Israelis claimed their old turf back in the late 40ies?

What do you mean by their old turf?

 

[Gwadien]

What do you mean by their old turf?

- sort of a misquote but oh well.

All religions started in modern day 'Israel' by no right, it's not their turf, no fucking way, that's like a Christian suddenly demanding that he should be able to live in Israel, because that was his old turf.

In fact, can I go and live in India and take over? - Was a part of the British Empire at one point, and therefore, was 'our turf'.

Then again, it was pretty much our fault that all this shit in Israel is going on, haha.

 

[Raven]

No it wasn't.

 

[soze]

The Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry in 1946 was a joint attempt by Britain and the United States to agree on a policy regarding the admission of Jews to Palestine.

While we did not want them to create their own country the yanks did and we did not do much to stop it but we did help 100000 yews get out there so you can say we did play a role.

 

[Job]

Er we blockaded Palestine and basically fought Jewish terrorism.
You must remember about Jews, they believe they are the chosen people and the whole bible, commandments etc only applies to them, we are just fodder.

 

[Chilly]

I actually find jews quite offensive in some of their rites. Refusing to cook meals in the same ovens as us heathens seems completely insane, but I guess that's how they roll.

 

[Uncle Sick]

What do you mean by their old turf?

Lets play the take everything literally game then. I was also 100% serious about having tea and crumpets after
the RN blows the Revolutionary Guards out of the Strait of Hormuz by itself.

Do we really need the history play by play how the state of Israel was created?
We can if you want to.

And Israel shelling civilian neighborhoods? I wonder why they do that?
Oh, that's to counter the fucking rockets the Hezbollah is launching into Israeli neighborhoods every day.

What would you do? Just take it and be 'the better man'? No, if Ahmed doesn't report a rocket workshop in his
neighborhood to the proper authorities, he accepts a 155mm shell coming down his chimney in turn.


Edit: and since religion just reared its ugly head over this thread. I refer to nations, not religious cults believing in anthropomorphic creatures.

 

[Embattle]

In the end they are as bad as each other with innocent people killed on both sides as per normal.

 

[Uncle Sick]

In the end they are as bad as each other with innocent people killed on both sides as per normal.

I agree with this statement.


And I am not contradicting myself by agreeing.
I just believe there are offenders -a lot- worse than the US or Israel.

 

[Raven]

Yeah but they aren't quite as hypocritical.

 

[Embattle]

I think since the Arab league were on side it being vetoed was wrong but then I can't quite swallow the US making too much noise about it either, the ironic thing is that it might cause action to be taken any way.

 

[Genedril]

US frequently flexes it's veto with regards to Israel.

China and Russia were persuaded not to veto the Libya involvement as 'it wasn't for regime change'.

Libya has regime change and now people are surprised when Russia and China wont fall for it again?