So...

[Gordonax]

Originally posted by -RG-Jaond
They not op for a speed providing class, but as a stealther who know how to play it like Alpha they are.

So if ONE person plays the class really well then that means the class is overpowered? By that criteria, you could say that any class is overpowered.

Please stop, Jaond, you're just making yourself look silly.

 

[-RG-Jaond]

Originally posted by Fagane
So the top 2 RP earners of the last 2 months play an over powerd class?

Nerf Healers
Nerf Savages

Fagane

Wtf are you talking about?
I dont say that the player bringing in most rp plays overpowerd class. Gordonax asked for high-rp mincers and i showed some.

But savage is imo overpowerd

 

[Gordonax]

Originally posted by -RG-Jaond
Wtf are you talking about?
I dont say that the player bringing in most rp plays overpowerd class. Gordonax asked for high-rp mincers and i showed some.

No you didn't. You showed some mid-ranked rp earners. You showed that mincers earn a little more than SBs. Other than that, you showed nothing.

 

[-RG-Jaond]

Originally posted by Gordonax
So if ONE person plays the class really well then that means the class is overpowered? By that criteria, you could say that any class is overpowered.

Please stop, Jaond, you're just making yourself look silly.

No thats not what i say, I say thats a mincer is op in the stealther world. Not solo but in a stealther team, ok?

 

[Tranquil-]

Jaond, roll a fucking Minstrel yourself. They haven't got the stealthspec just "to have something extra". They have it to compensate for skills and abilities bards/skalds have that minstrels don't.

Still, it's stupid to compare classes with eachother just because all 3 have grouptargeted speed.

 

[Fagane]

Originally posted by -RG-Jaond
Sure and you then want to lose your sos and insta stun?

Sure, np there, if Healer/Skald loses insta CC to and Healer PR

Fagane

 

[Gordonax]

Originally posted by -RG-Jaond
No thats not what i say, I say thats a mincer is op in the stealther world. Not solo but in a stealther team, ok?

But the problem is that you're just not giving us any evidence for this point of view at all. If mincer/infil stealth teams were so wtfpwnd overpowered, you'd find mincers and infi's getting far more rps then they do because they would always win the stealthwars.

But that isn't happening. Mincers and infi's aren't leaping up the table of rp earners. You aren't getting large numbers of either class in the top 20 or 30 rp earners. In the top 100 rp earners for last week, there were 2 infis and 2 minstrels. There were 2 shadowblades.

Do you see the point? IF MINSTRELS WERE OVERPOWERED WITH STEALTH THEY WOULD HAVE MORE CHARACTERS WITH HIGH RPS!

 

[Xandax]

Originally posted by Gordonax

Do you see the point? IF MINSTRELS WERE OVERPOWERED WITH STEALTH THEY WOULD HAVE MORE CHARACTERS WITH HIGH RPS!

Possible because the stealther teams are to big for getting the "nice" RPs.
To many to divide the RPs.
And to many "hunters" compared to "prey".

 

[Gordonax]

Originally posted by Xandax
Possible because the stealther teams are to big for getting the "nice" RPs.
To many to divide the RPs.
And to many "hunters" compared to "prey".

If they're too big, then the problem is numbers, not over powered mincers.

 

[-fwapp-]

hmm how about if they have skalds stealth but took away their 2h ability and instead made them use a 1h and a small shield which is rly only there for decoration lol, would u b happy then? And instamezz if not purged lets the skald get away/rejen from ne fight.

 

[uglymug]

Re: Re: Re: So...

Originally posted by Gordonax
Because they're a rogue class? Because they're on a different damage table to skalds and hence hit like a wet lettuce? Because their mezz is castable, not insta? Because otherwise they'd be as boring to play as skalds?

And, once again, the facts: how many mincers were in the top 10 rps earners last week? None. How many in the top 20? None. You have to go down to number 33 to find the first minstrel. In the all-time list there's one - Alpha - in the top 30.

If minstrels are so uber they need a nerf, where are all the high rp mincers? So - other than "I got wtfpwnd by a mincer/infi duo once" - where's your evidence that mincers need a nerf? Give me some facts and figures, instead of just your half-baked opinions, and perhaps I'll respect what you're saying.

hohoho...where did i say mincers were uber? and wtfowned?? eh?

not that i need or desire your respect but let me explain to you what i was trying to say..

yes i know that mincers get stealth cus they're classified as rogue .. that's no explenation tho. My question was: why are they rogues?

I'm not saying this makes them overpowered, but i do question why they have it at all, as no other 'speed' class has this ability. Not that all realms should be the same, what's the fun in that right? but this just doesn't make sense to me.

also ... mincers hitting like a wet piece of greens ... s'pose skalds hit like a truck? not that i want skalds with stealth, or that i think that this will help skalds in any way, but even they got it ..mincer would still have more utility than the skald

mincers are not overpowered but have too many toys to play with..certainly compared to skalds (not compared to bards..who suffer from having too much utility perhaps)

 

[Xandax]

Originally posted by Gordonax
If they're too big, then the problem is numbers, not over powered mincers.

not excatly. You are trying to twist the statement.

You claim the combo(infil/mincer etc) and/or class itself isn't overpowered; because it isn't shown in the RP tables.

Then one can claim that the reason they aren't in the RP tables is because the amount of targets is to low and that they have to share the RPs with others.

Thus it isn't the numbers that are overpowering (although they proberly are - I've not checked duskwave lately).

A class can be overpowered and still not get loads of RP because their targets dwindle.
(note - I didn't say anything about the class being overpowered or not - although I fail to se the reasoning behind giving them wall-climb)

You can't read such things out of RP tables with out considering enermy population, hunting grounds, group sizing etc.

 

[Gordonax]

Re: Re: Re: Re: So...

Originally posted by uglymug
hohoho...where did i say mincers were uber? and wtfowned?? eh?

mincers are not overpowered but have too many toys to play with..certainly compared to skalds (not compared to bards..who suffer from having too much utility perhaps)

First up, apols for the rant at you: Jaond was, naturally, winding me up

I agree that mincers have lots of toys to play with - and that makes them a challenge to play, as well as making them fun to play. But what I want to see is more classes that are as much fun to play as mincers, not mincers having their fun aspects being taken away. Skalds, for example, need to have something that gives them more to do than just speed in groups. And there are other examples, in all three realms.

 

[-RG-Jaond]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So...

Originally posted by Gordonax
First up, apols for the rant at you: Jaond was, naturally, winding me up

 

[uglymug]

yup agreed ... that's why i started by stating to NOT nerf mincers

nerfing classes is teh suck ... they'd better start fixing the classes that are in need of some help..instead of killing of the classes that are fine by a nerf

 

[Gordonax]

Originally posted by Xandax
not excatly. You are trying to twist the statement.

You claim the combo(infil/mincer etc) and/or class itself isn't overpowered; because it isn't shown in the RP tables.

Then one can claim that the reason they aren't in the RP tables is because the amount of targets is to low and that they have to share the RPs with others.

Thus it isn't the numbers that are overpowering (although they proberly are - I've not checked duskwave lately).

A class can be overpowered and still not get loads of RP because their targets dwindle.
(note - I didn't say anything about the class being overpowered or not - although I fail to se the reasoning behind giving them wall-climb)

You can't read such things out of RP tables with out considering enermy population, hunting grounds, group sizing etc.

Thanks for the explanation: I see what you mean better now (I thought you just meant that stealthers were working in bigger groups, hence less rps).

I think you're probably right that the numbers of targets who aren't steathers is getting low. But I'm not sure that the numbers of stealthers - who, after all, are the prime targets of other stealthers - is getting lower. Whenever I've run through AMG solo there always seems to be quite a few that try and get me

But it still doesn't add up. If the number of rps being delivered by stealthing dropped, mincers wouldn't bother doing it - unlike infi's and SBs, they are a much-needed character in regular groups, and would thus go there to get their rps.

As for why mincers got climb walls, I don't know. I don't think it radically affects keep taking - certainly, it doesn't seem to over power Albs too much. Perhaps Mythic's reasoning was that mincers were the only class with stealth that had no role at all in keep takes previously. I don't think it's a big deal overall.

 

[Gordonax]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So...

Originally posted by -RG-Jaond

Wipe that grin off your face before I come kick your ass with my overpowered fotm character...

 

[bob007]

Re: Re: Re: Re: So...

Originally posted by uglymug
not that i need or desire your respect but let me explain to you what i was trying to say..

yes i know that mincers get stealth cus they're classified as rogue .. that's no explenation tho. My question was: why are they rogues?

Question for the game devs i think. I'd have prefered to be a fighter base tbh

I'm not saying this makes them overpowered, but i do question why they have it at all, as no other 'speed' class has this ability. Not that all realms should be the same, what's the fun in that right? but this just doesn't make sense to me.

Skald: no other speed class has the abilty to switch between "songs" without changing an instrument.

also ... mincers hitting like a wet piece of greens ... s'pose skalds hit like a truck? not that i want skalds with stealth, or that i think that this will help skalds in any way, but even they got it ..mincer would still have more utility than the skald

Hit harder then me

mincers are not overpowered but have too many toys to play with..certainly compared to skalds (not compared to bards..who suffer from having too much utility perhaps) [/B]

We have a few nice toys yes, But skalds have damage add, we don't. Skalds have resist shouts, we don't. Skalds don't carry 2+ instruments. I think giving them that would see how hard it can be at time to play a minstrel compared to skald. But it no use comparing them in the end anyway. They only thing they have in common is SS5.

 

[old.Lethul]

hmm, i remember a long time ago when i rolled my hunter. I was told they had chain in beta but it got removed cause you have to be quite when stealth and chain made alot of noise when moving. Therefor no stealthed class could have chain, or was it when chosing hunter? cant remember tbh

 

[-RG-Jaond]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So...

Originally posted by Gordonax
Wipe that grin off your face before I come kick your ass with my overpowered fotm character...

Haha i love you to well work over now cya in daoc else we can fight about how fotm you are on monday /salute

 

[Nazghul-]

Originally posted by Gordonax
If they're too big, then the problem is numbers, not over powered mincers.

Weak logic. Might convince a 5 year-old.

 

[uglymug]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So...

Originally posted by bob007
Question for the game devs i think. I'd have prefered to be a fighter base tbh

Skald: no other speed class has the abilty to switch between "songs" without changing an instrument.

We have a few nice toys yes, But skalds have damage add, we don't. Skalds have resist shouts, we don't. Skalds don't carry 2+ instruments. I think giving them that would see how hard it can be at time to play a minstrel compared to skald. But it no use comparing them in the end anyway. They only thing they have in common is SS5.

fighters baseclass would have made more sense ..yup

and the switching of instruments is a good point .. .which i overlooked, making the skald much more use full as tank (also mids ability to have 1h/2h in one weaponspec works in their favour)

but the damage ad may be great in pve, but sucks in rvr. range too short..so in the end only effecting the skald and a handful (if any) of his group. most skalds i've grouped with just play the speedsong and let a RM or shammy give a timed damadd (something a fair number of alb classes get as a baseline spell, but RM's and shammies have to spec in to get)

only ever seen skalds run the resists when i was in the most unlikely of groups with 3 skalds

but they have the option to use these abilities, even tho they don't get used much in rvr

skalds are the most tanklike of all the 3 speedclasses (i do think comparing these classes is valid .. altho they shouldn't all be the same)..and because of this skalds may be easier to play than a mincer...but certainly not more fun

 

[Gordonax]

Originally posted by Nazghul-
Weak logic. Might convince a 5 year-old.

My suggestion is read the rest of the thread, then comment

 

[Glottis_Xanadu]

Good thing for the Mid noobs to start bitching now.
Imagine how uber mincers will be once they get their lvl 50 DD that does a massive 10hp more damage every 15s.
They really, really need to be nerfed.

I mean, as soon as a minstrel starts hitting a healer or so in a group, they all start to worry...

A minstrel is needed in the stealth wars cause Mids don't duo anymore, they group with 7 others.
You need CC to slay atleast one...
Regards, Glottis

 

[lorric]

Originally posted by Glottis_Xanadu
Good thing for the Mid noobs to start bitching now.
Imagine how uber mincers will be once they get their lvl 50 DD that does a massive 10hp more damage every 15s.
They really, really need to be nerfed.

I mean, as soon as a minstrel starts hitting a healer or so in a group, they all start to worry...

A minstrel is needed in the stealth wars cause Mids don't duo anymore, they group with 7 others.
You need CC to slay atleast one...
Regards, Glottis

hahaha and albs never ever groups ever!

 

[behatch]

Originally posted by Glottis_Xanadu
Good thing for the Mid noobs to start bitching now.
Imagine how uber mincers will be once they get their lvl 50 DD that does a massive 10hp more damage every 15s.
They really, really need to be nerfed.

I mean, as soon as a minstrel starts hitting a healer or so in a group, they all start to worry...

A minstrel is needed in the stealth wars cause Mids don't duo anymore, they group with 7 others.
You need CC to slay atleast one...
Regards, Glottis

lmfao,think u'll find when 8 mids stealth zerg its to remove one,usually anyway sometimes its just fun,especially when all the kids are on adding like flys on shit

 

[foeewithin]

Originally posted by Ekydus
They have stealth to balance out your instas, K?

fear skald's instas

 

[Ekydus]

Originally posted by foeewithin
fear skald's instas

Dear God I feel like you registered just for me.
I feel like I've known you all my life.
I feel like you know me inside out and oh dear God I think you're the most intelligent player to ever purchase a computer game and browse a forum!

 

[behatch]

Originally posted by Ekydus
Dear God I feel like you registered just for me.
I feel like I've known you all my life.
I feel like you know me inside out and oh dear God I think you're the most intelligent player to ever purchase a computer game and browse a forum!

omg sarcasm meter off the charts!

 

[Ekydus]

Originally posted by behatch
omg sarcasm meter off the charts!

I heard everytime that happens I'm meant to get a medal.