[QUESTION] so what now for Norn?

[Tallen]

seeing as BWs are topic du jour
are you really claiming there is little difference between someone wearing
Annihilator Firecaller's Robes - Item Sets - Warhammer Online
and someone wearing
Warlord's Firecaller Robes - Item Sets - Warhammer Online
?!
.

No significant difference really, a shit player in the best kit will never compare to a good player in shit kit.

 

[Tallen]

tried attacking a fort boss without ward gear?

u lived long huh?

Talking pvp and you know it

 

[Tallen]

using daoc as a comparision is totally flawed

-in theory-

A v B is always going to be out of balance
A v B v C will often have the smallest aid the middle one against the biggest so it can be somewhat of a counterweight

which is why WAR suffers so much, 3 sides best.. but way harder to balance

No, it's a perfect example as were talking realm pride and an example of how a community stayed with a game for 6 years struggling against superior odds, nothing more.

 

[Tallen]

Order classes are far superior to destruction equivalents, that doesn`t help for a start. Bonus's to order when they were slightly down on numbers and yet no bonuses to destr now we`re massively outnumbered ... ?

This game always needed 3 sides but it's too late for that so no point bringing it up now. What the game needs is well balanced classes on both sides and then the population to settle down, without balance the pop won`t settle and one side will die.

think on it:
engineer v magus lol
ironbreaker v black orc lol
shadow warrior v squiggy lol
white lion v marauder lol
runepriest v zealot double lol
warrior priest v dok lol

And so on, however, 1 class that proves the rule in my experience choppa is much more powerful slayer.

Far Superior? You honestly think that?

So....unless i miss my guess here, your claiming the RP is significantly more powerful than the zealot?

I play both at 40, your wrong, Zealot is the slightly better class and i would argue with a few of your other claims here as well especially as you don't even seem to know the mirrors....

 

[Mabs]

No significant difference really, a shit player in the best kit will never compare to a good player in shit kit.

wow really ? and a lvl 40 is more use than a lvl 1..
were talking about GEAR not people...

2 people of the same competancy is implied in the statement, nice try tho!

also for the love of god tallen, learn to multiquote

 

[Flimgoblin]

Zealot is the slightly better class

I'd love to hear the reasoning behind that one...

Take a runepriest, remove its survivability, tie half its spec line abilities to a buggy single target debuff and you get a Zealot. Hurrah!

 

[Tallen]

wow really ? and a lvl 40 is more use than a lvl 1..
were talking about GEAR not people...

2 people of the same competancy is implied in the statement, nice try tho!

also for the love of god tallen, learn to multiquote

Missing the point fella, were not talking just about gear, were talking about gear being a game breaking factor...which it isn't.

Some gear is better than others but in the grand scheme of things it makes little significant difference when your in orvr, certainly at the moment when alot of kit has some very unusual stats...other than in PvE instances ofc

 

[Grotnob]

...stuff...

...and a good player using a character in full king gear will kick the shit out of a good player in Darkpromise, which is currently the best armour you can get hold of outside of Fortresses and Cities and Kings. All else being equal, gear does give you a clear advantage. If Darkpromise gear was no better than Annihilator, why would anyone bother to grind the city dungeons to get the Sentinel gear they need in order to go and grind Lost Vale to get it?

On that note, seeing as the city dungeons require either a four or five star city, once the king dies, the losing realm won't even be able to get Sentinel gear for a while. You seriously suggesting that doesn't place that realm at a crippling disadvantage?

Seriously, you can bash your epeen on the desk and crow about how Destruction are only losing because they're shit and they lack backbone and it's got nothing to do with being outnumbered (which is essentially what you're implying throughout your posts), but people will only play a game for as long as it's fun to do so - especially one they're paying to play. Getting reamed by superior numbers of Order on a regular basis is not something people are going to want to pay for long term.

Don't get me wrong - Order's not winning because of anything they're deliberately doing, so it's not Order's fault. It's down to game design, chiefly, made worse by badly maintained population and class balance.

 

[Tallen]

I'd love to hear the reasoning behind that one...

Take a runepriest, remove its survivability, tie half its spec line abilities to a buggy single target debuff and you get a Zealot. Hurrah!

Either way it is still not "Far Superior", not by a long shot.

Half it's spec line? I hardly think so.

I play em as group healers and in that role they are almost identical.

Flash of Chaos - Abilities - Warhammer Online
Grungni's Gift - Abilities - Warhammer Online

Tzeentch's Cordial - Abilities - Warhammer Online
Rune Of Regeneration - Abilities - Warhammer Online

Elixir Of Dark Blessings - Abilities - Warhammer Online
Rune Of Restoration - Abilities - Warhammer Online

etc

Discussing the classes relative survivability merits would take a long time and it is, again, not significant. Realistically neither has much survivability.

The only relevant and significant difference for me is morale abilities, and imo the Zealot has the better Morale 3 and 4, certainly for the way i play the classes.

I know a lot of Zealots bitch about them being bottom of the healing food chain, but honestly they are competing with DoK's and Shammys whereas a RP is often only really dealing with WP's as many order AM's think they are ArchMAGES and want to DPS.

That plus THE main difference...the RP looks gay and the Zealot looks awesome

 

[Tallen]

...and a good player using a character in full king gear will kick the shit out of a good player in Darkpromise, which is currently the best armour you can get hold of outside of Fortresses and Cities and Kings. All else being equal, gear does give you a clear advantage. If Darkpromise gear was no better than Annihilator, why would anyone bother to grind the city dungeons to get the Sentinel gear they need in order to go and grind Lost Vale to get it?

On that note, seeing as the city dungeons require either a four or five star city, once the king dies, the losing realm won't even be able to get Sentinel gear for a while. You seriously suggesting that doesn't place that realm at a crippling disadvantage?

Seriously, you can bash your epeen on the desk and crow about how Destruction are only losing because they're shit and they lack backbone and it's got nothing to do with being outnumbered (which is essentially what you're implying throughout your posts), but people will only play a game for as long as it's fun to do so - especially one they're paying to play. Getting reamed by superior numbers of Order on a regular basis is not something people are going to want to pay for long term.

Don't get me wrong - Order's not winning because of anything they're deliberately doing, so it's not Order's fault. It's down to game design, chiefly, made worse by badly maintained population and class balance.

I don't completely disagree with you on any particular point.

Gear does indeed give a slight advantage, no-one would argue with that but not having that kit won't put you at a "crippling disadvantage".

Also I have never intentionally implied anything you claim, although i can see how you come to that conclusion because you seem quite blinkered on that particular subject and seem to be taking the comments as a personal criticism of your realm...which was not the intent nor the point of the comments you are referring too. I could just as easily have been referring to a different server where Order have the greater numbers, but, again, thats not the point at all.

 

[Ctuchik]

certainly at the moment when alot of kit has some very unusual stats...

Weapon skill on magus gear for the fucking WIN! >.<

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Weapon skill on magus gear for the fucking WIN! >.<

As if by magic, a shopkeeper appeared.

Don't get me started on that one

Going back to the original topic of discussion, Karak-Norn is no different from anywhere else really. Mythic botched balance big time in 1.2 and introduced some new and improved lag.

They have one patch to sort it.

 

[Jaberwocky]

As if by magic, a shopkeeper appeared.

Don't get me started on that one

I suddenly went on a 10 min Mr Ben flash back, a pleasant way to start a Sunday off.

 

[Bugz]

Order classes are far superior to destruction equivalents, that doesn`t help for a start. Bonus's to order when they were slightly down on numbers and yet no bonuses to destr now we`re massively outnumbered ... ?

This game always needed 3 sides but it's too late for that so no point bringing it up now. What the game needs is well balanced classes on both sides and then the population to settle down, without balance the pop won`t settle and one side will die.

think on it:
engineer v magus lol
ironbreaker v black orc lol
shadow warrior v squiggy lol
white lion v marauder lol
runepriest v zealot double lol
warrior priest v dok lol

And so on, however, 1 class that proves the rule in my experience choppa is much more powerful slayer.

Sweet jesus that made me laugh.

Go get a fuckin clue outside of t1.

 

[Ctuchik]

i can vote for the engineer vs magus part

i dont think i have ever managed to 1v1 a engineer on my magus. sure the engi might die from the dots AFTER i'm dead. but in no way can a magus walk away from a fight with a engi and have the engi dead

i'm not even sure a magus can 1v1 any class atleast not when it comes to equal skill and such crap.

you know anything about that Roo?

 

[pikeh]

shadow warrior v squiggy lol

I can't comment on any of the others you mentioned, but you are so so so so far wrong on this one.

Engis and WP's sure are very very powerful, but I'd say the others are even/slighty in destros favour.

 

[`mongoose]

engineer v magus lol
ironbreaker v black orc lol
shadow warrior v squiggy lol
white lion v marauder lol
runepriest v zealot double lol
warrior priest v dok lol

BW are still superior in many ways to Sorcs.
Engineers have way more utility and non los requiring skills than magi. (Either that or the engineers hitting me INSIDE the lords room in a keep every sodding day from the ground outside are exploiting little fucktards.)
Warrior Priest is still superior to DoK as a healer. I believe the DoK is better for dps. (this is hearsay though - my dok bored me to tears and never made it past lvl 7 and my warrior priest is still sat at lvl 1 on char creation screen)

now... the others are close or the wrong way around.
Squig herder is massively better than a shadow warrior. Mythic have acknowledged that the shadow warrior is one of the classes they're looking at next. (god help us)

White Lions used to be able to beat my marauder by using the fetch ability and then blindsiding me. Even then it was only a few who could do it and I'm not a great player. Now the white lion is below the marauder which Mythic themselves admit they've pretty much castrated as a class with global changes affecting (and nerfing the crap out of) key marauder and wl skills. The disorientate change whilst necesarry has had a nasty side effect to both WL and Marauders in removing a vital damage mitigation ability. Considering both classes were consider if not balanced - in need of a boost before 1.2 you can imagine how they feel after the boosts to other classes in 1,2 combined with a decrease in their utility and nerfing of their "signature" moves.

I'd say IB vs BO is pretty even although they're not actually the mirrors.

The mirrors are
SM - Black orc (stance mechanic)
KOTBS - Chosen (Auras mechanic)
IB - Black Guard (Grudge/hate mechanic)

I think until recently the Bo was infinitely superior to the Sm and the IB was way better than any other tank in game. Now I think the IB is slightly bugged as Grudges don't seem to be generating properly robbing the class of it's killer abilities according to the IB forums. Having said that they're still tough little buggers and very very good tanks. SM's are (according to sm's) better now although I still think there's a few things that need looking at.

Anyways - I wrote my post minutes after Order hit IC for the second time in 2 days in the middle of a week. They'll be doing it again this week I am sure. I'm not happy about it but I'm not as emo about it either. Saturday and Sunday I spent most of my time in game in T4 zones fighting order and I was very pleased with what we as a realm managed to accomplish.

I do believe, however, that the domination needs to be looked at. If one side can lock zones and assault a capital city between the hours of 8am and 4pm thus denying their opponents much chance of defence and many of their realm mates the opportunity of phat lewt then I think the mechanic is broken and it needs revising. I know if the pendulum swings the way of destro I'll probably hate myself for nerfing the chance of phat lewt but I think there needs to be a bit more opportunity for realms to defend their capital cities.

M

 

[Ctuchik]

I do believe, however, that the domination needs to be looked at. If one side can lock zones and assault a capital city between the hours of 8am and 4pm thus denying their opponents much chance of defence and many of their realm mates the opportunity of phat lewt then I think the mechanic is broken and it needs revising. I know if the pendulum swings the way of destro I'll probably hate myself for nerfing the chance of phat lewt but I think there needs to be a bit more opportunity for realms to defend their capital cities.

M

i'm just happy order aint all that great players once they are inside the city. they seem to have MASSIVE cooperation problems when they aint in their megazerg.