[QUESTION] so what now for Norn?

`mongoose

One of Freddy's beloved
Joined
Jan 9, 2004
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957
Hi Guys

A question here for those of you who (like me) are sat disappointed to hear that yet again, whilst we're at work, Order daytime players have managed to not only lock t4 but also successfully take two forts.

It seems as though the move from Hirn to Norn has resulted in a large number of order players being online from around 12 noon during the week. I don't know how or why but with the domination system as it stands the "fight" for today at tier 4 is effectively over before the majority of the working players can login.

I don't know what to say really. It's unfair to expect people who play around a different timezone than me to forgoe the pleasures of orvr just so I get to play when i get in from work but it's equally unappealing to see that there literally is no point in orvr this evening without even logging in.

I dunno - maybe it's a whine or something but surely this isn't what was expected by war? All your base are belong to us by breakfast?

M
 

Ctuchik

FH is my second home
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they are so desperate to get the server first city capture they are probably calling in sick en masse. they know they will fail if they do it in a sportsmanship manner so they sink as low as they can without being blamed for AC'ing it.

i'd say let the poor bastards have it. they are probably sitting there crying in frustration by now.
 

Faeldawn

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 27, 2003
Messages
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This was always going to be the problem with the domination system, most of us realised that it would encourage AC raiding as soon as it was announced and, true to form, it has.

I play Norn order and it was a bit annoying to be raiding the first fort at 2pm yesterday when there weren't many destro around. However, this being said, the second fort raid (which was at primetime) was so incredibly laggy that many players simply left the zone in disgust.

So raid off-peak hours and get to take the fort or fight the lag of a primetime raid, neither are really ideal situations.

Oh, and FYI, yesterday's 2pm fort raid destro simply did not turn up to defend, there were 1-2 WB's in TM at the time pveing bo's....
 

klasa

Loyal Freddie
Joined
Mar 3, 2005
Messages
250
Was in IC on Norn yesterday. If that is the prime time end game GOA wanted to show us who had to leave Karak Hirn, that lag fest was so disgusting I left after one public quest.

That end game is such a bore, unfortuenately there is no one left to fight outside IC so the only thing to do was to start leveling alts.

Hope they fix the piece of shit they call end game. Cant we just get a medallion or something when we take a fort and then reset the zones ASAP so we can just have some proper rvr in a normal lag enviornment.

End game NO THANKS MYTHIC IT SUCKS
 

Mabs

J Peasemould Gruntfuttock
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Dec 22, 2003
Messages
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they got repelled.. not sure if that a good thing

oh and for the record..

"order are on the maw defend it with your lives"
|
|
|
\/
"the maw lies in ruins"

14 mins
 

`mongoose

One of Freddy's beloved
Joined
Jan 9, 2004
Messages
957
This was always going to be the problem with the domination system, most of us realised that it would encourage AC raiding as soon as it was announced and, true to form, it has.

I play Norn order and it was a bit annoying to be raiding the first fort at 2pm yesterday when there weren't many destro around. However, this being said, the second fort raid (which was at primetime) was so incredibly laggy that many players simply left the zone in disgust.

So raid off-peak hours and get to take the fort or fight the lag of a primetime raid, neither are really ideal situations.

Oh, and FYI, yesterday's 2pm fort raid destro simply did not turn up to defend, there were 1-2 WB's in TM at the time pveing bo's....
I was off yesterday playing an alt at 2pm. it was 10 minutes between the message saying order were on the fort and it falling. logging off, logging back in, flying to zone... No chance of getting in and the fort fell as I arrived. There was no 2 warbands at 2pm, you're thinking of our single warband + maybe 2 groups of randoms during the afternoon push in chaos lands.

As regards the second keep take. Our "warband" of 3 groups took a BO in Chaos Wastes at 16:30. This we reasoned would set order back 40 minutes so we then flew to thunder mountain and took everything in the hope that it would pull the randoms over to try and farm us at the keeps. It didn't work, we returned and were outnumbered massively. There was at one point two warbands roaming the zone, a warband on the camp it seems and players to spare in the keeps.

We managed to flick one bo but couldn't hold it and then I got disconned in the maw, when I got back it was full. We left the zone because we were lucky - we'd taken a BO because order didn't expect it and by the time they noticed we were able to hold out for the lock time. We managed this twice during the 2 hours we were fighting there.

We realised once we'd taken the BO that you guys were waiting for us and we were heavily outnumbered. We couldn't fight in the zone because your vp's were high and we were stalling whilst screaming for numbers.

I realise that you probably got confused about the 2pm and 4pm pushes but trust me - I know how pitiful our defence was because I was banging my head against a brick wall trying to help it.

I'm glad I was in work today although I have to say it pisses me off that yet again out of prime time raiding get's "rewards" for order. If the servers weren't so shit you guys would've been into stage 2.

D
 

civy

One of Freddy's beloved
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Feb 3, 2004
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When I login at night and see High order and Med Dest I get a sinking feeling. I'm having no fun in T4 atm so lvling a alt. I logged a 40 for a little PVP for the first time in a week lastnight. 30 mins later I was back on a alt.

Dunno what to say. Options are scrap the domination and go back to Pre-made SC's /yawn or keep domination and avoid T4.

I cant see why this is so complicated. In DAoC pre nf, relic keeps were open for capture 24/7. Yet it was balanced so it had to be a planned assault. Keep takes were syncronised and forces were moved with stealth. The whole thing felt like a operation and not a grind fest.

Maybe they should scrap zone locking and open up all 3 zones in a pairing and make the keeps influence the difficulty of the forts. I'm sure this would make it alot more interesting having 9 zones to fight over.

Again I dunno. But something had better change soon or like I said in another post the population is gonna crash.
 

Tallen

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Mar 2, 2004
Messages
3,358
The fundimental problem is the end-game grind.

In DAoC Mythic got away with using grinds as an excuse for not introducing proper content to the game (grind to 50, grind ml's, grind your artis, grind the xp on those, grind champ xp...hmm, all done with that? lets give you ANOTHER 5 champ levels to grind...bla bla), Warhammer is demostrating in big flashy lights what a sub-par mmo development/support company Mythic truly are.

Terrible lag, hopelessly bad endgame grind fests (oh, wait, thats content...right?) and a very poorly thought-out pvp system which is basically DAoC with bells-on, but without any of the refinements.

For some insane reason, I STILL love this game, but i hate T4 with a growing passion and am running out of slots for my lvl 31 toons :(
 

Kami

Part of the furniture
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Dec 22, 2003
Messages
2,254
It's a 24/7 game, fight for domination isn't over, fact is once they have IC or Altdorf it resets 2 hours later and it starts again.

Personally I'd much rather it took DAYS to capture a capital rather than a couple of hours, at least everyone can then be involved.
 

Ctuchik

FH is my second home
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This killed Hirn, it will now kill Norn.
and GOA will pat themself on the back thinking "Damn we rock!"

hirn may have had issues but in the lights of how fucked up norn is i'd give anything to be back on my old server.

atleast hirn didnt lag me to death every 5 minutes in T4 when i'm trying to level up in the only zone i still have reasonable quests in.
 

Tallen

Fledgling Freddie
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Fort attempt for destro at the maw at the moment, we simply didn't even bother going, instead having a blast in KV :)

Until they fix the lag, i certainly won't be going to another fort attempt.
 

Ctuchik

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pretty ammusing tho how Mythic has praised themself over the server stability only for this shit to happen when a server is actually full :)
 

Lollie

Loyal Freddie
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went on the ic raid on hrin, was utter wank then without the lag, got no intention of going on norn or defending altdorf when it burns, but i will try and defend keeps to stop destro getting lock, thats where the "fun" lies atm ( that and t3 :) )
 

Grotnob

Fledgling Freddie
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pretty ammusing tho how Mythic has praised themself over the server stability only for this shit to happen when a server is actually full :)
Mythic's servers are stable, apparently.

What troubles me more is the fact that for some reason, Order on Norn has the Destro fortresses and IC on farm. Ok, they've not killed Tchar'zanek yet, but it's only a matter of time before Destro are so damned demoralised and diminished as a result that there will be no way to stop Order doing so. Then they'll have a ready source of King gear on their daily IC raid.

King gear is far and away better than anything else, if the rumours are to be believed.

Does this not mean that someone wearing King gear will be far and away better than someone not wearing king gear? So as one side starts to win, they will in theory continue to win, until the point where they flat cannot be stopped by the other side. It's like out-teching your opponents in Total War or Civ. This is great if you're on the winning side, but once the losing side have gotten frustrated and cancelled, where does that leave the server, or indeed the game?

I think Mythic have created an MMO where it's possible to win the war, and that's really not good for a game which relies on the RvR for it's longevity.
 

Tallen

Fledgling Freddie
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Mythic's servers are stable, apparently.

What troubles me more is the fact that for some reason, Order on Norn has the Destro fortresses and IC on farm. Ok, they've not killed Tchar'zanek yet, but it's only a matter of time before Destro are so damned demoralised and diminished as a result that there will be no way to stop Order doing so. Then they'll have a ready source of King gear on their daily IC raid.

King gear is far and away better than anything else, if the rumours are to be believed.

Does this not mean that someone wearing King gear will be far and away better than someone not wearing king gear? So as one side starts to win, they will in theory continue to win, until the point where they flat cannot be stopped by the other side. It's like out-teching your opponents in Total War or Civ. This is great if you're on the winning side, but once the losing side have gotten frustrated and cancelled, where does that leave the server, or indeed the game?

I think Mythic have created an MMO where it's possible to win the war, and that's really not good for a game which relies on the RvR for it's longevity.
WAR is not really an equipment essential game like DAoC was, you can kill someone in the top gear while wearing relatively naff kit with no real issue.

As for the ability to win the game, 6 months and no-one has managed it yet and if players have no backbone and get demoralised and leave because they are losing then im afraid they are playing the wrong mmo in the first place and should try out Hello Kitty or WoW where they can happily pve away. The fundimental problem for Mythic is that IF their playerbase turns out to be so fickle that they cannot handle a little adversity, then the game was probably always eventually doomed to failure.

I think you give the majority of the players of this game too little credit, most will, when losing, fight back and get organised, you'd be surprised how many player thrive on being the underdogs (VIVA HIBERNIA!!). Also i think most players have much thicker skin and won't simply leave because they are, overall, losing at the moment.
 

rynnor

Rockhound
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I agree with Tallen - it can be fun to be the underdog - its more satisfying to defeat an enemy with superior numbers and it is quite possible.

The smaller force is forced to communicate and innovate where conversely the larger force becomes sloppy and ill disciplined - its just a natural part of these games.

I think the key problem is the lag and crashes - sort those and the rest will sort itself out.
 

Mabs

J Peasemould Gruntfuttock
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WAR is not really an equipment essential game like DAoC was, you can kill someone in the top gear while wearing relatively naff kit with no real issue.
seeing as BWs are topic du jour
are you really claiming there is little difference between someone wearing
Annihilator Firecaller's Robes - Item Sets - Warhammer Online
and someone wearing
Warlord's Firecaller Robes - Item Sets - Warhammer Online
?!


I agree with Tallen - it can be fun to be the underdog - its more satisfying to defeat an enemy with superior numbers and it is quite possible.

The smaller force is forced to communicate and innovate where conversely the larger force becomes sloppy and ill disciplined - its just a natural part of these games.

I think the key problem is the lag and crashes - sort those and the rest will sort itself out.
oh my bad i thought you were about lvl 18 rynnor, didnt realise you have a 40.
 

Mabs

J Peasemould Gruntfuttock
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nah
i just think people passing commentry on the state of "tier 4" on Norn should actually have -played- it before making statements about what they think is "wrong" with it

/edit
but if you think that is the reason, are you really on that much of a power trip ? oh dear !
 

Flimgoblin

It's my birthday today!
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I think the key problem is the lag and crashes - sort those and the rest will sort itself out.
Several key problems ;)

Lag and crashes are pretty high up there, they make it unfun for everyone playing.

But they're just hiding the fact that (whichever side) AoE classes and some oil makes a keep take impossible, that Order on Norn are happy to open up a City mid-afternoon and that since 1.2 for whatever reasons* Norn/Order has a huge numbers advantage in T4.

*be it down to morale of the people playing, the population or just the balance swinging to Order classes - most likely all three.
 

Flimgoblin

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I think you give the majority of the players of this game too little credit, most will, when losing, fight back and get organised, you'd be surprised how many player thrive on being the underdogs (VIVA HIBERNIA!!). Also i think most players have much thicker skin and won't simply leave because they are, overall, losing at the moment.
To be fair, hibs had the classes to make up for the lack of numbers ;) imagine if hibs were as overpopulated as Albs :p
 

Flimgoblin

It's my birthday today!
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Lol - your still annoyed at being infracted?
now now, just because you have a mod stick doesn't mean you have to flash it around at people in public.

(I save that for thursday nights down at the docks)
 

Mabs

J Peasemould Gruntfuttock
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using daoc as a comparision is totally flawed

-in theory-

A v B is always going to be out of balance
A v B v C will often have the smallest aid the middle one against the biggest so it can be somewhat of a counterweight

which is why WAR suffers so much, 3 sides best.. but way harder to balance
 

rynnor

Rockhound
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nah
i just think people passing commentry on the state of "tier 4" on Norn should actually have -played- it before making statements about what they think is "wrong" with it
I think the problems we have been discussing are pretty generic - the only thing that distinguishes Norn is the population imbalance favouring Norn as a result of the bonuses for Order being on for too long.



but if you think that is the reason, are you really on that much of a power trip ? oh dear !
No I just think your being petty out of hurt pride after being ticked off tbh.
 

Case

Fledgling Freddie
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Dec 27, 2003
Messages
630
Order classes are far superior to destruction equivalents, that doesn`t help for a start. Bonus's to order when they were slightly down on numbers and yet no bonuses to destr now we`re massively outnumbered ... ?

This game always needed 3 sides but it's too late for that so no point bringing it up now. What the game needs is well balanced classes on both sides and then the population to settle down, without balance the pop won`t settle and one side will die.

think on it:
engineer v magus lol
ironbreaker v black orc lol
shadow warrior v squiggy lol
white lion v marauder lol
runepriest v zealot double lol
warrior priest v dok lol

And so on, however, 1 class that proves the rule in my experience choppa is much more powerful slayer.
 

Two Ton Ted

Fledgling Freddie
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You're not seriously implying that Shadow Warriors are better than Squig Herders there? Surely?
 

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