So warhammer turned out to be a wow-clone

[Zaagazug]

Not sure why I felt compelled to write a reply - a reply that is also my first post at Freddys.

WAR is different from DAoC. Yes.

What you miss however is that WAR is different from WoW.

Examples: The CC system is different from both games in terms of timers, CDs and diminishing returns. HPS vs DPS is more like DAoC than WoW. GCD is more like WoW than DAoC. RvR is more DAoC than WoW. PvE is more like WoW than DAoC.

The list continues, but what you end up with is a unique mix of features. Try the game out for a bit longer and see if you like it, but do not claim that WAR is a WoW clone since that just shows how uninformed you are.

 

[old.Osy]

I remember CowledScout -- you used to roll with stealth packs, over at the Alb MG side in emain...

On topic, I know almost nothing about WaR. But if it will have at least 50% of what Daoc had, then it should be at least given the benefit of doubt.

regardless, I for one am waiting for Origins, and will not touch any other MMO except EvE, which i'm currently subscribed to.

 

[pikeh]

I'm glad people have given this guy a reason to grace us with his presence for a week.

 

[Aada]

As I've not actually played it yet I am only going on information available.

Daoc had a great end game, unmatched thus far (in my opinion as I like pvp). But to get there was one of the biggest ball-aches in gaming history, especially in the early days (getting up at dawn to try and reserve a fins spot anyone?)

WoW and also Lotro made this far more enjoyable by having greater quest systems to aleviate the grind. WAR goes one further by implementing public quests. On top of that you can level up by doing rvr, which is great!

So there, WAR beats daoc when it comes to leveling up your character.

OMG fins?

I remember waking up at 5am for around 5 days straight!

Those were the days.

 

[Flimgoblin]

No body has still to answer:

Can it beat daoc in anything? (If you tell me one thing, i promise to play it for a week).

"Beating" is subjective, but creative thoughts and points of views are taken into account.

interface, by a mile

Take DAOC, add wow's UI (not the raiding or anything else, just the polish, voiceovers, added immersion), remove the obstacles to setting up groups (remember in daoc old days people grouped? and latterly noone did? open groups and public quests solve a lot of that).

Remove the long CC and instadeath from daoc - WAR's time to kill is really quite nice (you'll die pretty quick still if 5 people focus on you but not instantly by any means).

It's easy to look at it and say "that's just WoW" or "that's just DAoC" but there are quite a few differences deeper down.

 

[Downanael]

Why i prefer this to Daoc? simple,no buffbots.

Really hated paying 2x the sub costs.

 

[Jupitus]

Off topic: I could easily see this as a bit of a trolling attempt, but folks seem to be putting some decent answers to gether so it stays. Please keep it on topic and avoid slanging matches. thanks.

 

[Javai]

I played DaoC for 5 years, I got bored with WoW in about 6 months, so far I am loving WAR and absolutely hating the fact I can't play Beta for two weeks.....that tells me something.

It certainly isn't DaoC 2 and there are lots of things I miss about DaoC (not least the old school levelling but then I am a bit odd in that I enjoy a good grind ), in the rvr side of things there is not the kind of long duration CC we were used to in DaoC and that playing a Sorc I loved. Nonetheless, I found the rvr side of completely engaging, there is more variety of terrain for rvr - personally I loved being able to rvr in the bruning streets of Praag but also the more open areas which are more DaoC'eque.

Also in WAR rvr is not only an endgame but something you can participate in from the word go, you even get a quest to introduce how to fire siege equipment in the very early levels.

As for a comparison with WoW. I am not a WoW basher, I think it introduced alot of good things to mmo's but WAR feels more harsh as you are immediately in a warzone on login, although the quest mechanics are basically the same some how 'go and kill 20 invading High Elves' feels more immersing than ' Go and kill 20 boars'.

The two features neither game has are the ToK and Public Quests. I loved the public quest system - it was like running a ML battlegroup but with better tools (the game works out if everyone is contributing you don't have to worry if that cleric is healing or just a bot). While the ToK will offer little to hardcore rvr'ers personally I love that kind of thing and was delighted to pick up an unusual title for exploring somewhere off the beaten path.

WAR certainly is not perfect (but then it's not even released yet!) but I would suggest it takes some of the best of WoW and some of the best of DaoC and comes up with a pretty good mix.

 

[Frosty]

Surprise surprise.

I can't blame mythic, since WoW were a moneycow.

But tell me, dear beta-testers: Why should daoc-players change to War? And why should wow-players change to War, since it's pretty much the same?

For others (the non-betatesters): Why aren't you just playing wow now, instead of warhammer? What are you expecting to find?

This thread aint flaming - just pure observations.
Perhaps i should mention im a daoc-gamer - i hate wow.

In my eyes this is how i see it.

Daoc players will play warhammer as alot of ideas from daoc are in warhammer . ie (in the form of keep seiges etc)

The only reason i see wow players playing warhammer is the same reason i am. That being i played wow because there was nothing else to play. To me wow was good for playing with a few freinds untill you have some nice items and then its game complete. as i enjoy pvp

As for warhammer being a clone i feel warhammer has a complety diffrent gameplay to wow but yes they do look alike but then so do many other games.

But when wrath of the lich kiing comes out can everyone point a finger at wow crying world of clonecraft as they are taking pvp and seiges in a new land just like daoc did



But saying all that isnt a game about playing and enjoying. I for one do not like wow i find it very boring, But if i like warhammer then its all good for me.
If the next person hates warhammer then he doesnt play simple.


So really the question you should have asked is


Will you enjoy warhammer even though it looks the same as wow. If the answers ends up being no then look about for a game you will enjoy.

 

[Case]

You're making no friends around here Cowledscout I suggest you go away while your behind. You're making sweeping statements about a game you've never played based on a few screenshots and video's that don`t really give the full impression of what the game is like to play.

I really wish whiners like you with no information and no imagination would disapear from the forums you don`t create constructive discussions you just flame bait constantly.

 

[Faeldawn]

No body has still to answer:

Can it beat daoc in anything? (If you tell me one thing, i promise to play it for a week).

"Beating" is subjective, but creative thoughts and points of views are taken into account.

When it's released Warhammer will have players an populated servers, DAoC doesn't...i'd say that's a pretty important difference...unless you want to play in a different time zone or on a foreign language server.

The customer support is "supposed" to be proper 24/7 stuff, unlike GOA DAoC's Right-Now fun.

The PvE isn't DAoC crappy grind fest.

No ToA....no grind to max level, grind cash for a template, grind your artis, grind ML's, grind CL's, then finally go pvp...

You don't have to pve to level, you can pvp from the second you enter the game and never ever pve if you don't want too. By the way, this cannot be done in DAoC unless your happy to get slaughtered over and over by higher level players. Warhammer balances out levels in scenarios so even a level 1 has a chance against a level 10 (although the level 10 will have the upper hand having more skills to use and probably better kit).

But im not trying to convince you to play, personally I don't care if you play or not. I will, my friends will and lots of other gamers will, we will all have fun and nothing else really bothers me

 

[Aesgir]

I was a little disappointed with the UI, which yes, i saw as more of a rip off of WoW, but there's only so many ways they could do it anyway. I can customise it to change if i want to anyway. Graphic's style...well there are similarities, WoW is a little more cartoony for me, but yeah basically similar models, Blizzard are responsible for this however, not Mythic. Look at the rank 40 Ironbreaker and an Ironbreaker miniature from GW. Why would Mythic make something that didn't look like the physical product, while simultaneously trying to make something that looks appealing to a wide audience. WoW was a little cartoony for me.....and with WAR its less noticable.

RVR has been fun, you feel part of a team, and you definitely feel you need to beat the opposition (well as part of a guild anyway, not a zerg, which is little different than DAoC imo). It's not DAoC 2 by any stretch of the imagination, it plays too differently, but its fun and the feeling of realm pride is there. This is more what DAoC was about for me than any engine or graphics. The feel is there and thats what matters.

Noticed you guys are going Destro btw Vayasen, was nice fighting alongside you for a while in beta (and against LoE more recently), don't kill me too bad in retail

 

[CowledScout]

Why expect it to be DAoC II when Mythic clearly stated from the beginning that this is not going to be DAoC II?

And where do you get that we'll be PvP versus other servers? And I'm 99% certain that there will be plenty of "famous" guilds around in WAR, especially with the claiming of keeps similar to DAoC - but you actually get benefits this time round, the higher level your guild is, the more benefits you get.

What does WAR do better than DAoC? The entire PvE side of things is miles ahead.
The RvR doesn't have Mez - Which puts it firmly ahead of DAoC (Unless you're one of the "organised" twinked groups that expect to be able to kill the entire zerg)

Havning organised grps in daoc, were one of the great factors in daoc. That's why we played it - many of of us.
Without mez, there will be lack of skills needed - and more button smashing.

I read it, from the GM (the guy on the board), that the pvp-instances will be across servers.

 

[CowledScout]

You're making no friends around here Cowledscout I suggest you go away while your behind. You're making sweeping statements about a game you've never played based on a few screenshots and video's that don`t really give the full impression of what the game is like to play.

I really wish whiners like you with no information and no imagination would disapear from the forums you don`t create constructive discussions you just flame bait constantly.

I'm not the one trolling. And i'm happy with the friends i have, irl. Thanks.

Thanks for the constructive posts, people are giving.

 

[Legean]

Playing in CB with a group of 5 we were able to kite and kill greater numbers. In DAoC, a lot of abilities were on long timers, 15 mins for purge ect. With Morale a lot of these abilities are now on 60 second timers with the requirement your group is engaged in combat, based on the damage/healing done. This makes the game a lot more fun to play, theres no iWin buttons but abilities are generally available.

As for no mez means theres no skill. I think its the opposite. Instead of mez that lasts a long time theres short duration roots, silences, disarms, disables, snares, knockdowns, knockbacks. This means to play a group well you have to use these abilities more often and at the right time. Gets rid of group1 mezzes has the advantage all the time.

 

[Xandax]

Havning organised grps in daoc, were one of the great factors in daoc. That's why we played it - many of of us.
Without mez, there will be lack of skills needed - and more button smashing.

I read it, from the GM (the guy on the board), that the pvp-instances will be across servers.

Casting a 30+ second mezz and "killing" enemies which can't move is not skill.

 

[CowledScout]

Well, i agree that WAR has alot in common with WoW (sadly), however it still has slightly more potential for RvR. I have played both quite alot.


Really if there was active DAoC servers i would probably play DAoC over WAR, since i think it has less random factors and more variables required to learn in order to succeed in RvR (in short, WAR is a little too simple gameplay for me).


Sadly however, i would really have loved if Mythic put their expertise in trying to develop something new, instead of just importing alot of gameplay from wow, and a little from other games.

Like someone else said, its mainly PQ and ToK that is something "new"(in terms of gameplay), and for me ToK is as much content as the "guarantee-papers" you get when you buy a new mouse or keyboard lol (something you never read, and it just produces trash)


However, looking at how much DAoC evolved, i hope that WAR can evolve at a same rate, then the game could become really good after a year or so. (sadly tho, it seems that they have not quite learned their misstakes concering balanceing classes/pvp, or if they have then this have not been a major goal sofar)


// btw i think i remember exping my Armsman "Rvn" or my sorc "sorusi" with you at trees in lyonesse cowled

Hey sorusi I remember your sorc.

Since when did you join up with nolby pride? Did you do that after daoc, or changed to mid?

I remember CowledScout -- you used to roll with stealth packs, over at the Alb MG side in emain...

On topic, I know almost nothing about WaR. But if it will have at least 50% of what Daoc had, then it should be at least given the benefit of doubt.

regardless, I for one am waiting for Origins, and will not touch any other MMO except EvE, which i'm currently subscribed to.

Osy didn't you have a scout? I tried to stay away from stealth-zergs, but with assasins getting "see hidden", it was too hard to solo .

Awesome to see old people around.

 

[CowledScout]

Casting a 30+ second mezz and "killing" enemies which can't move is not skill.

Havning a good crowd controler in the group, makes sure you can get the advange of the fight.

Sorc had rangeclip-mez. Mid had insta stun/mez (but shorter range), etc. And later on with group-purge/demez, it didn't give THAT much advange.

 

[Legean]

Havning a good crowd controler in the group, makes sure you can get the advange of the fight.

Sorc had rangeclip-mez. Mid had insta stun/mez (but shorter range), etc. And later on with group-purge/demez, it didn't give THAT much advange.

What they have done is make it so the CC is spread across classes rather than have one person have the responsibility. Its much more group coordination and skill based rather than having one skilled person. It also means there are no required classes, excepting healers, in any group. Allowing for much greater group diversity.

 

[Litmus]

Call me a noob but what is this "ToK"?

 

[Legean]

Call me a noob but what is this "ToK"?

Its Tome of Knowledge. Basically it records everything you do, all the mobs you kill, how many hours you've played... everything. After certain milestones, such as killing 1000 of a certain mob you will gain XP and titles. Also you can get tactics, dyes, maybe armour (not sure on that one) just lots of cool stuff.

It also records the lore so you can read up about areas you have visited or certain events you have witnessed based on the original warhammer lore.

Finally it serves as the quest log, what the NPC said to you, what you have to do, the rewards for completing it ect.

 

[Ardwan]

Call me a noob but what is this "ToK"?

Tome of Knowledge, it basically tracks all quests, discoveries, kills etc, and has large amounts of story and lore in there about all the areas, monsters. You can also earn titles and abilites by completing parts of it. I'm sure there will be people who see it as pointless and just want to go WTFPWN some n00bs, but most will love it.

As for the CC/Mez discussion, there is a stupidly long thread about it elsewhere that I'm tired of reading, which basically boils down to the people that spend hours getting all the best items, abilities and believe they should be able to kill any sized group vs the players that believe that has nothing to do with skill and that WAR is going to be more about strategy and tactics.

A lot of the elite group players from DAoC are going to complain about lack of mez, lack of speed buff etc. But anyone who takes the time to investigate the different class skills will find that there is just different tools to use in WAR that requires a new way of playing.

 

[Faya]

First legendary fletcher on excal/alb. If you actually played, you would probably know me.

I really hated wow - that's why i still play daoc on US lancelot/hib/alb (idiot).

... I can see the kids already mingled to Warhammer. This is gonna be so much fun! Free realmpts!

I played Alb/excal beta and on until last year august and honestly, if you were the first fletcher or not, doesnt matter to me. i dont know you for that but for something else..wait and see
With the "kids" attitude you wont get far, maybe tune it down abit, we all have grown afterall..to some extend

Now THAT'S a good answer. I agree, that we hope it'll be DAoC II.

But lots of things aren't going to be the same: You are going to pvp vs. other servers, as i see it. Which sucks. You wont know and "fear" the famous guilds (nolby pride comes to mind), of your own server.

... along with lots of other stuff.

I honestly hope it is NOT daoc2.
Because what would be Daoc2? That is the question isnt it.
You are hoping, maybe because you have not enough information about WAR or simply nothing else to go to play at the moment, i dont hope it is Daoc2
I read it more then once thou, so i hope for you and others it will be what you hope it is.
There is no pvp other servers, MAYBE when we a year or more in the game, but so far it would be against the WAR mechanic. So dont fear that one, at the moment it is not planned, as far as people know.

Havning organised grps in daoc, were one of the great factors in daoc. That's why we played it - many of of us.
Without mez, there will be lack of skills needed - and more button smashing.

I read it, from the GM (the guy on the board), that the pvp-instances will be across servers.

Yes i remember you organising groups and i remember very well that i wa sturned down because i wasent the fotm that was needed. By you
I am happy to say, in that regard WAR will own daoc, there is nearly nothing as FOTM. With a skilled player all classes can be good to have in a group (i even think with some thinking that is possible in daoc, but that is my opnion )
I will not go into the mezz=skill discussion, i see it differently, thats it.
The PvP instances will be held vs players of the same TIR opposite faction, same server.
And yes, i am happy WAR took stuff from existing MMOS, as long as it what made other MMOS making money. That will only help the loyal WAR players to get more out of the game.

Call me a noob but what is this "ToK"?

ToK is the Tome of Knowledge which essentially is your life guide of whatever your char does, be it what he killed or other acomplishments (sp). If you need further info drop a post and i provide links.

Faya

 

[partyanimal]

:lol: j/k
have a lot here Category:Tome of Knowledge - TheWarWiki

 

[CowledScout]

I played Alb/excal beta and on until last year august and honestly, if you were the first fletcher or not, doesnt matter to me. i dont know you for that but for something else..wait and see
With the "kids" attitude you wont get far, maybe tune it down abit, we all have grown afterall..to some extend


I honestly hope it is NOT daoc2.
Because what would be Daoc2? That is the question isnt it.
You are hoping, maybe because you have not enough information about WAR or simply nothing else to go to play at the moment, i dont hope it is Daoc2
I read it more then once thou, so i hope for you and others it will be what you hope it is.
There is no pvp other servers, MAYBE when we a year or more in the game, but so far it would be against the WAR mechanic. So dont fear that one, at the moment it is not planned, as far as people know.


Yes i remember you organising groups and i remember very well that i wa sturned down because i wasent the fotm that was needed. By you
I am happy to say, in that regard WAR will own daoc, there is nearly nothing as FOTM. With a skilled player all classes can be good to have in a group (i even think with some thinking that is possible in daoc, but that is my opnion )
I will not go into the mezz=skill discussion, i see it differently, thats it.
The PvP instances will be held vs players of the same TIR opposite faction, same server.
And yes, i am happy WAR took stuff from existing MMOS, as long as it what made other MMOS making money. That will only help the loyal WAR players to get more out of the game.




ToK is the Tome of Knowledge which essentially is your life guide of whatever your char does, be it what he killed or other acomplishments (sp). If you need further info drop a post and i provide links.

Faya

You might be mistaken.
1. I'm not the one with kid-attitude here.
2. Scouts tend not to run fotm-daoc groups (if you remember it?), so i DOUBT i've turned you down.
3. Try not to spread weird rumors/troll in my threads. Thanks.

 

[Jupitus]

Enough of the bickering thanks folks.... I don't want to have to start kicking you to behave :wub:

 

[Downanael]

I agree that mezzing did require skill since you were driving and had to find a spot where you can mezz them so they can't mezz you

There was big gap between good sorcs/healers/bards and bad ones

 

[thergador]

Surprise surprise.

I can't blame mythic, since WoW were a moneycow.

But tell me, dear beta-testers: Why should daoc-players change to War? And why should wow-players change to War, since it's pretty much the same?

For others (the non-betatesters): Why aren't you just playing wow now, instead of warhammer? What are you expecting to find?

This thread aint flaming - just pure observations.
Perhaps i should mention im a daoc-gamer - i hate wow.

clearly just bait
all ill say is i disagree
i have got many daoc level 50s and a few tier 4 lvl70 toons in wow, wow to me was just about the pve raid grind and with wotlk come that just going to changing to ten more levels on pve leveling grind

 

[Ardwan]

Enough of the bickering thanks folks.... I don't want to have to start kicking you to behave :wub:

Pfft, let the kids play, old man

 

[pinkey]

From looking at war its taken the best bits from other mmorpgs and made what ppl want. From what i've seen so far its nothing like just wow.