So old emain is coming back to official servers!!

[Golena]

NF before the TOA nerf patch was just about bearable.. at least people leveled arti's in the frontier, and while I didn't really go about ganking expers, you could find some fun fights against the other people who were.

If nothing else it spread people out a bit from the zerg.

Since they removed that, everyone is now sitting in a 2ft space nuking each other for rp's... I've run about the frontiers for 30 mins not finding anyone at all, then walked to the fotm bridge to find 70 hibs within PBAOE range of each other fighting 70 albs stood at a tower. Not exactly much "fun"

 

[Notirt]

Old emain was nothing but overcrowded and zergy

 

[RejuvFluff]

prolly fun for those who got lvl 49 buffbots and toons, but it's gonna completely ruin real rvr -_- stupid fookin mythic ;D

 

[Asha]

Stupid idea.

 

[Bracken]

Rose tinted spectacles and all that...

 

[Novamir]

hooray! i knew i was keeping my druid at 48 for a reason!

 

[Azathrim]

Why on earth are people whining to get OF back?

So the zerg moves from the three bridges to the Milegates instead? Yada... big difference, except you now can effectively lock a realm out of the area by holding the Milegates (as actually did happen in OF).

I think those whining to get OF back should think a little harder instead of forgetting the bad things about OF.

 

[Gahn]

Another omigosh it's Doohm time thread? -.-

 

[adoNix]

Yay! looking forwards to this
Good think i was too lazy to lvl my savage from 47-50 yet ^^
Gonna keep it on 49 then

 

[atos]

Mythic should lose their pride and admit NF was among the worst things added to the game apart from ToA.

 

[Asha]

I wasn't here when NF came out. I just don't get what is so terrible about NF... It seems like an improvement to me. If you don't like bridge campers, don't go there?

I guess you all forgot the days of mmg stand offs lasting all day with Zoy shouting CHARGE and running through alone? (ok that part was funny) Where Mids would camp amg til Hibs came behind them sandwiching them and Albs could finally break through.

The only thing I dont' get is why more ppl don't use Agramon more often ... Also I don't get what the bridge campers are doing as they seem to stand around in groups of 20 waiting for 2-3 enemies.

 

[Septina]

Old emain was nothing but overcrowded and zergy

Compared to now when everyone is spread out over the vastness of NF and noone zergs or camps bridges (milegates)

 

[Martok]

The only thing I dont' get is why more ppl don't use Agramon more often ... Also I don't get what the bridge campers are doing as they seem to stand around in groups of 20 waiting for 2-3 enemies.

Agramon = lagg city its worse then if you had 300 mids hibs and albs all aoe nuking + pbaoeing on your screen tbh! in no other game have i had anywere laggyer and i play most mmo's/online games with a good spec pc but i still get the lag!

 

[Elitestoner]

If you don't like bridge campers, don't go there?

there isnt anything else to kill anywhere else, thats the whole fucking problem

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

Rose tinted spectacles and all that...

Funny how all the haters says OF sucked etc, we don't want it back blah blah, the mayority of the cummunity wants NF over OF, and whatmore crap u claim.

Well if all this is true what do u worry about then? If it is as shite as you/others claim then what harm could it do to have a OF BG, not like NF would be deserted, right?...

I think it is a good step to give us OF back, even if it is only as a BG...maybe in time we will have a server with only OF on it, the way DAoC should be played.

NF largest misstake ever, no logic behind it at all and all-in-all badly designed.

 

[SethNaket]

what would say an enchanter do? light spec or only nuke being the lvl41 baseline one = completly useless? not looked but sure there would be other classes with this prob?

Sounds to me like how casters should have been all along, specnukers pretty powerful and basenukers not. Removing all lvl 50 base DDs would solve a lot of the problems in DAoC.

 

[Asha]

I dont think anyone said OF was total crap, just I don't see the huge difference between camping a bridge and camping a pk/mg. At least with bridges you can get out w/o sos'ing.

The problem with more and more bg's or instanced rvr is that it spreads people too thinly eventually. There is already loads of places/terrians to fight on in NF, people just dont' use them.

 

[Shafu]

There is already loads of places/terrians to fight on in NF, people just dont' use them.

That's not the players fault. It is because of bad design. One of the most essential aspects of frontier design is to make sure that enemies cross paths. This is where NF fails horribly. There is plenty of cool terrain, but players do not "naturally" meet enemies in these areas. Instant porting between keeps and the ability to take a boat almost anywhere have reduced travelling to an absolute minimum. Players roam near dock keeps, because they know that the further away from dock keeps they run, the less chance they have of meeting an enemy.

Cathal is a good basic example of "cross pathing". Players are trying to reach a destination, and they are bound to meet enemies on the way, because by design the three realms cross paths in the center area. This creates a dynamic scenario where each realm is trying to push back the other realms.

OF was based on cross pathing. Not just Emain, Odin's and Hadrian's, but also the rest of the frontiers. With the home realm in one end, and the two invading realms in the other end, collision was guaranteed. There was a reason to travel all the way to the opposite end of a frontier. Equally important, players from the same realm had a shared interest in protecting their travel routes. This gave a sense of realm pride.

I could write a book about this, but it's time for bed now

 

[Notirt]

OF emain was to small
NF is to big.

I would much rather have a shrimped version of NF , like remove agromon and North sea and Move Hib/Mid/Alb closer to each other

 

[Asha]

That's true. Maybe if they got rid of boats (and water fights which I hate) all together, it would help? Then people would have to run through Agramon, but they wouldn't be bunched like at docks/boat drop offs?

 

[Icebreaker]

Remove agramon, the ocean, one land zone in each realm and move the rest of the zones close together!

 

[Golena]

That's not the players fault. It is because of bad design. One of the most essential aspects of frontier design is to make sure that enemies cross paths. This is where NF fails horribly. There is plenty of cool terrain, but players do not "naturally" meet enemies in these areas. Instant porting between keeps and the ability to take a boat almost anywhere have reduced travelling to an absolute minimum. Players roam near dock keeps, because they know that the further away from dock keeps they run, the less chance they have of meeting an enemy.

This is exactly the reason NF sucks..

NF can be "solved" with one very simple change, remove the boats!
The problem is the enemy can pretty much insta port to your doorstep, so there's very little reason to leave it.

Take old frontiers, now give mids the ability to port to just outside the alb teleport keep. Why would 80% of the albs bother to leave their own portal keep when there's fresh supplies of mids porting in to farm every few minutes.

If people have to run through agramon, then people will meet in the middle, but not all at once, since (here's the important bit) it takes time to get to where the fights are happening. The issue at the moment is the fight areas can be reached 30 seconds after dying, which means the entire population is stood in the same spot all the time..

One of the biggest complaints from people is there's no incentive to leave your own doorstep. Old emain had this.. if you stayed at the portal keep, you wouldn't find the enemy, the people who left would kill them en-route. You HAD to move to the enemy instead of letting it come to you. This is what the design of NF lacks, the inscentive to get off your arse and travel somewhere.. remove the boats and you remove the rp food arriving, so people have to move to find fights... once you've got people moving about, you can find good fights.. remove what's causing the lag in aggramon, make people move through it and NF could work out great.

I'd even go so far as to removing the port to the furthest keep (beno for example).... as that would help to cut down a bit on groups just farming the bridges leading into aggramon.

Look at irvr the last week... 50 hibs and 50 albs standing at either side of a bridge.. you can't farm people inc, since they have to run 2ft to get there, and they get back 30 secs after you kill them.. so the standoff simply lasts for 4 days, boring for almost everyone concerned.

 

[Lythande]

Vid of new BG, I mean new Emain, I mean.. well you get it http://www.ch00chx.com/daoc/vids/oldemain_newbg.wmv

 

[Vonwar]

To all the old frontier lovers, as i can see there are extremely many of here on this thread.

Why is NF to blame of this and that. NF has been designed to a full server, of 2500 - 3000 ppl, and on our cluster we dont have so many players.

What is needed more is some multilingual skins for the game, so that they can put more servers together, not by clustering them but to move chars to other servers, so that we get rid of ppl cross realming and we get rid of ppl fighting their own guildmates cause the guildmate has a char on the oposite realm.

Give multilingual skin, and move ppl around so that they cannot cross realm like they do now.

My memory of OF was 95% boring, keeps were useless not used for anything, except having DF. Hours of wasted waiting time to get a group at MPK, No BG to join so you had no idea where the fighting was. Running for 20 - 30 minutes finding yourself dead or in a fight for 15 sec. winning or getting wasted, if you died another 10 minutes of waiting for portal priests in Svasud faste, and same boring run over again.

Only fun thing in old frontier was relic raids and they are still fun, just not enough players on the servers anymore.

NF is much more efficient, you port you fight you win or die, then you re-port again. Not much time wasted, especially when we have Insta RvR or Keep take/defence. rest of rvr is more or less uninteresting to me.

If any of you played Gorre for the month we could play there, it was the most fun rvr i have seen. lots of ppl, lots of action everywhere in NF.

Best regards

Vonwar

 

[Sneakers|Matriarch]

My memory of OF was 95% boring, keeps were useless not used for anything, except having DF. Hours of wasted waiting time to get a group at MPK, No BG to join so you had no idea where the fighting was. Running for 20 - 30 minutes finding yourself dead or in a fight for 15 sec. winning or getting wasted, if you died another 10 minutes of waiting for portal priests in Svasud faste, and same boring run over again.

Keeps still are useless, if u didn't like keeps in OF you don't like them ni NF either.

If you stood at MPK for hours waiting for a group you where doing something wrong, mids had the easiest in getting solid groups together.

Having no BG you say? Well if you had played for a while you would be invited to a guild and guilds were in alliances, hence you would know where the fighting were. Tbh all your arguments for OF beeing worthless etc seems only to be caused by your own n00behness and inability to make things happends.

 

[Bracken]

Funny how all the haters says OF sucked etc

OF didn't suck, just like NF doesn't suck. Both had/have good and bad points - most of which are down to how people use them. For example, people whine about NF zergs/bridge camping (as if you have to go to bridges...) but happily forget the amg camping and stand offs. It's this idea that the world would be a happy shiny place if they got rid of NF and brought back OF which is bollox. If people used NF to its potential, with perhaps a few tweaks in it's layout (specifically to do with Agramon/ sea space to make meeting more "predictable"), then there would be nothing to complain about.

 

[Mundokar]

Keeps still are useless, if u didn't like keeps in OF you don't like them ni NF either.

If you stood at MPK for hours waiting for a group you where doing something wrong, mids had the easiest in getting solid groups together.

Having no BG you say? Well if you had played for a while you would be invited to a guild and guilds were in alliances, hence you would know where the fighting were. Tbh all your arguments for OF beeing worthless etc seems only to be caused by your own n00behness and inability to make things happends.

There's no need to insult people.

Can we please move on from this OF/NF discussion it's getting a long beard now. OF and NF have their strenghths and weakneses. To survive a game needs to change and develop.

 

[Vonwar]

Keeps still are useless, if u didn't like keeps in OF you don't like them ni NF either.

If you stood at MPK for hours waiting for a group you where doing something wrong, mids had the easiest in getting solid groups together.

Having no BG you say? Well if you had played for a while you would be invited to a guild and guilds were in alliances, hence you would know where the fighting were. Tbh all your arguments for OF beeing worthless etc seems only to be caused by your own n00behness and inability to make things happends.

First of all, i have been in mid since beta, second on pryd since release. Third i liked keep takes, keep defence and relic raids in old frontier.

What i did not like was the 8 vs. 8 terminology that: "you must have the right char with the right gear and the right spec" apart from that know somebody to get a group.

I think we have made it much better in inviting ppl in the NF than i saw in the old one. If you dont have a group there is always the bridge option, and if you have luck there will be I-RvR somewhere.

I am, and you might have guessed it, one of the ppl that find the RvR in DaoC was meant to be large scale warfare with big battles and so on, i have no fun in running 4 hrs 3 times a week with a set group. If ppl want to do so, fine with me. Please keep in mind that i try not to critisise OF or NF i merely tell here what my own opinion is and what i have had the best expirience playing.

Yes and i might be a noob that cannot find out anything regarding RvR, and what so ever, if you think that fine with me, i dont care. I could have asked you the same question in another way:
How many lvl 50, on how many accounts, and how many of theese fully toa templated and how many ML10 and CL5, and how many LGM crafters do you have, and how much money??? there can be very different goals in this game you know.

but i did not.... i just came up with my own view of my fun or not in OF.

Best regards


Vonwar
Guildmaster of Danish Huscarls.

P.S. we might have some in guild that actually liked it in the OF

 

[raid]

I'm not really excited about this. Despite the obvious fun fights factor, developing my character thru RvR is still an important part of the game... having a cap on RR takes pretty much half of it away.

 

[Golena]

Why is NF to blame of this and that. NF has been designed to a full server, of 2500 - 3000 ppl, and on our cluster we dont have so many players.

What is needed more is some multilingual skins for the game, so that they can put more servers together, not by clustering them but to move chars to other servers

They tried this to some extent and called it glastonbury. What it turned out to be was a complete disaster.

The problems with new frontiers still exist, and i'm not going to be one of the people that thought old frontiers was perfect but it was better than it is now.

Having twice the number of people would just make the problem twice as bad! The issue is still simply that there's no reason to travel.. If you put twice the number of people there, then sorry, people wouldn't spread out more, they would just cram themselves into the same 2ft of space that's used currently.

The issue is that you could remove 90% of NF and most people wouldn't notice for over a month. I'd almost put money on the fact that there's area's in the frontier you've never actually seen, and that's simply because there's zero reason to go there. Large scale fights can be interesting, but really only if there's a goal to it like in the old scale relic raids.

Even in old frontiers trying to clear your own milegate from the zerg so you could pass through gave you a purpose to what you were doing.. It gave the realm something to work towards together. Taking keeps let you have a shot at the relics if the enemy didn't come to defend etc.

The problem with NF is simply that there's no reason to worry about this stuff. The zerg just sits on a bridge, they have no purpose (clearing a milegate) and they can insta-port back there, so you can't budge them. To me a large scale fight, doesn't involve 50 people standing at opposite sides of a bridge insta-killing anyone who steps closer than bolt range to the enemy for 5 hours at a time, which is what it's like in insta rvr.
Even taking keeps is fairly pointless, as can be proved by the fact you'll very rarely get any kind of defence force turning up to such things.. mostly just bored casters who can't find a group and want to try and get a few rp's nuking from a wall. In old frontiers people would organise keep farms, go take a keep then defend it for the night.. if you tried that in NF, you'd take it in 30 mins then sit about for 5 hours while no-one showed up.

There's enough people on the cluster at the moment.. you'll find them all stood on each others heads however, so it's probably quite possible to think there's only 1 of them there.. Adding more people isn't the answer.. getting people to move more than 2ft from each other, and giving them a reason for doing it is what needs to be addressed.