So i got terminated on Camlann...

[Everz]

Yes because Camlann wasn't dead before this nope.

Not bad numbers for a pvp server, ofc you would know much more true? after all you are the all knowing pirkel the prick.

 

[Tesla Monkor]

If you want to blame someone, blame the people who caused the damage in the first place.

 

[Esselinithia]

It´s a matter of whom you trust. Personally, I don´t think GoA would ban people if there´s the slightest chance that they´re not guilty of something.

I seen pretty strange things, and in case of the topic starter, I might risk saying, he might be the very rare case.

Lets see: If you count only 1 player logged in from an IP range of an ISP in the last x days, and from that IP range someone used an account to cheat, and you managed to sell an item to someone at inflated price to someone who had money from a cheat, so you made a nice extra profit on the deal. When investigating the scenario what would you say?

When you see this 90 plat sale is one of the highest extra profits you see related to that given cheat account, what do you say? If you also know that many people used inflated prices to sell items, so your detection criteria was to see items sales over 75p to detect problematic sales, what would you say?

I think most of us would agree the person in question was a cheater. If you also know that he stopped using the main char for the time the cheat character was used, how much stronger your reasoning would be?

Now we can add three minor details to the story:
The 90 plat price was put on before the cheat got discovered (you name the time, GOA checks it, confirms) so it cannot be made this high to transfer this amount of money. Unlike most other cases, you haven't sold a low value item for high profit (didn't maximize your profits).

Your normal activity determined by a few factors and you can prove a reason for inactivity with the main character at the time.

And finally: A cheater who wants to use a different IP range for cheat char can use a nearby public computer (which can be the same you used before) and you can prove the public nature of the computer.

3 realy strong evidence and a realy strong reasoning can fall appart based on relatively small details. This is why the ban is final after the appeal, and this is why you have that process. If Requiel said, there was a few cases where they removed the ban, I am much happier about it.

And about what Requiel mentioned about prydwen incindent: I think the backup tool was ok (used for rollbacks before) but they were never prepared for a database corruption that remains undetected (and good backups overwritten later by a backup of corrupted database one by one) and forces a realy long rollback

 

[Thorwyn]

I seen pretty strange things, and in case of the topic starter, I might risk saying, he might be the very rare case.

I dont give a flying f*ck about your drivel and your opinion. Neither you nor me know what really has happened and all your arguments are based on the stuff that people wrote here, nothing more.
You´re grabbing arguments out of the blue without any backup, you´ve been doing this for years and haven´t learned a single thing.

 

[Ctuchik]

This Bug was known on all DAOC Servers a long time ago about 3 weeks ago, this saturday or friday the servers crashed and the bug was then unfixed so if GOA could code for shit none of this would of happened.

to bad its never GOA that actually CODE anything huh? they translate languages, thats all.

how fucking hard can it be to remember that? Mythic code, GOA translate.... it isnt THAT technical.....

 

[Ati]

Okay, rewrote this as it wasn't written well.

Under the data protection act I, your customer, are allowed to see any data held about me, is this just personal data or does it entail my characters information such as logs?
Was wondering if the data you hold is concering me? My character is in a way a form of me submitting data to you, so i should know what i have submitted and i shouldnt see a problem in me re-viewing it.

I think that one would be perfectally within their rights to ask to see this information (i think the maximum fee that is charged is 10 pounds sterling).

This law applys in france afaik

Requiel would be much apreciated if you would reply to this.

 

[Corran]

Okay, rewrote this as it wasn't written well.

Under the data protection act I, your customer, are allowed to see any data held about me, is this just personal data or does it entail my characters information such as logs?
Was wondering if the data you hold is concering me? My character is in a way a form of me submitting data to you, so i should know what i have submitted and i shouldnt see a problem in me re-viewing it.

I think that one would be perfectally within their rights to ask to see this information (i think the maximum fee that is charged is 10 pounds sterling).

This law applys in france afaik

Requiel would be much apreciated if you would reply to this.

Data protection act covers only your personal information. This be name, address etc etc. Also will cover any banking information etc. Yes you can request data via it, but they dont necessary have to give you everything either.

I.e. For my work i make requests using DPA 29.3 if my SSAA legislation powers dont cover it, but they can pick the relevant data to provide if they wish. Yes you can then take this to the commisioner (this is your data not others like with my work) which means they may force them to provide more information, but in this case they will not. The actually character information is not that about you thus not covered as far as they would read into it.

Only route you could attempt, but once more will come back in a dead end would be Freedom of Information. And once more they will just be picky with that.

In short they do not have to show their hand to you, just your real life personal details if you make a request.

 

[Esselinithia]

Thorwyn: Just a few things. WHen I said something will happen, everyone said, it is a guess from thin air. When it happend, they whined, but never asked, how did I seen it from before? Easy: You look at many different things and you see how they are related and can use these patterns. Which is more than out of the blue.

Requiel said there were cases, when the 100% sure decision to ban someone was reversed, since unforeseen details came to attention.

In the post you answer, I used the word might several times, and used some information that shows, how easy is to form a 100% sure oppinion, then change it dramatically by minor details.

That argument doesn't say: It happened exactly this way. But it says: some of the presented information can be used to prove he is guilty, and some details can show he is innocent.

If shows, that false positives doesn't make the initial argument from Requiel less solid. So if 1 ban gets reversed or 2, that doesn't make the rest of bans weaker.

 

[Esselinithia]

3 small things to add:

1st: Good job on compensation decision

2nd: Sadly the cheater in this case didn't just wanted plats, by buying up everything and screwing up the whole community their plan was to destroy. So it is reasonable to think, they wanted to get innocents banned, many bans, etc. They haven't stayed in limits that would give them a chance to stay hidden and enjoy the benefit. It can be more like sabotage and less like cheating for profit. If they want to make a big trouble, with community falling appart, and if they want that, they might try to frame multiple innocent people, to kill of guilds, etc.

3rd: Too many people are involved from a too small community, based on sudden retirement and "OMG I am banned but I didn't cheat" arguments. You think a server as small as camlann has place for this many cheaters?

Reason 2 and 3 makes the risk of false positives higher But I think Requiel and his team will investigate the cases where there is a beliveable explanation, and we will hear about that.

 

[judas]

i heard a rumor about employies from Blizzard done this to ruin Daoc and make ppl start playing WoW anyone can confirm this?

 

[Pirkel]

Esselinithia strikes again. The assumptions and drivel pile up at staggering speeds.

 

[Pirkel]

Okay, rewrote this as it wasn't written well.

Under the data protection act I, your customer, are allowed to see any data held about me, is this just personal data or does it entail my characters information such as logs?
Was wondering if the data you hold is concering me? My character is in a way a form of me submitting data to you, so i should know what i have submitted and i shouldnt see a problem in me re-viewing it.

I think that one would be perfectally within their rights to ask to see this information (i think the maximum fee that is charged is 10 pounds sterling).

This law applys in france afaik

That entire argument rests on the assumption that the characters you play are yours.

They are not.

From the EULA:

* You acknowledge expressly that all characters created and all objects acquired and developed during the game are an integral part of the Software and the Game and its Expansions’ pack and strictly remain the property of The Publisher.

 

[Thadius]

That entire argument rests on the assumption that the characters you play are yours.

They are not.

From the EULA:

Couldnt have said it better. GOA can tell you to go swivel(not like they would) if you ask for "your" account details, ie server logs and such. All they can provide you with is what YOU provide them with, ie stuff when you sign up for account.

Although, looking at server logs at "certain" players who you have a sneaky suspicion on might be fun

Then you can probably cry 9/10 when you realise they are not shady bastards, just had really good luck when they found you xping in the middle of nowhere

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Not bad numbers for a pvp server, ofc you would know much more true? after all you are the all knowing pirkel the prick.

The server had its faith sealed a long time ago even with a high population where most of the guilds used to gray con gank xp'ers. I stopped with two PBAoE groups, one at level 4x, one at 2x due to being xp ganked at every xp session.

So here you go, 2 x 8 - 1 players gone from the server for good and this happened to a lot of others too.

The situation might be different now, with instanced xp places, but it's too late.

 

[Pirkel]

after all you are the all knowing pirkel the prick.

Wow, you totally blew me out of the water there with your compelling argument!

:worthy:

 

[Esselinithia]

Just like you in #71

 

[Esselinithia]

The situation might be different now, with instanced xp places, but it's too late.

If I remember well, on PVP servers you don't have multiple copies of the same instance, so anyone can follow you to the instance, and kill your group there.

 

[Pirkel]

Just like you in #71

Does that mean you are denying what I said?

I honestly do not think even you believe 80% of what you write when you write it.

 

[Ati]

That entire argument rests on the assumption that the characters you play are yours.

They are not.

From the EULA:

The internet is not mine, but i use it to submit data for online banking.

The character is just a means of me sending information to GOA, it dosnt have to be mine to be sending my information.

 

[RS|Phil]

I dont give a flying f*ck about your drivel and your opinion. Neither you nor me know what really has happened and all your arguments are based on the stuff that people wrote here, nothing more.
You´re grabbing arguments out of the blue without any backup, you´ve been doing this for years and haven´t learned a single thing.

It was a long post, but I think what he was saying is that this player doesn't seem to have been given the benefit of the doubt like Requiel is claiming. I'd have to agree in some ways - thought I don't write off their detective work completely, I can see it being flawed quite easily by people setting other people up.

Someone said earlier their mate got banned for been given 4 plat, and I can well believe that was a setup like many of the banned people may have been set up.

Why can I beleive that? Well, it's Camlann. I believe that a lot of people there are amongst the nastiest people I've ever met whilst playing DaoC. I kid you not, my friend and I were called everything under the sun for killing people. I was told I was an English pigfuck dog face **** and my mum should be chain killed irl (tho their spelling wasn't that good) so I can easily believe people would be such twats as to set up other people for a ban.

It'd be pretty simple setting someone up too. Make a fake account, create loads of plats, and give it to them. Or even just randomly get people banned, like perhaps our erstwhile thread starter here, by creating a lot of exploited plats, then buying items on the market that are over priced, and then delete the character/account.

That action alone makes it look like he's trying to exploit gold when he's obviously not, and you could simply repeat this by spawning new dummy accounts for each person's CM you buy an item(s) from. (A new account for each CM as to make it look a genuine explotation rather than just randomly buying everything from many people's CMs.)

There's no reason for it, except to be a wanker, but sadly Camlann has (had) those in plentiful supply.

 

[Pirkel]

The internet is not mine, but i use it to submit data for online banking.

The character is just a means of me sending information to GOA, it dosnt have to be mine to be sending my information.

If that stands up in court you just fucked over every single game hosting company in the world.

Why aim low, take them all down! Good luck!

 

[Ati]

If that stands up in court you just fucked over every single game hosting company in the world.

Why aim low, take them all down! Good luck!

ty, owned you goa.

where my character moves is about ME as I did it

 

[Corran]

All they can provide you with is what YOU provide them with, ie stuff when you sign up for account

Not strictly true but in general that would be correct. In my work if a completed investigation gets a DPA request in from the person then we have to give them some the information we have collected in the information. Be it credit checks, bank statements etc. If it is in their name it possible that we have to give it to them.

But as GoA dont actively collect personal data then there nothing beyond what you give them that they have to disclose

ty, owned you goa.

where my character moves is about ME as I did it

Where your character moved isnt personal data which is covered by the data protection act. You got to remember it doesnt cover everything in existance.

 

[NeLSoN]

they translate languages, thats all.

http://babelfish.altavista.com/
best traductor ever

 

[Thorwyn]

Thorwyn: Just a few things. WHen I said something will happen, everyone said, it is a guess from thin air. When it happend, they whined, but never asked, how did I seen it from before? Easy: You look at many different things and you see how they are related and can use these patterns. Which is more than out of the blue.

I`m sorry matey, EVERYTHING you posted in relation to DAoC and GoA so far has been a complete pile of utter bullshit. In all those years, you didn´t manage to write one single post which contained any substance whatsoever except your very own cloud-cockoo-land ideas. You have been proven wrong so many times in the past and still, you´re 100% convinced that you´re the mastermind who has got everything under control. Newsflash: you´re wrong.

You said you have found a new game to play. Do us all a favour and please.. PLEASE go and play this game and stop bothering us with your redundant, useless, annoying and completely retarded posts. You´re no longer playing this game, so please kindly fook off, ok?

edit: it takes a FOOKING lot to get ME to post a reply like this, trust me.

 

[Thorwyn]

It was a long post, but I think what he was saying is that this player doesn't seem to have been given the benefit of the doubt like Requiel is claiming. I'd have to agree in some ways - thought I don't write off their detective work completely, I can see it being flawed quite easily by people setting other people up.

Yup, Phil. I know what you mean.
That´s why I said it´s a delicate thing. But again, nobody here knows what has happened. All our informations are based on some postings here. The benefit of the doubt is something that we can´t discuss. Only people with full access to all relevant data can give this benefit. We don´t have it.

 

[Esselinithia]

Thorwyn: You decide if you trust GOA or ripe, etc. about what is in france and what isn't when you choose network infrastructure. I decided to choose the secound. If there is a conflict between verifiable data, then that makes credibility of goa questionable. It wasn't a single case, where independent proof was on one side, morons who flame and say, GOA is official in everything was on the other side. You are entitled to have your oppinion (even about me) and I am entitled to have an oppinion about you, but this forum, to my best knowledge isn't about personal attacks.

Interestingly, Requiel instead of a personal attack like you, replied intelligently and said, they admited fault in a few cases, when it is about bans. What he posts here is normally his oppinion, and he should keep the good image of company in mind, so I don't want to discuss it anymore.

While I admit, that I see many positive changes in how Requiel and GOA handles problems, and I think his post is solid, and I have every reason to believe, Requiel is trying his best to save the game, and be fair in this incident, I have to say, nothing, not even courts, and professional detectice teams, etc. are perfect when investigating.

 

[Esselinithia]

Yup, Phil. I know what you mean.
That´s why I said it´s a delicate thing. But again, nobody here knows what has happened. All our informations are based on some postings here. The benefit of the doubt is something that we can´t discuss. Only people with full access to all relevant data can give this benefit. We don´t have it.

Thorwyn: You are right in this post, but this is why I said: Since Requiel posted that they review decisions when there is an appeal, and when they made a wrong decision they lift the ban, it must be common understanding that if that happens in this case, that still doesn't mean Requiel and co did anything wrong with the ban.

Why? Because this is why they, and every MMORPG company has an appeal process. Even the best system isn't 100% sure, and if the customer can raise a good explaination to the proof that suggests he mightdetected by the current triggers (or good part of them) without cheating, then they can lift the ban.

But if they lift the ban, that doesn't mean they made any mistake with the investigation in first place. It just mean, something exceptional happened. I think we both agree that this incident was exceptional.

 

[Thorwyn]

Thorwyn: You decide if you trust GOA or ripe, etc. about what is in france and what isn't when you choose network infrastructure. I decided to choose the secound.

Look, I`ve flamed GoA a lot in the past. No, I don´t "trust" GoA and if you care to read my posts, you might even spot that.
But if there´s one thing I really can´t stand, then it´s people who don´t have a clue what the heck they´re talking about and who still claim to be a big fish in the pond, explaining everything they (think) they know.
I`m sure you´re a great guy IRL (I really mean this), but you´re performance here has so far been the equivalent of a completely clueless wanker. Call it personal attack all you like, I don´t care. I repeat: you´re no longer part of this community, so please f*ck off and play the games you like.

..good luck!

 

[Esselinithia]

Thorwyn: Interesting, I think people want to see majority of players who left back on Prydwen. And I still have friends in the game (on dyvet), and I still provide hosting, etc. for guilds in the game. Which makes some of your last post coming out of thin air.

About old incidents, I said, I won't discuss them. Good luck with checking ripe, internet archives, etc. if you want to look up on them. Ohh, and you can guess how one can learn about the communication between daoc server and client, the various data structures used. I won't mention the source for good reasons.