SM's intercepting pet overpowered?

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Puppetmistress

Guest
Originally posted by infozwerg
it is not. not even close. ask a earth theurgist about his basenuke if you want a comparision.

LOL. So you're telling me a spec-line DD179 is better then a baseline DD179?

If a spec-line DD is DD179 delve it has a special component (most often snare). Example matter-sorc, ice-wiz, ice-theurg etc etc.

If a spec-line DD is DD209 (or DD219) it has no special component, just pure dmg. Example body-sorc, air-theurg, fire-wiz

The damage a baseline-nuke DD179 does is EXACTLY the same as a specline DD179 IF you get close to 50 skill in the line where the baseline-spell is in (eg 45 ice = very low variance on the baseline ice-nuke).

Earth-theurgist with 45 earth, 29 ice can get close to 0 variance at high RR if he puts +11 ice on equipment. Try it if you dont believe me.

Also my ice baseline-nuke does more damage then my ice-spec nuke because I only have the level 41 one. The level 50 and baseline do same damage except the spec-line one snares.

Delve them in game if you dont believe me
 
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Puppetmistress

Guest
Originally posted by Ithurts
And I agree Puppetmistress seems like a tard from what ive read on these boards and u just dont seem to know what ur talking about.

Yeah, tell me I dont know shit about ice-spec. You got a Savage in your sig, I got an ice-theurgist.

But no, I dont know shit about it :/


SMs got a chance to live vs an assasin and they should get nerfed...right...morons

Do SM-pets intercept only assassins? No. So stop talking about assassins and try to see the BIG PICTURE FOR A SECOND.

Midgard is closer to caster balance than every other realm.
They got 2 classes who can survive a 1on1 fight against an assasin. Bonedancers and Spiritmasters, very close to balance considering caster defence (ok bonedancer should get a little nerf).
Dont try to remove this feature but try to get something for UR casters...

I dont want a 4 sec insta lifetap range 1500 on every caster kthnxbye.

I mean its not like they can cast while someone gets intercepted, they just live longer...

Once again you've prooven yourselves unknowing. Ofcourse they can cast when the pet intercepts, they just have to wait out the melee-swing delay during the interrupt from the first strike.

If the pet intercepts 2 strikes in succession the SM can cast if he knows how to time it. Same way as you can cast if your guard guards you succesful against a melee-strike.
 
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Ithurts

Guest
U might now about ice-spec but that seems to be it...

In group rvr they go down pretty fast even with that pet and they cant cast they just live longer.

I said Bonedancers needed a nerf ok?

Im talking about THIS fight.
U think that sm couldve casted when Sarg hits at 1.5 spd???
 
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Arnor

Guest
true,


if you dont care, why do you bring it up all the time?



pretty sure


if they can be remezzed, what was that sorc whine thread about? not being able to mezz hibs w/o getting an army of pets on you.


you are specced in ice, we have 23 or so, MAX in darkness, hence baseline will vary a bit, and it costs alot of pow.


dont wizzies have aoe-cold debuff+dmg? and aoe root. and the "utilities" we got in darkness, seriously?...
 
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infozwerg

Guest
LOL. So you're telling me a spec-line DD179 is better then a baseline DD179?

...

Also my ice baseline-nuke does more damage then my ice-spec nuke because I only have the level 41 one. The level 50 and baseline do same damage except the spec-line one snares.

Delve them in game if you dont believe me

one uf us has never used a lvl 50 snarenuke, while the other has used his lvl 50 snarenuke for a long time in pve and rvr combat.

respec if you dont believe me.

just for the record, we talking about pbae sm here. pbae sm have 22 in darkness and got obsidian strike only with patch 1.62.
 
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Puppetmistress

Guest
Originally posted by Ithurts
U might now about ice-spec but that seems to be it...

Thanks for admitting I know something about ice-spec. It seems we're getting somewhere.

If you look at my signature you see 3 classes with spells. 1 class of that is a theurgist, my main for quite some time (not played very much anymore because I consider the class as most caster-classes broken in RvR).

In group rvr they go down pretty fast even with that pet and they cant cast they just live longer.

You're wrong here. Interrupts are horrible but are based on the delay of the weapon of the opponent hitting you. ' Roughly' it comes down to the fact you're interrupted TILL the opponent swings again. So the interrupt is longer if you're getting hit by a pole-arm speed 5.x then with a rapier of speed 2.0.

Now here comes the trick:

Im talking about THIS fight.
U think that sm couldve casted when Sarg hits at 1.5 spd???

YES (!!!!). Youu may or may not believe this, but it is true. It can also be easily shown if you put a guard on a healer-class (so no quickcast to avoid 'cheating out') and let someone with a one-hander (because shield has a penalty against DW where the pet doesn't btw) try and hit the caster. If the guard blocks 2 succesive strokes in a row it is easy to cast (you dont even need to time it then). If the guard blocks 1 stroke you can cast in the interval between the block and the next hit. If you have fast enough cast-speed (and you have in a buffed RvR group) you can finish your cast uninterrupted till the next swing.

I said Bonedancers needed a nerf ok?

Bonedancers just need a complete redesign to get a role in a group and that ridicilous range 1500 insta-lifetap 4 seconds has to be replaced then as well. Requires a complete rework on the class, not 'just' remove the LT because then the class is entirely unplayable. Wont happen and Mythic will probably give some stupid band-aid or something.


P.S. Don't you think it's stupid to call me 'unknowing' and I dunno what kind of stuff when you self dont have as many experience with the ice-spec line or knowledge about guard/intercept in regards to interrupts on casters? I mean it's quite clear my knowledge about it exceeds yours, which is not to brag or something. You cant know all about the game, you probably know more about savages then I do, but I dont go out calling you ignorant and stuff. Cut it out PLEASE.

P.P.S I am happy to demonstrate it once to you if you still dont believe what I am saying. Problem is it requires 3 classes (caster, guard and buffer) and an enemy to show it to you.
 
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Puppetmistress

Guest
Originally posted by Arnor

if they can be remezzed, what was that sorc whine thread about? not being able to mezz hibs w/o getting an army of pets on you.

Think it was about the use of the STR/CON debuff after the mezz, there the debuff breaks the mezz. Probably due to interrupts before recasting.

I haven't played a mezzer since this patch (I respecced out my AoE ghetto mezz) but you always could remezz pets eg. no immunity. I dunno if they changed it this patch (doubt it) and in the previous patch you could remezz a necro-pet according to PvE rules.

Tho this all is not so relevant to the discussion about interrupts and spec-DD/baseline-DD

you are specced in ice, we have 23 or so, MAX in darkness, hence baseline will vary a bit, and it costs alot of pow.

22 darkness, +11 from items, +RR is pretty decent. Yes it will vary abit. Powercosts are not that extreme to be honest. Like 10% more then a spec-DD lvl45 (edit: and same power as a level 50 spec-nuke)

dont wizzies have aoe-cold debuff+dmg? and aoe root. and the "utilities" we got in darkness, seriously?... [/B]

AoE cold debuff ? Dont recall something like that. AoE-root yes, level 13 earth spell. You get AoE-mezz level 21 (I think) ? And PBAoE-mezz and some debuffs.

Still you get more stuff out of your 2nd line then the wizard gets out his. Tho you can doubt both of them due to low-level spells, I admit that. But that's no different between the two casters.
 
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Puppetmistress

Guest
Originally posted by infozwerg
one uf us has never used a lvl 50 snarenuke, while the other has used his lvl 50 snarenuke for a long time in pve and rvr combat.

Ice-spec DD:

50 Entangling Haze (Potent) Enemy 3.0s/30s/0s Rng: 1500 -35%/179 d (Cold) 33 power

50 Ice Blast (Major) Enemy 2.6s/0s/0s Rng: 1500 179 dmg (Cold) 33 power


respec if you dont believe me.

I just see 2 DD's: One specline, 33 power, DD179 and 35% snare component.

One baseline, 33 power, DD179 and NO snare component.

If you claim to have experience with these 2 spells like you did can you please explain to me why the spec-line does far better then the baseline? The difference is the snare, and the baseline being faster cast, nothing more. And the snare has the nasty habit of NOT working after the only CC of the wizard (root). Over time the baseline does even MORE damage (due to faster cast).

just for the record, we talking about pbae sm here. pbae sm have 22 in darkness and got obsidian strike only with patch 1.62.

Yes, your baseline-nuke will have abit of variance. But it's not 'alot' better and certainly not worth making an issue over if you neglect the PBAOE-delve difference as 'not interesting' only 20 more dmg.
 
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parzi

Guest
yes yes nerf savages....
oh wait...
nerf... a caster
hahahaha
good one
 
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azshara

Guest
Originally posted by Ithurts
Im talking about THIS fight.
U think that sm couldve casted when Sarg hits at 1.5 spd???
if u check the screenies u can see he did... lifedrained me in between the intercepts once ;d
 
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Ithurts

Guest
Originally posted by azshara
if u check the screenies u can see he did... lifedrained me in between the intercepts once ;d

Maybe a qc? There are RAs u know...
 
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Ithurts

Guest
I still hold on to the group rvr thing...
Very hard to get of a spell when pet intercepts so I still say they cant cast while someone hitting them(and their pet).
U need about 2 intercepts in a row and u need to time it right etc which can be hard and is even not that common.

And I do agree with the ice thing u are talking about(cba to read it all).
And i do know about the guard thing, just read somewhere it didnt work that way with intercept, my bad :x

Sorry for saying u dont know shit but still hold on to the tard thing :p
 
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azshara

Guest
Originally posted by Ithurts
Maybe a qc? There are RAs u know...
qc was already used.. and i rly doubt he got concentration :p
 
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Puppetmistress

Guest
Originally posted by Ithurts
I still hold on to the group rvr thing...
Very hard to get of a spell when pet intercepts so I still say they cant cast while someone hitting them(and their pet).

U need about 2 intercepts in a row and u need to time it right etc which can be hard and is even not that common.

You think? Mythic said it is set at 50%. Lets for the hypothesis think it's really 50% and not 60% or something.

First hit, chance to intercept 50%
Second hit, chance to intercept 50%

Chance to intercept 1st and 2nd: 50% * 50% = 25% for the first two sings to get off a single-cast.

25% uncommon? And I am not even taking into account that the next cast has a 50% chance to get through after this one.


And I do agree with the ice thing u are talking about(cba to read it all).

Strange you agree with something you didn't read :/


And i do know about the guard thing, just read somewhere it didnt work that way with intercept, my bad :x

Sorry for saying u dont know shit but still hold on to the tard thing :p

LOL.
 
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Ithurts

Guest
Originally posted by azshara
qc was already used.. and i rly doubt he got concentration :p

U never know...
Some people might do stupid things like forgetting to put con into creation etc :x
 
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Ithurts

Guest
I said READ IT ALL, i read some and but not every word in detail :p

Anyway in rvr u dont just get 1 tank on u so chances decrease.
 
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azshara

Guest
Originally posted by Ithurts
U never know...
Some people might do stupid things like forgetting to put con into creation etc :x
fu :(
 
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andruril

Guest
TBH i wouldnt be that botherd he intercepted thatmuch (dont know if the SM pet was buffed or not, if so it would make sense he intercepted that much) but PA being intercepted? thats just wrong...

i mean ok if he intercepts all the other blow, just Perf should have gotten through, i mean that pet is like pbt if you look at it that way....

Perf go's through BT whilst any other attack doesnt... shouldnt this be the same for the intercept pet? or am i being a total retard right now.
 
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Driwen

Guest
Originally posted by Puppetmistress
You think? Mythic said it is set at 50%. Lets for the hypothesis think it's really 50% and not 60% or something.

First hit, chance to intercept 50%
Second hit, chance to intercept 50%

Chance to intercept 1st and 2nd: 50% * 50% = 25% for the first two sings to get off a single-cast.

25% uncommon? And I am not even taking into account that the next cast has a 50% chance to get through after this one.

common people should know better that mythic random number generator is completly random by now:p. It isnt that rare for crafters to make 200+ weapons and then finally get a mp. The chance on getting your mp after making 200 weapons is 1.8% it still happens though. So that would mean that having 4 intercepts and 2 not (which is the case here) in random order, has a chance of 23.4% so there is a reasonable chance that if you hit the sm 6 times that his pet will intercept it 4 times out of that 6.
 
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Puppetmistress

Guest
Originally posted by andruril
TBH i wouldnt be that botherd he intercepted thatmuch (dont know if the SM pet was buffed or not, if so it would make sense he intercepted that much) but PA being intercepted? thats just wrong...

i mean ok if he intercepts all the other blow, just Perf should have gotten through, i mean that pet is like pbt if you look at it that way....

Perf go's through BT whilst any other attack doesnt... shouldnt this be the same for the intercept pet? or am i being a total retard right now.

If you hit (P)BT you're still interrupted while being intercepted/guarded you aint

If you intercept someone/something takes damage, while with (P)BT you dont

I dont think you should compare them.
 
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Puppetmistress

Guest
Originally posted by driwen
common people should know better that mythic random number generator is completly random by now:p. It isnt that rare for crafters to make 200+ weapons and then finally get a mp. The chance on getting your mp after making 200 weapons is 1.8% it still happens though. So that would mean that having 4 intercepts and 2 not (which is the case here) in random order, has a chance of 23.4% so there is a reasonable chance that if you hit the sm 6 times that his pet will intercept it 4 times out of that 6.

1.8% is an event which happens on average once every 100/1.8 = one in 55 tries. Ofcourse it will happen.

I dont know if the random number-generator is wrongly programmed but I do know that an event that has a chance of 1.8% will happen if you try it often enough.

No proove to me the random-generator is fucked tbh.
 
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Spamb0t

Guest
Originally posted by Arnor
so he used 2 ra's on 30mins timers, costing a combined of what 33rsps, and he killed you? omfg!!!

And fyi, I have a sm, so yes I know they have a baseline nuke(got upgraded this patch though, used to be a lvl 43 one, which does 100-200dmg if not resisted.)


Now, I've never played a mincer, but let me tell you how I would've gone at it:
Mezz from stealth, attack sm, when he qc's or moc's use stun. If he then purges, you run away a bit. He'll most likely nuke you with retard-nuke, or run after to pb. Or he'll st-mezz you to run and pb.
Lets say he mezzes you. In the time he has done this: ie, mezz and run to you, he doesnt have much time left on moc. If mincers got snare, you snare when he purges etc.

ps: grats on knowing how to style. But that doesnt matter _that_ much vs a caster tbh.


ok.. u havent figured out what this thread is about yet? that i died has NOTHING to do with it.. i wasnt whining.. i coulda ended my post before how the fight ended.. as the post was about how many of my attacks vs the SM the pet intercepted (in the only fight ive had vs a sm)

but ok to make things clear for u... ive got about 1200 hp.. NO resists.... he pbae'd me for maybe 500 + 300 dmg.. and then single target nuke for 300 + 300 dmg (or whatever)... and that pretty much kills anything that has 1200 hp.
the lvl50 baseline nuke does NOT only do 100-200 dmg... its got like 500-600 cap dmg depending on MoM.. +crits.. and as mids got all power relics on prydwen... and i had no resists.. u dont nuke for tooo far away from cap.. even with a 21(or whatever u get)+11(items)+5(rr) dark spec... my chanter nukes for like 150-200 dmg with baseline nuke vs ppl WITH CAP RESISTS (+possible resist buffs) when the debuff gets resisted.. and thats with 20+11+4 light.
 
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Driwen

Guest
Originally posted by Puppetmistress
1.8% is an event which happens on average once every 100/1.8 = one in 55 tries. Ofcourse it will happen.

I dont know if the random number-generator is wrongly programmed but I do know that an event that has a chance of 1.8% will happen if you try it often enough.

No proove to me the random-generator is fucked tbh.

nope, but random generator does allow for small chances to happen. It could have been programmed in a way that only chances bigger than 10% could happen, but it isnt. Now if a 1.8% occurence is remembered to happen reasonable often (actually just meaning that people just craft alot) is an occurence that has a chance of 23% of happening isnt that rare now is it?
So what did you then try to say with that part that intercepting has a higher chance than 50% because 4 intercepts in 6 hits happen so often? Well if the chance is 23% of course it will happen often.
 
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Arnor

Guest
try basing your assumptions on something more then 3 hits, ok?

and I was talking about pre patch nuke (kinda forgot we got a new one) which is lvl 43 and does 100-200.

The lvl 50 baseline caps at 538dmg w/o mom.
 

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