Smoking bans

[Chronictank]

no, not like me at all. where did i post saying i am better than people cos i do/dont smoke. and where did i call a smoker/non smoker an idiot for being a smoker/non smoker?
if you had read the whole thread, you can clearly see there is people like i described. and if thats how they go on then is there any point trying to communicate anymore?

imo, no .

Wasnt refering to the whole thread, but to that post where you say

redi, just forget it man. there is only about 5 of us here who have a clue about anything thats going.

if thats the only argument to ban it, its pretty rofl dont you think? driving cars harms the whole of our planet but no one really gives a shit. people keep on trucking. drinking alcohol harms people, when the drunkard goes out of control. do you see?

Hardly, smoking outside harms the planet technically speaking but its not banned completely is it?
As for noone giving a shit,
http://unfccc.int/2860.php
just to name one thing thats being done to counteract global warming.
But thats pretty irrelevant,
your saying you should be allowed to smoke inside because its your right to do so, even if it is impending on other peoples rights to relatively clean air.
It's technically my right to go round on a killing spree with a machete, so should i be allowed to?
An extreme example yes, but its effectively an extreme version of what you are saying.
NOONE is free to do as they please, thats just the society we live in, the human race hasn't evolved enough to be able to think past themselves as a result rules are invented to govern how we live.

I do however think the government went about this all wrong and took the easy way out, if they said smoking was banned bar in places where there is well ventilated, iscolated area's where people could go light up then it would give the choice to people whether to go in there or not.

 

[noblok]

Ban or no ban, you can't do any good.

No ban: Smokers can smoke in pubs. Non-smokers can still go to pubs, but they'll have to put up with the smoke.
Ban: Non-smokers can go to pubs without having to care about second-hand smoke. Smokers can still smoke, but will have to go outside.

So, both cause an inconvenience. The inconvenience caused by the ban is smaller, but the ban also limits personal freedom. I don't know which is worse, but I don't see the problem with having the landlord decide.

 

[Calaen]

Congratulations! that statement just made you look even more stupid. It just shows that you are completly clueless. It happened to me aswell when i moved where i love atm. I got in touch with the wrong people and they all smoked. So when they took a smoke i was standing there with them (ofc because they were my friends) and after some time i started smoking to. I smoked for over 2 years until i figured "hey i dont need this anymore". Call me stupid or whatever you want but it's not allways easy to come to a new place and fit in.

You my friend are a moron. Most of my friends done weed I didnt why? because I did not want to. Most of my friends smoked I didnt why? because I did not want to. You always have a choice before you start smoking, I just happen to be one of those guys that does not need to copy off their friends to feel wanted.

 

[Krait]

I do however think the government went about this all wrong and took the easy way out, if they said smoking was banned bar in places where there is well ventilated, iscolated area's where people could go light up then it would give the choice to people whether to go in there or not.

Thats the part that Redi's original post was all about...........shame a lot of the other posts became Them versus Us with the usual insults being flung around :/

 

[noblok]

your saying you should be allowed to smoke inside because its your right to do so, even if it is impending on other peoples rights to relatively clean air.

People have the right to fresh air, but they aren't forced to go into a smoky pub either, I don't see the problem.

It's technically my right to go round on a killing spree with a machete, so should i be allowed to?

It isn't technically your right to go on a killing spree with a machete. Legally nor morally. This analogy doesn't make sense. Going on a killing spree with a machete means you have the intent to kill/hurt people. Smokers do not smoke with the purpose to kill/hurt others. Smoky places can be avoided more easily than someone on a killing spree. A smoker won't follow you around with his cigarette and blow his smoke in your face.

I do however think the government went about this all wrong and took the easy way out, if they said smoking was banned bar in places where there is well ventilated, iscolated area's where people could go light up then it would give the choice to people whether to go in there or not.

I agree.

 

[Outlander]

shame a lot of the other posts became Them versus Us

right you god damn smokers!

*throws down gauntlet*

tomorrow at dawn, the lower field! your weapon of choice!

*climbs on horse and rides off*

 

[adoNix]

You my friend are a moron. Most of my friends done weed I didnt why? because I did not want to. Most of my friends smoked I didnt why? because I did not want to. You always have a choice before you start smoking, I just happen to be one of those guys that does not need to copy off their friends to feel wanted.

Dude i wasnt talking of weed, i was talking of regular sigaretes ;o thaught this thread was about regular sigarets and not weed ;o did i get something wrong or? I wouldnt have smoked weed tbh. And you are calling youre friends morons aswell then, because they do weed? Why do you bother hanging out with morons?

And yeah i made the choice to start smoking at first. But i also chose to quit 5-6 months ago. So does that make me a moron? all im saying is that there are more in the picture than just a simple yes or no to some people. And it's not that simple that you are trying to make it look.

 

[Krait]

right you god damn smokers!

*throws down gauntlet*

tomorrow at dawn, the lower field! your weapon of choice!

*climbs on horse and rides off*

I'll bring my packet of baccy and some papers................

 

[noblok]

Dude i wasnt talking of weed, i was talking of regular sigaretes ;o thaught this thread was about regular sigarets and not weed ;o did i get something wrong or? I wouldnt have smoked weed tbh.

What they smoke isn't relevant for the point he's making. You have the choice to smoke or not to smoke.

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

<snip> I just happen to be one of those guys that does not need to copy off their friends to feel wanted.

And THERE you have it... Now try empathise with those that may not have this strenght or live this way....

 

[tris-]

although noblok is right, i think calaen doesnt understand the problem. people actually have bad social skills. yes, its true . and some people with these problems will do what ever to be in a social circle. they believe they are doing the right thing.

 

[Bubble]

Like most non smokers i don't give a shit if someone wants to smoke or not, thats there choice. Passive smoking and clubs/pubs that are like smoke filled grot holes are what annot me

Maybe instead of banning it they could ban the pubs/clubs/bars unless they pass a ventilation check etc, improving the bars would be a better thing to do. (i'm sure most club owners would rather install better ventilation than have there place shut down.

 

[Morchaoron]

they believe they are doing the right thing.

hmmm maybe what they need is a 'de-chavanization' training camp...

 

[Calaen]

although noblok is right, i think calaen doesnt understand the problem. people actually have bad social skills. yes, its true . and some people with these problems will do what ever to be in a social circle. they believe they are doing the right thing.

I understand the problem, some of my friends started because their friends smoked. I am still friends with them. Just because I chose not to smoke you guys are talking like im a dick because I am in control of my decisions. Yes some people are not able to do this, I really dont mind though.

 

[tris-]

what? seemed you were calling people with social skill problems were idiots. odd, but i believe someone else thought the same as me too.

oh well

 

[Calaen]

what? seemed you were calling people with social skill problems were idiots. odd, but i believe someone else thought the same as me too.

oh well

If someone has to smoke to feel needed is their issue, they should perhaps see a counsellor.

 

[Chronictank]

People have the right to fresh air, but they aren't forced to go into a smoky pub either, I don't see the problem.

Equally, people have the right to go outside and smoke.
People arent forced to smoke inside, in fact if they did this issue wouldnt exist
Round and round it goes, its a pointless thing to debate so i will leave it at that.

It isn't technically your right to go on a killing spree with a machete. Legally nor morally. This analogy doesn't make sense. Going on a killing spree with a machete means you have the intent to kill/hurt people. Smokers do not smoke with the purpose to kill/hurt others. Smoky places can be avoided more easily than someone on a killing spree. A smoker won't follow you around with his cigarette and blow his smoke in your face.

Yet it is morally fine to fill other people who like you, enjoy a night in a pub/club with the pollution you are exhaling?
You may not be holding them down and blowing smoke into their lungs, you are doing it without them even knowing about it as the smoke isnt from that very instance. Its the collective result of many people smoking in a confined space.
And soon legally it will be wrong too.
But we are digressing from the original point of the thread,
the analogy was simply to illustrate that just because people can do something doesnt make it any more right

 

[Dimse Dut]

ARGHHHHH ( Insert Curses here and if your not good at it get straef to help you =D )

ITS ABOUT FREEDOM OF CHOICE!!!!

Do you HONESTLY want goverments to have THAT much controll? People have Died in wars to defend OUR right to choose FREELY, and now you guys want to toss it all overboard because someone is smoking?

(For those who have been desensitized to the word death by playing DAoC let me explain it to you in DAoC terms: on Death in RL You cannot /release, Your character has been permantly whiped from the Database and GoA cannot help you, and no you cant access FH to whine about it.)

I know Im painting an extreme picture here that has not to friendly echo in the past but Where does it stop? Who is next on the "LIST"?

Artists who paint disturbing pictures that may offend some?
Writers who write about things that we REALY dont want to know about?
People who dont view life the way "I" do and therefor have to be wrong by default?
People who worship a different god than I do?

The World today is a scary place with evils lurking behind every corner, but letting goverments decide what is right and wrong just because you are to scared to think isnt wise because : THEY ARE JUST AS STUPID AS WE ARE they are only better at hidding it.

To the more RABID posters I have this to say:
There are Insanely High taxes on cigarettes ( atleast here in Denmark) so when a Smoker needs medical help trust me he has payed for the whole damn thing with every cigarette he smoked so dont come with the " they dont deserve medical help" crap. On the other hand Mineworkers who's lungs are done in for didnt pay extra taxes so No help for him because in your way of thinking he "could have just found another job". People who get aids could just have watched a porn movie and whacked off instead so no help for them either.


I RESPECT peoples choices so when im in the company of non smokers i dont smoke in their vicinity, and I want them to respect MY choice in return.

What it boils down to: Respect of the Individuals right to choose, and yes it works BOTH WAYS =D


NB: Question: Why are there always non smokers in the smoking launge?

 

[Alan]

If it was just down to the public to decide whether to go to Pub-A or Pub-B due to one allowing smoking and one not then this would be fine.

But you have to think of the members of staff that work int hese Pubs, maybe that was the only job they could get after being made redundant from there previous job, maybe they have two kids to support - is it fair for the owner of that pub to say if you want the job you have to put up with people smoking.

I've been smoking 20 a day and welcome a public ban, If i want a fag I can just go outside but for those people who have to work ina smokey environment they do not have that option.

 

[Chronictank]

I RESPECT peoples choices so when im in the company of non smokers i dont smoke in their vicinity, and I want them to respect MY choice in return.

What it boils down to: Respect of the Individuals right to choose, and yes it works BOTH WAYS =D


NB: Question: Why are there always non smokers in the smoking launge?

once again i will again repeat myself,
it is not you smoking at that time that causes the problems, its the collective result of many people smoking which effectively creates a "atmosphere" in the confined, badly ventilated spaces that clubs and pubs are.
And we dont really have smoking lounges in the UK, whereas in denmark (correct me if im wrong) , you arent allowed to smoke in a resteraunt for example and there are special areas to go and have a smoke in?

As for the comic, it was a abuse of "freedom of speech", not that there really is freedom of speech (sp?). But thats a completely different topic and i wont discuss it here as most points have already been said.

 

[Dimse Dut]

once again i will again repeat myself,
it is not you smoking at that time that causes the problems, its the collective result of many people smoking which effectively creates a "atmosphere" in the confined, badly ventilated spaces that clubs and pubs are.
And we dont really have smoking lounges in the UK, whereas in denmark (correct me if im wrong) , you arent allowed to smoke in a resteraunt for example and there are special areas to go and have a smoke in?

As for the comic, it was a abuse of "freedom of speech", not that there really is freedom of speech (sp?). But thats a completely different topic and i wont discuss it here as most points have already been said.

In the spirit of your reply then...

I dont drink and we all know that if your sobber drunk people are not the most fun crowd to be around...so you will be on my side if I start to advocate for outlawing alcohol in clubs and bars...right?

 

[Chronictank]

In the spirit of your reply then...

I dont drink and we all know that if your sobber drunk people are not the most fun crowd to be around...so you will be on my side if I start to advocate for outlawing alcohol in clubs and bars...right?

wrong,
drinking responsibly doesnt harm others.
Smoking regardless how you do it in a confined space is harming anyone else in there, smokers or not

 

[Sparx]

I understand the problem, some of my friends started because their friends smoked. I am still friends with them. Just because I chose not to smoke you guys are talking like im a dick because I am in control of my decisions. Yes some people are not able to do this, I really dont mind though.

The problem here is not you being a dick for making your own decisions, the problem here is you not being able to undertstand that not everyone has the ability to do so. You seem to think cause you can do it everyone else should and if they cant they are weak.

Last time i am posting cause he really doesnt get it at all

 

[Morchaoron]

ITS ABOUT FREEDOM OF CHOICE!!!!

before the ban, non-smokers could CHOOSE to go to a bar,
but were FORCED to sit in the smoke

after the ban, smokers can CHOOSE to go to a bar,
but are FORCED not to cause the smoke

no choice is gained or lost, it has simply switched hands and now benefits non-smokers instead of the smokers, at least thats the way i see it xD

 

[tris-]

so you think its cool to take away peoples right to smoke in a public house.

are you with me on banning an averages joes right to use a vehcile? because their fumes sure do wreck the environment.

quote -
before the ban, non-smokers could CHOOSE to go to a bar,
but were FORCED to sit in the smoke

if they chose to go in then its not really being forced.

 

[Dimse Dut]

wrong,
drinking responsibly doesnt harm others.
Smoking regardless how you do it in a confined space is harming anyone else in there, smokers or not

Ah yes and so many people drink responsibly so no laws are needed there.....

 

[Morchaoron]

so you think its cool to take away peoples right to smoke in a public house.

You think its cool to take away peoples right to sit in a stenchless environment (in public houses)?

are you with me on banning an averages joes right to use a vehcile? because their fumes sure do wreck the environment.

Without vehicles, we would feel the pain of wrecking our economy more then the pain of wrecking our environment

if they chose to go in then its not really being forced.

If smokers dont go to a bar/club they are not forced not to smoke

 

[Chronictank]

Ah yes and so many people drink responsibly so no laws are needed there.....

thats pretty irrelevant dont you think?
read previous quote

 

[tris-]

Without vehicles, we would feel the pain of wrecking our economy more then the pain of wrecking our environment

but i dont like my environment being spoiled! when i walk down the street, the cars make my CO levels go up. the amount of dB they make causes damage to my ears! if i cycle behind a bus, damnit i cant breath!

you must take away peoples rights to use vehicles, because i dont like it!

 

[Chronictank]

i guess we will just have to agree to disagree,
we live in a democracy where the majority vote rules, and the majority has spoken evidently