Smoking bans

[Blow]

Just make 2 different pubs, one where you cannot smoke at all, and one
where everybody has to smoke a cig. every 30 mins. If you get caught
not smoking in the smoking bar you get kicked out and get a ban/fine.

Other option is to make a smoke strike, all smokers of the world should
not smoke for like 8 weeks, lets see how happy the goverments then are,
missing all those taxes.

 

[Rediknight]

Same old arguments from both sides. I might aswell chip in.

first off I am a non smoker (not tried it once).

I have no problem with people smoking, if they want to run the risk of causing themselves bodily harm its there choice. I have no Scientific proof that passove smoking will cause me any harm at all. However after a casual lunchtime out with friends I go back to work and my clothes stink, my hair stinks and my skin stinks. If I am out at the local watching the football by the time I go home my throat will be dry and itchy from the smoke.

Is there a non-smoking establishment nearby? If not, what difference does that argument make? If landlords could choose, then it would then be your decision to go into a smoking bar. Smokers would go to the smoking bars and everyone would be happy, right?

So taking this into consideration I can honestly say passive smoking is no good for me at all. I have no problems with washing my clothes after a night out, however if I end up somewhere I did not expect to and wake up the next day it will be nice to know I can go home in clothes that dont smell like they actually smoke. My shit stinks but I dont cover you in it.

And you think that going out for the night, having a dance and a drink, mingling with hundreds of other people, your clothes will still smell of Daz when you put them on the next day? Sweat smells worse than smoke in my opinion - smelling of dirt or sweat makes me think that person doesn't wash. Smelling of smoke makes me think that person is a smoker.

I do believe the landlord making the decision is a good idea, but as already mentioned unless they pay for proper equipment which will suck the shit from the air its dont really work to good. Most of the places you go to are not even separated properly, having 2 yards space between smoking and non smoking with a little no smoking sign is not enough. If the landlord was going to install new kit the prices would no doubt go up.

As i said, they have the choice to make the bar entirely smoking or entirely non-smoking, so extra air-conditioning/air-circulation equipment from todays current setup wouldn't be needed - as a smoker i'm happy with the air quality in the pubs i drink in.

Just because it isnt proven to have a bad affect on everyone does not mean that they should be subjected to it.

Just because it's proven that hardcore anti-smokers will through acres of fresh air to reach a smokers personal space and whine, doesn't meant i should have any sympathy for them. They chose to put themselves in that position - if i walked up to a bunch of non-smokers and lit up then fair enough, but i don't.

I just wish they would stop people that are suffering from smoke related issues wasting the time and money of the NHS. Smokers always say you die anyways but when they find out the have cancer and have to stop smoking they cry like fuck and regret it and take up a hospital bed that someone more important could use.

I won't cry - i know the risks, but thats all they are - RISKS, not guarantees. Equally, if every single smoker stopped today then the NHS, that you are so adamant we should be excluded from, would crumble. Smokers pay for the NHS through the taxes we pay, and BOY do we pay, but for some reason we are told we should be excluded from it??

Bill Hicks was a great advocate of smoking, more precisely he was a great advocate of the right to smoke, and later on in the greatest slant of irony ever, died of pancreatic cancer thought to have been bought on by smoking.

He knew the risks and even when he found out, even when he had given it up, he still preached for the right to smoke.

It's not even about the health issues, the smell, the social stigmatism placed on it, the utter selfishness of some of both smokers and non-smokers alike - its about THE RIGHT to smoke.

If the government can stop that right, with no proper consultation or any real trustworthy review of the situation, what they going to ban next? Meat? Sugar? Salt? Beer?

Let this happen and it'll not stop - it's a snowball into an oppresive state which is dictated by the loudest voice with the most friends in high places.

Even non-smokers MUST be able to see what the governments of the US and Europe are trying to do here...

 

[Rediknight]

You are so wrong if I run you over its not your fault. People do fall ill and you know this, instead you talk big like you usually do. I would rather a bed go to someone who has been shot, stabbed or fell over. instead of someone who has smoked and is now having problems with their lungs because of this. I have no sympathy for anyone causing self harm. If you wanna slash your wrists do it fucking properly and stay hidden so you cant get found, dont do it then get discovered and waste hospital time.

So, lets just leave the deep issues of self harming alone - trust me, if you had to live with a self-harmer you woudn't even think to compare the two. You have really pissed me off with that statement, but im staying on topic and leaving this, you f*ckin chump. (pardon the french, but that has really ground my goat)

Are you now saying that gun crime and stabbings are less of an issue in this society, so should come behind smoking as something that should be addressed? You are out of your mind - breathing in a bit of smoke, or being shot/stabbed - what would you prefer?

If this goes through and you one day suffer from lung problems and go to hospital, it is then diagnosed as damage caused by Carbon Monoxide from cars? Would you immediately stop driving and become an advocate for reducing emissions, searching for alternative fuelled vehicles? I doubt it, but it's proven that the air quality in London has an adverse effect on people whether they smoke or not - you saying that drivers should be refused care for health issues because they drive?

Stop segregating this argument - its about THE RIGHT to smoke, not about the right to treatment in a hospital.

 

[tris-]

just a little thing - how funny would it be if every smoker stopped smoking for like a month and e.g. the price of petrol rocketed up.

 

[tris-]

if every smoker died in the same month, im sure the country would plummet into shit.

lol, stealth edits by outlander

 

[Calaen]

So, lets just leave the deep issues of self harming alone - trust me, if you had to live with a self-harmer you woudn't even think to compare the two. You have really pissed me off with that statement, but im staying on topic and leaving this, you f*ckin chump. (pardon the french, but that has really ground my goat)

Are you now saying that gun crime and stabbings are less of an issue in this society, so should come behind smoking as something that should be addressed? You are out of your mind - breathing in a bit of smoke, or being shot/stabbed - what would you prefer?

If this goes through and you one day suffer from lung problems and go to hospital, it is then diagnosed as damage caused by Carbon Monoxide from cars? Would you immediately stop driving and become an advocate for reducing emissions, searching for alternative fuelled vehicles? I doubt it, but it's proven that the air quality in London has an adverse effect on people whether they smoke or not - you saying that drivers should be refused care for health issues because they drive?

Stop segregating this argument - its about THE RIGHT to smoke, not about the right to treatment in a hospital.

My point is you choose to harm your body out of choice. My uncle died at the age of 40 due to an overdose. He had been a heroine addict since he was 18, he tried to quit lots of times but he could not resist the temptation even though he knew he was killing himself. When he died I felt no sympathy for him at all, he died because he chose to keep taking the stuff that was killing him.

My mother has had cancer and she still smokes I hardly speak to her because she is ridiculous, I love her with all my heart, but I think she is a joke.

 

[Karl]

No No No!! Lets not get onto this topic!!!

It can only lead to tears!!

 

[Rediknight]

Calaen, do you understand what the word "Addiction" means? Addiction doesn't leave you with a choice! To overcome an addiction it's tougher than anything else on earth - you're body has adapted and in a lot of cases cannot function without that particular stimulant/addative/drug/hormone/prescription or whatever. Equally, to compare the love, handouts and care groups that are dedicated to getting people off of drugs like Heroin and Crack to the abuse and total lack of compassion towards smokers is just stupid.

You have a big heart, i can tell...

edit: New sig for me!! heh!

 

[tris-]

i think calaens argument is they know what they got them selves into. which sometimes is fair enough. but we live in a society where everyone is entitled to help.

 

[Kaun_IA]

i'm a non smoker and tbh i dont care if ppl next to me are smoking

Its somthing thats always been there and in a way it adds to what pubs are.

Yes i been in a pub where the smoke was so bad i couldnt breath, did i complain to my MP? no i went to the pub next door, easy as that


Now if i am chatting to a mate i will need to go outside with him while he has a fag. That inconvieniences me aswell as the smoker

yep same whit me whit some of my m8s

like when we are out whit like 5 of us or so. and usually 2 - 3 smoke.... we all go outside and continue our conversations outside while they smoke. i only dont like when ppl smoke in restoraunts fucks up the tast of the food and etc

 

[Sparx]

my parents brought me up to think snf do things for myself, i dont like something then think for myself to change it, not go BAA BAA BAAAAAA and let someone else make my decisions

What are our grandchildren going to be llike when they cant make decisions for themselves cause the government have changed everything

Going back to the topic of banning colours in schools cause they will offend, i pity our grandkids, in 50 years time they wont know what the colour black is, is will be called night time or something stupid like that

But with smoking why do i need protecting from passive smoking? nearly every pub has a non smoking section, guess what? i know how to use those things below my waist and make my own decision to sit in that non smoking section

 

[Sparx]

Calaen, do you understand what the word "Addiction" means? Addiction doesn't leave you with a choice! To overcome an addiction it's tougher than anything else on earth - you're body has adapted and in a lot of cases cannot function without that particular stimulant/addative/drug/hormone/prescription or whatever. Equally, to compare the love, handouts and care groups that are dedicated to getting people off of drugs like Heroin and Crack to the abuse and total lack of compassion towards smokers is just stupid.

You have a big heart, i can tell...

edit: New sig for me!! heh!

I 100% agree with Rediknight here. Addiction means not your choice. Its not their choice to do these things their bodies crave it so much it drives them insane

 

[Morchaoron]

I wonder how the non smokers would feel if they made it illegal to NOT smoke in bars.

I wonder how non-knife swallowers would feel if they made it illegal to NOT swallow knives in bars...

get the point? -_-

 

[Sparx]

yep same whit me whit some of my m8s

like when we are out whit like 5 of us or so. and usually 2 - 3 smoke.... we all go outside and continue our conversations outside while they smoke. i only dont like when ppl smoke in restoraunts fucks up the tast of the food and etc

And yeah the only time it annoys me is when i am eating, a few of my mates have done that, resulting in a slap. But thats all, mainly cause its just plain rude

 

[Calaen]

I 100% agree with Rediknight here. Addiction means not your choice. Its not their choice to do these things their bodies crave it so much it drives them insane

Of course they have a choice lol, yes not taking things might make there body react strange.

 

[Sparx]

have you ever been addicted, physically to something.

I'm not talking about things like chocolate here where you really want some, i'm talking physical here where your body shuts down you throw up and you actually collapse etc from not having this thing in you?

Thats not choice mate

 

[Rediknight]

Of course they have a choice lol, yes not taking things might make there body react strange.

Make their body react strange... in some instances die, you mean? I'm not going to sensationalise anything like this, but if your body becomes reliant on an artificial stimulant to produce a particular substance that your body relies on to keep you alive, or equally learns to rely on that artificial stimulant to maintain itself, then when it is taken away in some cases the addict can die.

Is any of this getting through? Alright, its an extreme example when we're meant to be talking about peoples RIGHTS to smoke, but lets explore it a bit more.

I'd love to see how you'd react if you found out one of your closest mates was a skaghead - what, you expect him to just "stop" doing it? He has best part of two options - one, get on a program of alternative medicine, which is aimed at slowly weening the body off of its dependancy.

The other is to "go turkey".

I defy you to spend more than a week in the company of someone taking the hard route and STILL come out of it telling that person they had the choice to stop. You say your uncle was a heroin addict for 22 years? Did you actually talk to him at all, or did you plump for the knee-jerk of just "omgwtf, you druggie twat - im not talking to you til you give it up!" option?

You are ill informed - don't comment on things you don't understand.

Back to smoking - If the House of Commons bar isn't going to have smoking banned on the grounds that it is a palace, does that mean i can smoke in Buckingham Palace tour?

What about cathedrals?

It's this type of half arse, wonky society decisions that the government have got to address, otherwise it won't be long before the people completely lose faith and refuse to abide by ANY of the "laws" they set, then what?

Long dangerous road the government are walking with this one - it hinges on far more than just the consequences of passive smoking...

 

[Karl]

Of course they have a choice lol, yes not taking things might make there body react strange.

They have a choice and lots of people make the choice to give up... then the addiction kicks in... and thats the ONLY thing on thier mind, they lose all ability to realise what they are doing and the only thing that goes through thier head is "how do i get my next hit? I NEED IT!! IM Going to DIE if i dont get it!!!" and they honestly believe that...

Not "hmm i really fancy some more of that, but its a bit bad for me... should i? shouldn't i? hmmm... yeah go on then!"

99.99% of people will require rehab or a somebody with them 24/7 to help them break the addiction... and that friend better be prepared to recieve a LOT of shit from thier addicted mate who will HATE them untill they get over the addiction and clarity returns to thier mind, then they realise what they have done.

 

[Karl]

The other is to "go turkey".

I think thats "Go Cold Turkey"

Unless they have some good rehab clinics in Turky?

 

[Rediknight]

haha! that was why i put it in inverted commas - i got so used to calling it that - "cold" seems superfluous and could be used somewhere much better

 

[Calaen]

I defy you to spend more than a week in the company of someone taking the hard route and STILL come out of it telling that person they had the choice to stop. You say your uncle was a heroin addict for 22 years? Did you actually talk to him at all, or did you plump for the knee-jerk of just "omgwtf, you druggie twat - im not talking to you til you give it up!" option?

You are ill informed - don't comment on things you don't understand.

Well saying as I actually spent time with my uncle during one of his attempts to give up I think I am perfectly able to comment. It was hell for him sweating, crying, being sick, pissing and shitting with no control. He managed to give up the drugs once or twice but he always had 2 much money so he would always go back for more.

you do not get addicted to after having one go at them. The people that become addicted are more than aware of the possibility of them becoming addicted this is when they make the CHOICE to carry on with using the stuff.

 

[Rediknight]

How you do you know you don't become addicted after one "go"? Whether that initial addiction is mental or physical you are either badly wording your argument, or just don't see the wood for the trees...

Read back what you've written - does that sound like the actions of someone who had a choice?

It's obvious you have no idea what it's like to suffer and you're very lucky to be able to have such a narrow mind as yours - it leads to caring less, as we can see, and allows you to continue your life, focussed and undeterred by the short fallings of everyone around you.

Im glad your life is that simple.

right, now you've said your piece - back on topic!!

SMOKING!!!

 

[Karl]

If you go back for more after breaking the addiction then you really are acting a bit stupid, but often with a clouded mind.

A lot of it stems for deep emotional problems though... depression and unhappiness in thier current life/situation. Everybody needs something to fall back on... for lots of people thats a cup of hot choclate and a comedy etc but for people who have a weakness towards drugs they can get thier minds in a mix up.

Most people take the attitude of "It happend to him and him and him.... but it wont happen to me...." which is a shame cos when it does happen to them they dont realise it untill its to late

Me being a smoker... every time i have attempted to give up I get agitated with something... somebody tells me that "You dont do any work, just look at forums all day" ... then ill think "I need a ciggy" after ive had one i dont feel any better, i just smell!

Lucky for me my fall back is ciggys rather then harder drugs... Once you have been adicited your are.... cant remember the exact statistics.. Ten times more likley to fall prey to it again?

You have to really watch yourself and surround yourself with things to make sure yu never even think about thsoe things again.

 

[Calaen]

It's obvious you have no idea what it's like to suffer and you're very lucky to be able to have such a narrow mind as yours - it leads to caring less, as we can see, and allows you to continue your life, focussed and undeterred by the short fallings of everyone around you.

Im glad your life is that simple.

right, now you've said your piece - back on topic!!

SMOKING!!!

My life is simple, I dont do anything that I don't want, (this would be me making a choice) oh fuck I am addicted to doing nothing so I am not actually making a choice People make a choice you live and and die by your decisions anyway.

 

[tris-]

right. i thought maybe you were a rational person but that oppinion is sliding away at an ever increasing rate.
EVERYONE is entitled to health care. take this scenario -

skag head. cant afford more skag and has 2 choices -

a)goes to a clinic and gets on a program
b)steals money

its obvious then, seen as you only think some people 'deserve' health care, that you think he should steal. obviously he shouldnt get health care because he brought this life upon him self.

 

[Tilda]

Also, for those of you who dont read the news, the commons bar, stated, on the same day as question time no less, that they would be following the new law totally, despite their royal palace designation. Sometimes I wonder if half of you only read the sun.

 

[Rediknight]

i just heard that too heh! Though i'd be surprised if anyone said anything if someone lit up a cigar down there or something... what the commoners don't see won't harm us

To be honest, i only read the sports in red top rags - for some reason the Guardian can't do a decent football review

 

[Calaen]

right. i thought maybe you were a rational person but that oppinion is sliding away at an ever increasing rate.
EVERYONE is entitled to health care. take this scenario -

skag head. cant afford more skag and has 2 choices -

a)goes to a clinic and gets on a program
b)steals money

its obvious then, seen as you only think some people 'deserve' health care, that you think he should steal. obviously he shouldnt get health care because he brought this life upon him self.

You miss understand me Tris, I did not say dont give them healthcare in every aspect of it I believe rehab is ideal if the person sticks at it.. I was using the I have lung cancer from smoking 80 a day omg I didnt think it would happen to me save me please. example for not giving them care. Most of the scumbags around dont work and smoke alot, they give nothing back they should be made to pay.

 

[Sparx]

i'm not even going to waste giving that comment a reply. Honestly

 

[adoNix]

i dont care about smokers that much, however, when i sometimes hear about 'why' they started i just cant resist laughing: "because my friends smoke too"... i mean wtf.... at least say something like: "because i liked it the first time" so you wont make a total fool out of yourself....

When i hear clueless people like you talking about something they dont know anything about i start laughing. Have you ever considered that people has social needs? a need to be accepted a place. Maybe some of the smokers got rejected other places they tried to fit in, and some smokers said "hey come join us" doesnt it sound tempting after beeing rejected other places? Most people smoke out of some kind of social reason i belive. I may sound like a smoker, but im not. I just know that the stuff i wrote above has happened to several people i know.

Sorry the for bad english, but im sure you got my point.