Slash 50 on an alb class

Kalidur

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Which alb class would suite slash upto 50.

the 2 that appeal to me most are the pally with

50 slash, 35 shield and 48-46 (autotrain) chants
or

50 slash, 45-47 SR (auto train or not) 35 shiled.

being slash specced slam isnt really important to me.
 

Darzil

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Of the two, I'd say the reaver (though 50 flex is very nice).

If a Paladin is going 50 slash, he'd be better off going high two handed instead, in my opinion - a lot more damage, and with only 35 shield, you'll not often be chosen for your shield alone. 2 Handed paladins can be fun. They are much faster at solo levelling than s/s ones (though a bit less desired in groups), and a better damagers in a frontier melee group.

Darzil
 

Kalidur

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I do like the idea of a 2H pally. god this is getting confusing now.

I have a slam specced reaver and its gonna be my only slam tank.

If i were to make 2H it would be a pally over the Arms. I dont really want to make another slam specced tank. one day i prolly will make a 2H pally. i already kinda have a spec in mind (50 2h, 29-34 slash, 46-48 chants, 7 shield rest parry)

I am or was a dedicated caster player till i tried out the reaver and it was a lot of fun, reavers now in leirvik and wont leave till he gets at least rr 2L6 so in the mean time while leirvik's slow i've decided to level up another tank. My biggest problem with the flex reaver is say if i slam and get off 3 indigo's if i dont do serious damage to the enemy it gets too slow to kill them off (or they kill me), i dont have a problem with reactionaries in 1 vs 1, but anything more than that gets tricky. I know this will change once i get laviathan/ML/more RA's.

My interest in slash is thanks to the strong anytime attacks amy/ruby slash combo. Pallies are appealing thanks to there end regen and chants, slash styles do kill the endo, but the reaver with its SR/ML can dish out some serious damage.
 

Jaem-

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I hear Avalonian 2hd Paladins rock. ;)








...Don't take any notice of me btw. :p
 

Darzil

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I've been duoing a 2Handed Pally + PBT 'Bot' in the task instances, and it's an awesome combination. The Pally kills fast, and no downtime to speak of. Ie. rest for end every 2-3 fights, running end chant - that's 10-15 seconds - Currently level 39, twisting end/heal (to conserve end for styles) and a 2 hander with 3 point style end cost reduction on it (100g on CM). Theurg adding haste, damage add and pbt. Not chanting armour or damage, as it didn't seem necessary, and eats up the endurance much faster.

Probably slower than a lone necro, of course <grin>

They kill everything in a task instance in 30 minutes, 40-50 if most of the enemies block and parry.

Darzil
 

Escape

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Kalidur said:
My interest in slash is thanks to the strong anytime attacks amy/ruby slash combo. Pallies are appealing thanks to there end regen and chants, slash styles do kill the endo, but the reaver with its SR/ML can dish out some serious damage.
You could try a merc with end regen pots!
 

eggy

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If we are talking about 50 slash...

Reaver = pointless. Levi is your damage and a waste of utility (although unique!) to use slash.

Paladin = pointless. 50 slash weould gimp your chants and/or shield. You are a defensive char.

Armsman = quite normal to have 50 slash. Not viable in decent RVR groups as such, but a fairly decent all-round char.

Merc = damage, damage and more damage + welcome in RVR groups.

Want damage? Merc.
 

Osri

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eggy said:
If we are talking about 50 slash...

Merc = damage, damage and more damage + welcome in RVR groups.

Want damage? Merc.
:flame: Would still go 39 thrust, 39 slash, 50 dw, rest parry as merc ... Aka wyrd spec :flame:

cyas at cluster :)
 

Kelio

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about your reaver taking to long to finish a enemy off, that will change once you get slam + levi.

slam levi levi levi = dead enemy usually or enemy with very little hp left.

otherwise crush mercs have been fotm for a while.

i wouldnt recommend an armsman, i have tried 50slash/50shieldrest parry and can barley take out red cons. pole specced is easier to solo with but kinda lousy in rvr, so probably better to go 2-H.

as a paladin i would recommend this spec, 44slash 45chants 42 shield 10parry
that way you do decent dmg, have last end+heal chant and slam
 

eggy

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Osri said:
:flame: Would still go 39 thrust, 39 slash, 50 dw, rest parry as merc ... Aka wyrd spec :flame:

cyas at cluster :)
That's fine if you only use DW styles, but there is little point speccing 39 in thrust and slash, having to switch weapons every time you want to change damage types. You won't always be able to use DW styles, and when you're using styles in the thrust or slash list, your damage will be gimped.
 

Keeg

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Allso, u loose alot of WS. Just go 50 slash for ametyst\dia combo (NICE dmg + very high to hit bonus) or crush for the anytime stun.
 

Jobil

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eggy said:
That's fine if you only use DW styles, but there is little point speccing 39 in thrust and slash, having to switch weapons every time you want to change damage types. You won't always be able to use DW styles, and when you're using styles in the thrust or slash list, your damage will be gimped.
i think the point is he runs with both at once and i suppose you can get by only using dw although i wouldnt wanna try. the idea is good, but it like some Tales from the Cross-speccer side before i switch. id probably run crush/thrust tho just for the crush stun thingie
 

Keeg

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Jobil said:
i think the point is he runs with both at once and i suppose you can get by only using dw although i wouldnt wanna try. the idea is good, but it like some Tales from the Cross-speccer side before i switch. id probably run crush/thrust tho just for the crush stun thingie
good luck if u run crush\trust getting off any hits with low ws against a 50shield tank. Instead of cross speccing, id rather lower weapon to 44 and bump parry up to 41. for thouse 1vs1 fights
 
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eggy said:
That's fine if you only use DW styles, but there is little point speccing 39 in thrust and slash, having to switch weapons every time you want to change damage types.
think he's suggesting one wpn slash one thrust
 

Jobil

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Keeg said:
and thats one stupid suggestion. just gimps ur dmg
well that depends if you agree with Wyrdd or not. Wyrdd says WS is bugged and thus the high figure display in your char sheet actually doesn't make a difference in the world. There's a 45 page debate on this on VN so I'm not gonna start on here, but I suggest going there to take a look. just look up "wyrdd" the longest thread you find will be the right one.
and actually the most stupid remark in a debate is the one coming off as fact, listen to those who seek truth, beware of those that have already found it :p
 

Righthandof

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Darzil said:
Of the two, I'd say the reaver (though 50 flex is very nice).

If a Paladin is going 50 slash, he'd be better off going high two handed instead, in my opinion - a lot more damage, and with only 35 shield, you'll not often be chosen for your shield alone. 2 Handed paladins can be fun. They are much faster at solo levelling than s/s ones (though a bit less desired in groups), and a better damagers in a frontier melee group.
aye, 2H pallies are fun, but they dont need 50 slash either. it is said that for a 2Her, slash:twohanded should be 2:3. (slash gives the minimum damage, 2h the maximum, and its random between them)

leveling a 2handed pally is easy imo, ive been 2her until lvl 40, than tried the "uber" spec, the 50 shielded immune-to-melee tank, which is also very much fun - however you may live long, you wont kill any really. above rr5 ive respecced back, and i really enjoy it. but i think you need a few ra's to rvr with a 2her paladin nowdays. you should get aug str 3 if you want to hit through the shielded enemies, mopain3 increases the damage nicely, and ip2 + purge1 is just for surviving.. these are my current ras.
 

Auser

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on the RA front, you should really get Aug Dex/str ect.. which ever helps your WS. I was thinking about trying 2handed on my Pala, and have been for a while.

I like the idea of a 2wpn combo on the merc aswell, and at 39(+11+RR bonus) weapon skill surely you wont loose to much in the way of WS? as i thought 52+ (so 51 in weapon) in a weapon skill didnt really matter as the bonuses was very little?
 

Kalidur

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Jobil said:
well that depends if you agree with Wyrdd or not. Wyrdd says WS is bugged and thus the high figure display in your char sheet actually doesn't make a difference in the world. There's a 45 page debate on this on VN so I'm not gonna start on here, but I suggest going there to take a look. just look up "wyrdd" the longest thread you find will be the right one.
and actually the most stupid remark in a debate is the one coming off as fact, listen to those who seek truth, beware of those that have already found it :p
easier over state side they can transfer characters to a test server to test stuff out, we're not as fortunate.

So what was the conclusion of weapon skill ?? its bogus ?? or only valid to a certain point ??

I've decided on 50 slash, 42 chants, 42 shield (autotrain upto 40) get at least MoB2 than get a bit of MoP. Kinda happy with my reaver as damage dealing tank. The more i play the reaver the more i realise how valuable 42 shield it.

Would have liked a few opinions on the amy/ruby combo, does ruby hit harder and if so how much harder. Whats the end drain on it like, whats it like with a fast or slow weapons, maybe even if anyones tried traitors dagger with a pally (for the offensive proc anyway).
 

Danamyr

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For RVR I cannot think of a single reason to choose a 2H Paladin over a 2H Arms TBH. In my experiance, a 2H Arms > a 2H Paladin any day of the week. Arms have raising stats more appropriate to dealing damage (Pie on a Paladin? Why?!), they are on a higher weapon damage table, they have more WS and more hits.

The cool thing about a 2H Arms is that there's not even a need to auto-train them (if you are an obsessive/compulsive freak like me :)), you can /level and then just aim for 50 2H, 50 Slash and 28 Parry.

If you *must* have a Paladin, then providing you auto-train Slash and Chants you could have this spec:

50 2H
39 Slash (Effective 51 at RR2 +11 from SC)
45 Chants (Last Group Heal Chant)
8 Parry (Left over points)

I can't really see a way to give you 50 2H and 50 Slash without completely gimping Chants.

HTH.
 

Danamyr

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Kalidur said:
So what was the conclusion of weapon skill ?? its bogus ?? or only valid to a certain point ??
It did seem fairly solid when the results were intially announced, but I have since read a number of contridictory posts there.

Basically, the premise that variance remains the same whether your damage type is 50+1 of 39+11+RR2 appears sound. However, what is now being disputed is whether your ability to penetrate an opponents defences remains the same with both specs.

Subsequent testing indicates that your ability to penetrate an opponents defences (and conversely an opponents ability to Slam you) is affected by having higher natural WS (so 50+1).

Further testing will doubtless appear, so I'd just read the boards and make your own judgement.

HTH.
 

Jobil

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what Danamyr said.
atm it very much up to individual choice - i went wyrdd on my infil and feel no difference to-hit, but i love the loads of extra points i could slip into CS.
im a believer in Wyrdd, if you miss more it's on a lvl hardly noticable and as such, in my world the extra spec points more than make up for the lacks as they raise my PA, garrote+AH caps.
one thing tho, say you go 36+14 slash, 50+14 secondary (be it 2-H or DW, CS whatever), if you use styles from the slashline, these styles' dmg will be gimped as you have low spec in them. However as an infil only using CS styles it doesn't matter that you have 36+14 thrust/slash as you'll (in my case anyways) only use CS styles.
Speccing Wyrdd in a main weapon line (slash, thrust, crush) unfortunately means these styles are not a very good choice for main styles. Crush style has some nice stuns and could be used for the stun effect but dmg would be sub-par on the styles.
capice? if not say what part you're unsure of and ill try to explain further.
 

Righthandof

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Danamyr said:
For RVR I cannot think of a single reason to choose a 2H Paladin over a 2H Arms TBH. In my experiance, a 2H Arms > a 2H Paladin any day of the week.
just a few reasons:
-rezz
-heal chant
-damage add
-self base+spec af
-insta interrupt
-with the ml hits, endurance has become a lot more important, and pallies are the best in that(a gimpy blue con end chant from potion wont help you out much)
-6 types of resists
...

also:
-lot better soloer in pve(seen any pveing arms?)
-better soloer in rvr(insta interrupt - very good against casters, permanent sprint - uber against escaping enemies -> just taunt+weaponthrow ml and sprint, you 100% catch them)
-even groups want you more(nobody runs with armsmen any more, if they want pure damage dealer they get a mercenary. but a good damage dealing, endurance regen bringer pala who goes with the assist train is an interesting choice)

but as I've said, you need aug str3+, mopain3+ to deal good damage(and have enough WS).

someone mentioned aug dex also, thats a non-sense, dexterity for a 2hander paladin is only needed for parrying, and the speed of casting rezz :p i wouldnt say thats really important. all twohanded weapons are 100% strength based(except friar staff).
 

Kalidur

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I'm still not completely with ya

1. so say someone with 39+11 slash and someone with base 50 (nothing else added) slash, who's level 29 style will hit harder ?? (amy slash)

the person with 39+11 slash will miss more than the person with 50 slash, however the difference is almost unoticable ? (is this true to your knowledge)

My burning questions really are about the level 50 slash style does it hit that much harder than the level 29 slash style.
 

Damon_D

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Kalidur said:
Which alb class would suite slash upto 50.

the 2 that appeal to me most are the pally with

50 slash, 35 shield and 48-46 (autotrain) chants
or

50 slash, 45-47 SR (auto train or not) 35 shiled.

being slash specced slam isnt really important to me.

Nahhh you need to roll a legendary bushido samurai and use a 30 ssi Hally with 50% DI and then use lightning strike as your main attack :)
 

Kalidur

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Damon_D said:
Nahhh you need to roll a legendary bushido samurai and use a 30 ssi Hally with 50% DI and then use lightning strike as your main attack :)
and we move swiftly on .......
 

Danamyr

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Goodness, where do I start? Right...

Righthandof said:
just a few reasons:
-rezz
-heal chant
-damage add
-self base+spec af
-insta interrupt
-with the ml hits, endurance has become a lot more important, and pallies are the best in that(a gimpy blue con end chant from potion wont help you out much)
-6 types of resists
Rez: Useful in tower seiges I suppose, but otherwise rarely accepted in my experiance. If someone is dead, then a crap 10% rez and no buffs is not going to get your Realm mate excited TBH.

Heal Chant: Utter crap. It doesn't heal for anywhere near enough to be useful in RVR.

Damage Add: Utter crap. It doesn't add anywhere near enough damage for my liking, especially if people in your group have Anger of the Gods.

Self Base+Spec AF: Ok, but not going to help you in modern, caster based RVR.

Insta Interupt: Of no use whatsoever. It may mean you get to live 3 seconds longer, but that's it.

End: This is one of the only good things about a Paladin in RVR over an Arms. That said, Tireless and End potions make a group far less reliant on a Paladin for Endurance. Case in point, many opted groups now run with a Friar instead.

Resists: Yes, a Paladin does have some nifty resists. But you are going to run them when exactly? Before battle you could run the body/matter/cold tri-resist, but not spirit because it doesn't stack with superior Cleric resists. In battle you'll run End and that's that.

also:
-lot better soloer in pve(seen any pveing arms?)
-better soloer in rvr(insta interrupt - very good against casters, permanent sprint - uber against escaping enemies -> just taunt+weaponthrow ml and sprint, you 100% catch them)
-even groups want you more(nobody runs with armsmen any more, if they want pure damage dealer they get a mercenary. but a good damage dealing, endurance regen bringer pala who goes with the assist train is an interesting choice)
PVE: Read my original post, I clearly stated my views were for RVR only. A Paladin is definately a better PVE class, but not as a gimp 2H spec...a PVE Paladin is S&S only IMHO.

Solo RVR: LMAO - you really are clueless. If you seriously think a Paladin is a better RVR class then an Arms you need help - seriously. My Paladin chews dirt constantly when solo - you just do not get (or very infrequently get) 1v1 in NF. If you do, 9 times out of 10 it'll be with a caster who will own you so badly you won't have a clue what hit you. An Arms is a far better solo class due to higher hits and better damage dealing abilities. Oh, and all decent Paladins follow the BM ML path for BG ;)

Groupability: If you think that no-one runs with Arms anymore, then again, you are hugely mistaken. off the top of my head, I know of 3 superb Arms on our server who play frequently; Kagato, Bracken and Jimmythepost. They all get a lot of RPs and are great players (as well as nice people ;)).

I think you need to think about the strengths of the respective classes. A Paladin simply does not have enough spec points to compete with an Arms in a like for like offensive setting. A Paladin is a defensive class - the sooner you grasp this and stop giving people bad advice the better.
 

Danamyr

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Kalidur said:
I'm still not completely with ya

1. so say someone with 39+11 slash and someone with base 50 (nothing else added) slash, who's level 29 style will hit harder ?? (amy slash)

the person with 39+11 slash will miss more than the person with 50 slash, however the difference is almost unoticable ? (is this true to your knowledge)

My burning questions really are about the level 50 slash style does it hit that much harder than the level 29 slash style.
If I understand it correctly, the person with 50+1 Slash should hit harder. But, it is going to be by a very small amount. The reason you can spec 39+11+RR2 is that this will reduce your variance so that a series of successive hits should all result in very similar damage. The 50+1 spec should result in higher damage primarily because of the higher style damage (50 Slash over 39 Slash should result in higher damage from a Lvl 29 style).

I have never had a natural 50 Slash on my Paladin, so I am unable to comment upon how it would affect miss rates. But generally speaking, outright missing isn't the issue. Someone with higher WS should find it easier to negate an opponent's offensive action (if they have lower WS) through the use of blocks, evades and parrys.

Having 50 Slash should allow you to penetrate your opponents defences more regularly, allow Slam to land more often and result in higher style damage...but the total damage won't be a massive amount more than with the effective 51 (39+11+RR2).

HTH.
 

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