Skald -Vs- Bard- Vs - Minstrel??

[-chancer-]

Whats the Pro's & Con's of each class after 1.52.

mainly for the PvP server


cheers

 

[old.Arnor]

skald does more dmg

 

[Uncle Sick(tm)]

Bard: Rez, Mez, fast DD shout... and if you skip Regrowth, even hard hitting.

 

[Meatballs]

bard is about as damaging as a plastic lightsabre.

minstrels have stealth (which is great except versus assasin classes with see hidden) and reasonable damage.

skald has big 2handers shouts so does good damage.

None of them have huge amounts of hp, and their mezzing ability seems inversly proportional to their damage Ie bard instamez ae mezz, minstrel 1500 range long mez sloooow casting ae mezz, skald short trange single instamez (better in some situations than castable but on a timer etc)

 

[Uncle Sick(tm)]

Originally posted by Meatballs
bard is about as damaging as a plastic lightsabre.

And why is that? Because 99% of the bards out there are cookie cutter drumwhores, ignoring weapon spec completely.
If you encountered a l50 armsman with 5 in slash and 2 in polearms... how much damage would he do?

I mostly soloed my bard to 24 and I didn't rely on groups... how many times did I attack a high yellow or low orange and had people gather around to watch "Look! A bard soloing" (and that's a quote, friends).

What's a Battlebard? High music spec for mez, highly specced in Nurture for speed and less downtime and 30ish blades/blunt for damage.

Don't tell me it doesn't work unless you have tried it out yourself.
Love my Battlebard(tm).

 

[Danya]

A few orderings:
weapons: skald (has damage add too), minstrel, bard.
shouts: minstrel, bard, skald (though skald frontloads better than bard which is good in some situations).
mez: bard, minstrel, skald
stun: minstrel
charm: minstrel
snare: skald
healing: bard, minstrel, skald (only bard's is useful though, or minstrel with heal pet)
power regen: bard / minstrel (equal)
end regen: bard
buffs: bard, minstrel (buff pet)
armour: skald/minstrel, bard
hp: bard (I think), skald/minstrel
stealth: minstrel

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by sickofit...
And why is that? Because 99% of the bards out there are cookie cutter drumwhores, ignoring weapon spec completely.
If you encountered a l50 armsman with 5 in slash and 2 in polearms... how much damage would he do?

It's because they are on the naturalist damage table. Minstrels aren't massively damaging and they're at least on the rogue table, bards have it even worse.

 

[Uncle Sick(tm)]

Originally posted by Dannyn

It's because they are on the naturalist damage table. Minstrels aren't massively damaging and they're at least on the rogue table, bards have it even worse.

A valid point, of course. But so are Wardens - who make quite a good addition in any RvR group (not just because of PBT).

Bards will never be able to take on a "real" tank - but casters, leatherclowns and the miscellaneous lower level tank.
I personally think by being just the proverbial drumwhore, you castrate your bard.

Just like a stealther you are basically able to pick your targets.
Enemy group, ae mez, take out their caster while the others watch - snotty emote - and off you go at mach4.
Zoom and Boom

 

[Ottar]

> "Look! A bard soloing" (and that's a quote, friends).

PvE solo, bard could well be better than a skald. Longer killtime but lower downtime. If compared in 1v1 combat, skald would prevail. Lowest weapon spec a skald will have is 44. Some templates go as high as 50. 30 something in weapon does not make a melee character. Bard is not a tank. Then again, according to Mythic, neither is skald.

Utility wise, skald is inferior where both mistrell and bard shine with their power and endurance chants.

Ottar

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by sickofit...
Just like a stealther you are basically able to pick your targets.
Enemy group, ae mez, take out their caster while the others watch - snotty emote - and off you go at mach4.
Zoom and Boom

AE mez, fighter purges, bard gets a beating. Doh!
AE mez, cleric purges, bard gets a beating. Doh!
AE mez, anyone resists, bard gets a beating. Doh!

Not really the same thing. Also it doesn't stop people spotting you and chasing you down, stealth does.

 

[Danya]

Oh on the pve soloing, minstrel is arguably best - can take out orange and red solo mobs or small groups of yellow / blue.

 

[Uncle Sick(tm)]

Originally posted by Ottar
> "Look! A bard soloing" (and that's a quote, friends).

PvE solo, bard could well be better than a skald. Longer killtime but lower downtime. If compared in 1v1 combat, skald would prevail. Lowest weapon spec a skald will have is 44. Some templates go as high as 50. 30 something in weapon does not make a melee character. Bard is not a tank. Then again, according to Mythic, neither is skald.

Utility wise, skald is inferior where both mistrell and bard shine with their power and endurance chants.

Ottar

Agreed again. Skalds are tough bastids - if you want to put it like that: true BattleBards. If Midgard wasn't such a dreary place, I would go and level my dwarf skald on Excalibur again (I need 100% green grass coverage)

It's all about your choice of targets in the end. I just think speed, fantastic cc abilities and a good weapon spec will make bards an interesting class finally.
... and *gasp* be able to RvR solo

 

[Uncle Sick(tm)]

Originally posted by Dannyn

AE mez, fighter purges, bard gets a beating. Doh!
AE mez, cleric purges, bard gets a beating. Doh!
AE mez, anyone resists, bard gets a beating. Doh!

Not really the same thing. Also it doesn't stop people spotting you and chasing you down, stealth does.

Hehe - true again and I am sure it will happen... but that is part of the fun

 

[-chancer-]

im sure i heard that minstrel's are geting nerfed in a upcoming patch?

this true?

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by -chancer-
im sure i heard that minstrel's are geting nerfed in a upcoming patch?

this true?

Already have been.

 

[Flimgoblin]

can people post their weaponskills as battlebards, drumbards, skalds and minstrels?

that'll tell you how much damage you do

they might all be on the 'hybrid' table - i.e. about 35% off of the pure tanks...

paladins are on that table too... along with wardens, friars, thanes.

 

[Uncle Sick(tm)]

Alright - here goes my Battlebard(tm) spec at l24:
Nurture 13
Music 18 (24 with items)
Blades 18 (22 with the Sword of the Keeper. Fireblade is a nice, powerful style. I chose Blades because I play a celt and have a basic qui of 70).

I can solo low orange mobs weak against slash due to the high speed of my weapon and self buffs. If I stop playing end song shortly before I attack the mob, I get about 3-4 styles in "for free".

DD shout does about 60-75 damage to yellow mobs every 10 seconds. Not sure about melee (40ish-60ish, I think).

Might post and endgame template later.

 

[old.job]

I've dueled a Skald with my Bard and I was hitting him much harder than he was me, buttt... he just insta-stuned me healed and carried on, it took 2 mins but he wore me down

Like Sick I soloed to around 19, but then stopped speccing blades, cos like who wants a fighting bard?
You won't get groups without high end/mana so life will be difficult
soloin greens the rest of your days.

 

[Uncle Sick(tm)]

Hehe.. after the BG's, I will take a little break with speccing Blades and go for nurture (end, mana, speedsong.. for groups and my own soloing benefits).

Actually, I grouped and will group with the 'outcasts't ie Rangers, Shades mostly.
a) they are happy about it and that makes Animul(tm) feel good.
b) they do incredible ammounts of damage - especially shades. Much rather have a well played shade covering my back, than a numpty tank who gives me: "bards can't fight" crud and gets me killed.
c) levelling stealthers benefits the realm.

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by old.job
I've dueled a Skald with my Bard and I was hitting him much harder than he was me, buttt... he just insta-stuned me healed and carried on, it took 2 mins but he wore me down

It took a skald that long to kill you? Odd... I can typically kill a bard in about 30 seconds (dd, dd, mez, wait 15 secs, dd, dd, stun, melee for 15 secs, dd, dd - bard is usually pretty dead by now ). Skalds I try to avoid fighting.

 

[old.LandShark]

Can't take skalds anymore. Not with IP;
I engage skald
we both run out of end; I use IP, he uses IP.
We twat each other out of end for a while; his dmg chant is up and he's using a bloody great 2hander, i'm just swinging away hopelessly with my dmg determined by my tertiary stat ;p

Basically, my thinking is this: if you're going to solo PK people, be a skald. Nothing in such a situation that skald can't do better than a bard.
If you don't have a guild to rely on and intend to group with strangers an awful lot on the way to 50, then play a bard or minstrel because, if Euro-PvP turns out anything like Andred, there are going to be 2 skalds per square foot and you'll permanently be told "sorry, already got one" when you ask for a group.
Minstrel... Pah. Minstrel stealth isn't that badly off on Andred, purely because so many assassins just don't bother with See Hidden. Nonetheless it doesn't do either of the other class's tricks very well. Stealth or no stealth, a skald is far better at getting away than a low-specced stealth minstrel, and also far better at killing people quickly.
*shrug*
Sorry, that was a bit rambling

 

[Danya]

Without pet I've only ever killed one skald. And he used axe (I was actually hitting harder than his axe+dmg add ). Hammer skalds in straight melee just batter me. With pet I can solo most classes (if the pet is good ).

 

[Uncle Sick(tm)]

Oh... forgot to mention: BattleBard(tm) gets MoP and IP later on.

Anyway... just returned from the BG's - ytm Shadow Blade on half health thought a bard might be yummy.. 2 shouts and one hit later - dead SB.

Also got myself a minstrel.

 

[old.Demerzel]

soloing with a bard is like dropping the soap

 

[Uncle Sick(tm)]

Originally posted by old.Demerzel
soloing with a bard is like dropping the soap

I would like to counter your argument with a hearty yawn.

 

[Shike]

kudos to you Sick for playing with shades and rangers.. not all do that. And you are right, supporting those 2 classes, especially shades will strengthen the realm as a whole.

I mostly solo my ranger and group sometimes... its not that bad for me really, but shades i have talked to really have a hell with gettin groups, and thats really sad imo. they do good damage and work well as secondary tanks/damagedealers imo.

One big problem i have seen is with Druids... i dont know how many times i have seen druids thinking.. I am a tank, i can beat this purple mob down, and TOTALLY forget to heal or heal way to late.. and people die, next comment is, no worries i rez you. I rather play with wardens, they seem to understand what the concept of healing is at least. This is not a flame to all druids out there ofc, i have seen exceptions, but generally speaking, I know I am right. (at least at the sub-30lvls)

Another thing, Mentas are casters, not healers, if there are 2 wardens and 1 menta in a grp, often the menta goes on healingduty, this i dont understand, mentas heals are mostly utter crap and not half as good as wardens/druids, and still, they are set on healing, instead of DoT, Nuke and so on. This is insane imo.

/em rantmode off

and why in hell did I post this here in this thread

 

[PJS]

ment has better heals than a warden

 

[-chancer-]

whats happened to the skald's 2nd dd ??? it seems to have disapeared from the catacomb's site charecter builder

 

[bf_kate]

I can kinda see the point of a battle bard on a normal server. You want to play Hiberia, you want to play a speed class and you want to do some damage...fine. But I don't see the point of a battle bard on a pvp server. Why not just play a skald or minstrel? Maybe to be different? Good luck

 

[Flimgoblin]

who wants to go the uberest most powerful character anyway?

tempted to try merc on pvp *mooooes*