Sigh @ Albs

[Shike]

Catacombs would be interesting IF :-
Alb class with instant ranged AOE crowd control
Hib a new stealther class
Mid a new stealther class

wtf.. no thanks tbh no bloody stealthers thank you, already too many of them as it already is.

I dunno, im kinda scared of Catacombs.. if they make another savage i'll cry rivers of tears, unless hibs get it ofc!! ^^

 

[haarewin]

i have been runing in Erodafiras pbaoe groups this last week, and my experiense is that we are lacking the utilety that mids and hibs has.

no.1, is the insta mezz, and chain wearing mezzer that both mid and hib has. The albion mezzer dies to fast, and has no insta mezz, so we HAFTO spot the enemy first, to even stand a small chance of killing them withoute the suport from any outesiders (ppl not in the group)

no.2 The group purge that hibernia has, then it wont matter if we spot them first, they group purge, and set theyr casting pets on the healers, then go in a pbaoe.. not much we can do againts hib pboae groups tbh, if they know what they are doing, we dont stand a chance.

no.3, The aoe stun that midgard has. the ones in the alb group that has purge, has purged the insta mezz, and then gets stunned, usualy in a nice small box for the SMs to kill us in.

no.4, the ice wizzys lack of utilety. the main part beeing that they dont have pets, like the other pbaoe classes (exept eldys, but chanters are mainly used in hib groups) has

no5. the lack of sorcs in albion atm, prolly becouse of point no.1

no.6, The lack of healing power, Hibernia groups runs with druids and bards(speed song, mana song, end song, CC, aoe root, pet, group purge (RA abilety)), midgard groups runs with healers and shammys (CC, good buffs, end reg, aoe root, dot, healing etc etc etc), and alb groups runs with clerics (healing, and the odd stunn that last for a few secs, and BoF)



And at the point of capturing a hib keep with defenders.. its imposible unless you have 70++++++ albs. The fields, the pbaoe, the SHROOMS!

sorcs have the extra range on their mez for a reason, to make up for the fact that their realm doesnt have insta mez. this is the most recycled whine from albs, insta mez is shite and is only used in rare situations. purging insta mez is a waste of time tbh, it only lasts like 5seconds anyway on someone with decent resists.
also, bards cant wear chain/scale fyi, and rarely have a chance to heal, and when they do, its for like 20 or something crappy, as they have to spec low reg to get everything else. i rarely see a druid that has time to AOE root unless their group is winning the battle anyway.
having played all 3 primary mezzers (taken, sorc has only been at lower level - and on camlann), i can easily say i prefer playing sorc for mezzing. though if you play with a good minstrel (one that stuns / single mezzes enemies main cc) it makes life a lot easier.

 

[Dorin]

ae-stun : true
grp-purge: true
instant CC: its overrated imo

 

[Sycho]

sorcs have the extra range on their mez for a reason, to make up for the fact that their realm doesnt have insta mez. this is the most recycled whine from albs, insta mez is shite and is only used in rare situations. purging insta mez is a waste of time tbh, it only lasts like 5seconds anyway on someone with decent resists.
also, bards cant wear chain/scale fyi, and rarely have a chance to heal, and when they do, its for like 20 or something crappy, as they have to spec low reg to get everything else. i rarely see a druid that has time to AOE root unless their group is winning the battle anyway.
having played all 3 primary mezzers (taken, sorc has only been at lower level - and on camlann), i can easily say i prefer playing sorc for mezzing. though if you play with a good minstrel (one that stuns / single mezzes enemies main cc) it makes life a lot easier.

Instant mezz is NOT shite for a mid pbaoe group.(ok it's not brilliant but it can have it's effectiveness in certain situations)

3-4 pbaoes quickly>nothing at all.

Like yesterday when running up a hill mids meet us head on, bang instant mezz and pbaoe=quite a lot of damage done if the sm's have ToA equipment.

But yes sorc is best if you do not run uphill xE , you have advantage otherwise.

 

[Platina]

Because its not as powerful.
- No instant-ae-stun
- No instant ae-mezz
- leaking one healer and one support healer = about 40% less heal power
- leaking 3 perfect rezzes
- leaking secondary CC
- ice wizzies leaking pets and utilities
- group leaking instant ae-desease and ae-desease
- difference in average time until death between pac-healer and sorc ^^

did i miss anything?

ZzZzZ

 

[Eroda]

Lets see...

of the 3 healers 1 will be 44 pac, 31 mend so the overpowered insta ae stun you are referring to is a lvl 38 spell with a 150 radius and a 9sec duration determination and resists not taken into account. The insta ae mezz is a lvl 36 spell so resisted even more often. Radius 150, duration 26 secs. - Using these means handing out free immunity in most cases.

Secondary cc... Lets see, you got mezz from sorc and mincer (probably even on different immunity timers) and you got root. - Advantage is yours here with 2 ae mezzing classes.

Leaking 3 perfect rezzes... Bunker of Faith, Faith Heal, SoS - do I have to say more?

Durability of the Sorc... give or take 1 sec compared to a healer. If I get slam'd and then ma'd I am dead within 2-3 seconds. Same with pbae. Chain - cloth, there is no difference when you cant escape a damage peak. But when they get to slam and MA/pbae me then its my fault and not bad class design.

Insta disease for a pbae group... what is it good for?

Ice wizzies leaking pets and utility... Excuse my limited knowledge about albion classes but:
Ice Wiz needs to spec 48 ice while supp SM has to spec 49 supp for the last pbae so more points for the 2nd spec. Ice Wiz has an _ae_dd with debuff in the same spec line as the pbae and is cappable of ae-debuffing his own damage.


The only real point you made is the heal power of a mid group being superior. But do not forget that we give up a damage dealer spot for that!

The combination of aoe mez and aoe stun (both castable and insta) will always make a mid pbaoe group more deadly imo when it is used correctly.

 

[Steveh]

Steveh, sorry mate but thats utter bollocks, for the following reasons:

Ice Wizz pbae = Mana Eld pbae or thereabouts, hibs do not run with energy debuffers (void elds) for our pbae. The only difference between our pbae and your pbae = current 20% pow relics, if you get hit for 700-800, you can thank Wild Power (Chance to crit RA if you didnt know), not debuffs.

Alb caster groups are viable, you just have to experiment and see what works instead of being afraid of change, take Ilum's Outcast cabby/sorc group as an example, they play well and are a tough group to fight, even though a fair few of them are low rr, much kudos to them. We've been doing full on caster groups a fair while longer out of necessity, so in principle we know what works and what doesn't, mebbe its time you try and figure that out too instead of complaining about it?

Jara.

how many enchant cleric runing with the groups who can do purple resists ? 0 .

 

[Equendil]

Secondary cc... Lets see, you got mezz from sorc and mincer (probably even on different immunity timers) and you got root. - Advantage is yours here with 2 ae mezzing classes.

[/B]

The two other healers and the shaman are specced full AFK or something ?

Durability of the Sorc... give or take 1 sec compared to a healer. If I get slam'd and then ma'd I am dead within 2-3 seconds. Same with pbae. Chain - cloth, there is no difference when you cant escape a damage peak. But when they get to slam and MA/pbae me then its my fault and not bad class design.

Love it when people are trying to make it sound like chain and 2000 hit points
is not really better than cloth and 1500 hits.

 

[Araudry]

What does it take to make you defend your realm?


zzzZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZ

.................................wrong forum?
go back to zergalibur
Wiro - lvl 51 Infiltrator
<Guardians of Light> Albion / Excalibur

 

[Araudry]

Another pain in the azz gone if u leave.

And Araudry, can u pls retire also, k thx.

camping mpk waiting for troll bd to come out atm..
and with aoe mezz (ML9) it s working very nice on bd i can solo a bd without pa/bs and even disease no need anymore :>
anyways who the fuck are u to say i have to retire ?

 

[nuky]

camping mpk waiting for troll bd to come out atm..
and with aoe mezz (ML9) it s working very nice on bd i can solo a bd without pa/bs and even disease no need anymore :>
anyways who the fuck are u to say i have to retire ?

wtf u need ur ml 9 aoe mez thingy for when ur always running with kklas?

 

[Adorith]

Lets see...

of the 3 healers 1 will be 44 pac, 31 mend so the overpowered insta ae stun you are referring to is a lvl 38 spell with a 150 radius and a 9sec duration determination and resists not taken into account. The insta ae mezz is a lvl 36 spell so resisted even more often. Radius 150, duration 26 secs. - Using these means handing out free immunity in most cases.

Lets see indeed.
The thing about mid CC in pbae groups is...instant mez -> casted aoe stun -> plenty of time to pbae the alb wizzies. 9 sec duration without resists and determination? Who cares? How many determination classes are in an alb castergroup anyways? You can count them with the fingers on your head. Instamez albs when you spot them, run in with SMs, ae stun, pbae. Sure, some may live but they'll be lonely and hurt.

Secondary cc... Lets see, you got mezz from sorc and mincer (probably even on different immunity timers) and you got root. - Advantage is yours here with 2 ae mezzing classes.

Albs spot mids first, sorc mez forthewin. Mid CCer purges, instamezzes albs, starts demez-cascade (mids will have plenty of demezzers with all the healers and SMs). Albs and mids will come out of mez at about the same time, both with timers. Albs won mez, took one purge for mids to even it out.

Leaking 3 perfect rezzes... Bunker of Faith, Faith Heal, SoS - do I have to say more?

While SoS is indeed very useful, BoF helps against the pbae just how? And a paladin for FH isn't worth very much when you consider that mids have an extra healer + shammy. Notice also how pallys dont have det to get out of the pbae box.

Durability of the Sorc... give or take 1 sec compared to a healer. If I get slam'd and then ma'd I am dead within 2-3 seconds. Same with pbae. Chain - cloth, there is no difference when you cant escape a damage peak. But when they get to slam and MA/pbae me then its my fault and not bad class design.

Notice however the ease of how albs CCer is easily spotted (cloth+pet) compared to mids (one out of three healers, one out of four chainwearing seers).

Insta disease for a pbae group... what is it good for?

Slowing down people and healing as usual? It's alot better than not having it don't you think? Not as if it takes ages to cast.

Ice wizzies leaking pets and utility... Excuse my limited knowledge about albion classes but:
Ice Wiz needs to spec 48 ice while supp SM has to spec 49 supp for the last pbae so more points for the 2nd spec. Ice Wiz has an _ae_dd with debuff in the same spec line as the pbae and is cappable of ae-debuffing his own damage.

Ah, allow me to introduce you to the real vice of the wizard:
Secondary spec is useless.
The only thing you can get from secondary spec is lvl 19 gtae for < 20 dmg.
Oh and a rootbreaking dmg shield for 1.9 dps.
To quote the wizard TL report: the main issue with wizard is that secondary spec is nothing but redundant damage. Who needs a nuke that does hundreds less damage than your specced one?

Also, the debuff is 10%, which isn't very much at all. It also has a relatively high casttime, paired with multiple healer AE amnesia spam makes it less than optimal.

The only real point you made is the heal power of a mid group being superior. But do not forget that we give up a damage dealer spot for that!

That may be, however you more than make up for it with superios classes.

 

[Oro]

I'm not going to talk about open field RvR, just touch on the original subject of the thread.

Have been on a few sieges now with Albs in various guises. Albs actually do quite well up to a point but lack the ability to finish off and its got nothing to do with MLs or RAs or group setup directly, but just the will to work with what you've got as a big team.

What Albs have always done in the past is try to steamroller keeps - use enough warm bodies to swamp the enemy in a final rush. I think its just seeping through that this can't be done any more. (I used to watch this tactic time and again as a Mid).

Typically you get a committee trying to lead, all not quite agreeing and lots of armchair commanders making snide remarks at the 'committee' instead of knuckling down and doing their best. Its a shame really but thats what I see really hampering Albs in sieges. Also a bit of a lack of willingness to prep for a siege, most people just join the BG with the char they want RP for and go for it.

There are lots of ways to take keeps, even when defended, just needs enough people to work as a proper siege team with a bit of prep and planning.

It will get better though, have already seen some improvements

 

[Voltage]

If ice wiz groups are really that good

and hibs are lacking in people to fight against

why not reroll as an alb ice wiz group m8s?

 

[Jarakin]

how many enchant cleric runing with the groups who can do purple resists ? 0 .

How many nurture druids running with the groups do you see with purple cold resists? 0. You based your argument around hib pbae in general being > alb pbae due to debuffs and somesuch, which was nonsense. Hib pbae groups work better than alb pbae groups purely due to the other utilities of said casters and other group members, nothing to do with the pbae itself which is constant (neglecting relics).

You totally ignored the point about the viability of alb mage groups, reason i'm sure is that you don't want to stop playing your high RR tank which is fair enough, but don't whine as if you don't have any other options for group viability as you clearly do.

 

[Corran]

Ok so we having this old arguement again

CC Sorc > all

insta CC = shite but can be life saver

mid/hib > alb for utility most the time.

......

Group purge. overpowered as fuck. HOWEVER. a good sorc gets round it still as hibs learning from meeting some people. You mezz them. they GP. you know they going to gp so you should already have selected the person in middle of them and spread from the group and casted root. Sure they can cast after but they are inturupted for 3seconds, they cant move from spot and they have to rely on insta mezz to get your group.

In spliting away from them to make the root this means they need to use 2 mezz's, most likely be 2 insta's. On a sorc with 40% reduction self buff this is not long. Even eclipse etc have to do this. if they dont insta they know they in bother as they cant do shit. If they moc, you cast amnesia for the duration, it breaks mezz yes, but as that gp'd and you only rooted them it dont matter. It aoe so you will be removing all casters and healers grouped together. What choice left? move apart. This takes time and they aint casting. So you aint dying.

So at this point you have. Mezzed, they gp. You root. They insta. they take out a guy or two mayhap however it less then what it would be if casted mezz. You root spam, they cant cast. They moc, you amnesia. moc wasted. Oh look immunity is up, you cast mezz. Now, this is where it gets interesting. You know there a 95% chance they got 1 GP up, but 2? well that is rare, and that is where the fight can turn in your favour clearly. As long as you kept bard under control to prevent him mezzing you first again, then really you shouldnt have a problem from here.

Ok yes. . . This takes alot of work. You got to be on your toes and aware but it is the way round GP and MoC and hell even quickcast if you amnesia early on to prevent the casted stun. But that optional

........

Bof, overpowered as fuck when it comes to melee, "oh look i hit for 15 with my 2handed weapon!!!!!!!"

SoS, well not much use for casters except to run away.. but definately overpowered in situations. especially if aggressively use

..........

insta mezz + aoe casted stun in pbaoe mid group = LOL as your fucked from the word go. They wiped out outcast group in 3 seconds flat like this due to both hitting mg at same time and they using it like that.

.....

Really really could go on. each realm got something the others havent that gives them the advantage.
But really dont argue that insta mezz = greater cc then a sorc as in many situations it not and also. qc mezz > insta. Ask puppet healer about yesterday afternoon with xxcaliber and friends in emain. Their bard made the mistake of insta mezzing our group when we were rebuffing. Yet due to the sucky duration we managed to win that fight as tank breaks mezz on sorc, sorc qc mezz support before dying (i die alot like this as better to take the fall and aid the time then to cause us all to die by running, well thats my excuse for my constant dying ) before the tank assist train killed us. Insta aint worth the time of day unless they got no choice when it can buy them needed seconds. Battle winner on hibs? no. Battle winner for mids? possibly depending on group setup if used with casted aoe stun.

Realm balance is a dream. Believe me come frontiers hibs will have a very very hard time in rvr due to needing to get used to no GP. each will have to think about getting a high level of purge. As really sos aint great for a caster if your mezzed

edit : shit i rambled on there.. sowwy

 

[xxManiacxx]

First time instant mezz and healer not paying attention.(well probably half the group actually xD )

Second time fucked up by chasing a few other mids so only half group was there...everyone makes mistakes though so it doesn't bother me.Meet you head on it be a tough fight i assure you.

It makes a change xxcalibur eh?

Hehe just messing with ya

We will be online from 18.30 this evening so I hope we will see u there. And slap Fokias for running away and making us chase him

 

[Steveh]

How many nurture druids running with the groups do you see with purple cold resists? 0. You based your argument around hib pbae in general being > alb pbae due to debuffs and somesuch, which was nonsense. Hib pbae groups work better than alb pbae groups purely due to the other utilities of said casters and other group members, nothing to do with the pbae itself which is constant (neglecting relics).

You totally ignored the point about the viability of alb mage groups, reason i'm sure is that you don't want to stop playing your high RR tank which is fair enough, but don't whine as if you don't have any other options for group viability as you clearly do.

try a wizard first and after we can talk

Alb mage group is a Outcast setup.thats work.they have many util and they can use it.

 

[Jarakin]

Alb mage group is a Outcast setup.thats work.they have many util and they can use it.

Very astute observation there steveh me ol' chum! As their group is testament to, don't be afraid to experiment with group setups!

 

[Azurat]

Pbaoe can be nice in keep fights, but it´s gtaoe that´s the main thing, if you just have patience. No need to charge a hib group in a tower when you can just put a gtaoe and grind em down slowly.

One nice thing about mid pbaoe and alb pbaoe is that it can kill hib pbaoe just cause hibs can´t amnesia spam. But it mostly requires that wizards/sorc or healers/sm having moc and purge up.

 

[Oro]

Pbaoe can be nice in keep fights, but it´s gtaoe that´s the main thing, if you just have patience.

That's the ticket.

Alb has no GTAE on wizzies as I'm reliably informed Earth Wizzies make you want to cry if you play one.

So that means trebs and a willingness to pack them. Peeps often also forget wards take damage too if you keep at it.

 

[Wiro]

Such offtopic spam xdd

 

[Killerbee]

Because its not as powerful.
- No instant-ae-stun
- No instant ae-mezz
- leaking one healer and one support healer = about 40% less heal power
- leaking 3 perfect rezzes
- leaking secondary CC
- ice wizzies leaking pets and utilities
- group leaking instant ae-desease and ae-desease
- difference in average time until death between pac-healer and sorc ^^

did i miss anything?

Only 1 FZ, not 4 ^^

 

[Edlina]

so wheres your end regen?

It's in pots ofc.

If you really really really really think you need end regain from a paladin ditch the mincer and take a pala instead...

 

[Puppet]

That's the ticket.

Alb has no GTAE on wizzies as I'm reliably informed Earth Wizzies make you want to cry if you play one.

So that means trebs and a willingness to pack them. Peeps often also forget wards take damage too if you keep at it.

Every wizard should have GTAE. Doesnt matter what spec the wizard is; he should have GTAE.

If he doesnt have GTAE.... well blame the wizard; not the game.

 

[Adorith]

Every wizard should have GTAE. Doesnt matter what spec the wizard is; he should have GTAE.

If he doesnt have GTAE.... well blame the wizard; not the game.

How many wizards do you need that does <20 dmg every 6 seconds to root out high RR hib groups from lordroom?

 

[Sycho]

How many wizards do you need that does <20 dmg every 6 seconds to root out high RR hib groups from lordroom?

Remember when you play alb you get an unfinished version of something always. xD

 

[Ovi1]

How many wizards do you need that does <20 dmg every 6 seconds to root out high RR hib groups from lordroom?

Hmmm, I thought discussion had moved on to Utility rather than damage?

I would hazard a guess that "every Wizard having GTAoE" was refering to every wizard having the ability to interrupt around a GT, not do do damage around the GT, afterall you have the PB for damage?

 

[Dorin]

How many wizards do you need that does <20 dmg every 6 seconds to root out high RR hib groups from lordroom?

puppet was refering to something called "interrupt"

olala

 

[Brolundar]

[/B]

The two other healers and the shaman are specced full AFK or something ?



Love it when people are trying to make it sound like chain and 2000 hit points
is not really better than cloth and 1500 hits.

Sorry, but a spell on 5 sec. casttime count as secondary cc?
A mincer standing still for such a long time, is a dead mincer.
And I wont count number of interrupts hitting him if he tries anyway.