Sidi raid 23rd August

[Falcor]

Saturday 1pm English time

(sticky please when other one is over ofc)

Raid rules:
-Anon off please.
-Im increasingly fed up with ppl messing about in sidi raids, so a new punishment system, if u do something wrong u get -10 in lotto this means that if some1 does something wrong they can only do /random 90, keep doing things wrong and the number gets lower. This will apply some discipline, but not harm people who make an honest mistake or suffer a lag pull.
-Going afk for long periods of time will be penalised
-Patience is needed. Certain parts of the raid are simple zergs. Others require a little more time and technique, the more patient and cooperative people are, the quicker these bits go.
-Drops should be given to me as soon as they are dropped. Sooner I have them, sooner raid progresses. I am SICK of ppl not handing in drops because they are afk or prancing about wielding or apssing round stats, with over 100 items in loot now, if each person takes 5mins to hand in each bit (which is has been often) that is a hell of a long time, and this is why ppl are slow, if ppl are slow giving in drops i will penalise them with -10 in lotto
-I reserve right to keep warlord sword(1h) should one drop.(tho it may not exhist, and if stats r not as expected i dont want)
-I expect people to do as told precisely, simply to avoid unecessary dificulty and possible wipes.

Lotto rules:

-Lotto for respec stones will be first, if u roll for a stone u cannot roll for other drops, this is so all stones get used and not sold on.
-One item per person, need before greed, expect to see no one selling stuff straight after raid on trade forums....
-No lottoing for items if u already have one from lotto, exlcuding rings bracers and dual wield weapons.
-Where possible items will go to ppl who have most suitable spec.
-Min lvl for entering lotto is 50.
-Players may only bid on an item if their class and spec can use it. There is one exception to this rule, and that is Sidi Armour. Since the goal is to gather a full suit of this armour. Having said this, armour which is not part of the full Sidi suit depends on spec.
-If you desperately(MUST BE DESPERATE NEED, A LOT OF PPL NOW LEAVING CUZ THEY CANT BE BOTHERED TO STAY FOR ONE ITEM, NOT AN EXCUSE) need to leave before the lotto, you may get someone else to represent you in the lotto. However, he will only be able to bid on drops which dropped before you left, and you must pm me when you leave saying who shall be bidding for you.
-U may only lotto for weapon dye IF u have a Sidi weapon
-Group friendly classes may bring their group friendly class and roll for a lvl50 alt. Current list of group friendly classes....
-Clerics(ABOVE ALL)
-Ice wizards
-Theurgists(pet spam important)
-Necromancers
-Paladins
From now im relaxing rules on alts they still must be 50, however, i would much prefer an armsman over an infil for example, so if u can bring a more useful class u can lotto for the alt(think most ppl know what classes r not much use)
If ppl wish to do this they MUST pm and tell me BEFORE we enter SIDI
-Apocalypse weapons, will now be realm rank lotto dependant, this is because of there effectiveness especially in rvr due to there speed, so now these will be lootoed by rr5+ ppl, this only applies to apoc weapons all others with be only limited to lvl 50, this is one or non weapons per raid.

DO NOT BIND AT GWYNTELL LOTTO WILL BE AT GOTHWAITE HARBOUR

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Falcor

-Apocalypse weapons, will now be realm rank lotto dependant, this is because of there effectiveness especially in rvr due to there speed, so now these will be lootoed by rr5+ ppl, this only applies to apoc weapons all others with be only limited to lvl 50(discuss - think its a fair compromise this is only one or non weapons a raid)

this clause still in? is it definite? or are you making it up whenever you get to the lotto?

 

[Falcor]

apoc bugged so who knows

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Falcor
apoc bugged so who knows

maybe it's just me, and I'm not trying to be negative or whatever - but normally I prefer knowing what the lotto rules are before the raid starts.


That way the old adage of "if you don't like the rules don't go" works ... if they're not decided till the monsters die then you can't really go back in time and not turn up?

 

[Falcor]

maybe when ppl care enough to do as i say and stop these raids being pretty damn awful for me, then maybe ill care

and yes im not very happy..

 

[Molten Lava]

Raid today

Was happy that on todays raid Apoc was bugged....I asked in chat to make clear BEFORE we start kicking Apoc what the rule about Apoc-drops was.....only thing I got was "ffs thats not important" "lets kill him first" and "shut up n00b"

I think people would like to know BEFORE the raid if Apoc-weapons are RR5 only so they can decide if its worth comming on the raid or not...in stead of having 150 people kill apoc and after that tell them "sorry guys we are only lottoing this with the l33t kids"

You just have to say one word Falcor, that cant be too hard:

are Apoc-weapons RR5+ only?
1. Yes
2. No

 

[Skaven]

Well tbh for what its worth (nowt) I won't be coming on another raid till this issues sorted.

 

[thorwyntf]

Well, first off, the question if apoc weapon drops are to be lottoed amongst rr5+ only doesn´t mke a Sidi Raid "worth coming" or not. There are plenty of quality drops that go to everybody who´s coming regardless of rr and I can´t believe that the only reason for someone to join a Sidi raid is one apoc drop. That doesn´t mean that I like the rule, I still think it sucks, but it´s something I can live with and I´m sure anybody else can too.

The rule in question only convers one drop. This rule of rr5 only for apoc is debatable. Both sides have brought their arguments and you can either agree or not. When it´s a rule, you can either accept it ot stay out.

However, it´s only fair to tell people in advance if the rule will be in effect or not. A lot of people on the raid stated, that they wouldn´t kill apoc if this rule is in effect. One can like that or not, it´s their right to do that as a passive, legal form of protest: If rr5+ people want that drop, they have to kill apoc. Any by not telling people if the rules is in effect or not, everybody just feels tricked and cheated.

 

[old.Ramas]

Couple of points...

1) Still don't like the rr5 rule, but as previously said, it doesn't really affect me. The only thing making me think about not coming is that the raids have been so successful that they are attracting too many people for a cleric to have any reasonable chance at a drop.

2) Apoc bugs. Never in the history of daoc have apoc room bugs been fixed by everyone saying 'yes' or by running about the dungeon, or by staying back on the stairs while someone tries. It's either going to produce blue writing straight away, or it's bugged. I'd suggest less tolerance to strange theories, and more getting straight on with the lotto if Fames refuses to play with us.

3) Catapults. Just say no. Note from Sanya...

Siege damage is melee damage, and can be used. Using a siege weapon on a monster will also build ag and put you on the critter’s hate list. However, you do not get experience or drops from a creature that was killed with siege weapons.

So whomever decided it would be clever to build a trebuchet in the apoc room, just don't. NPC drops and xp got nerfed a whole way back when someone worked out there was a very dangerous but rapid way to get through the first 15 levels using trebs on salisbury plains.

 

[adari]

I would personally not agree with this rule, every1 helps in killing this mob so I don't see why some should be rewarded better for doing the same. It's not the drop that matters it's the effort people put in getting it, hence i reckon every1 should have a chance on getting it.

 

[Falcor]

and thus the debate starts again, as i said, when ppl start to act more mature, stop taking advantage of me doing these raids, sticking afk, not listening deliberatly making things dificult for me, whining on here, and tbh im sick of it, im doing a hell of a lot of work and all a lot of u can do is critisize, i dont think thats fair, there r v few ppl who actually, grats m8 nice raid etc etc, i listened to everyones moands after every raid with good nature for hours, then the flames pms for the days after, now ive had ENOUGH when ppl show me a little respect, when ppl realise i havto make EVERYONE happy, this includes rr5+ and the others, and that after ive asked repeatedly for ppl not to bring up the topic till after raid IF apoc dies IF he drops a weapon, then maybe i will care enough to give an answer, its give and take, atm its me giving and u taking....

If u going to go to sidi sit down and watch us get killed by apoc over one measly weapon then tbh i dont want ppl like that to come, to watch realm m8s die is below the low. And also to keep the other 5 apoc drops from the people on the raid who needs them

If some of u, all u can do is spend ure time complaining about one weapon tbh it makes me sick how much effort it put in to make the raids fun, for ALL and short...like it or not, i said it would be decided after the raid, if needed, i wasnt going to debate it, uncessarily incase a weapon didnt drop (50% chance or so), u should of respected my decision at least and waited till after, it is ONE weapon for christs sake...

And also, the ppl who say im doing this cuz im RR6, tbh that is just laughable, i do these raids cuz enjoy them, however unless some ppls atitudes i wont keep doing them...

Have some consideration

 

[rayzor_e_w]

Originally posted by Falcor
and that after ive asked repeatedly for ppl not to bring up the topic till after raid IF apoc dies IF he drops a weapon, then maybe i will care enough to give an answer,

I think people like to know the rules before they take part in a raid.

 

[Galiryn]

why is the apoc only weapons for rr5+ only ?

my merc has one, i didnt hear anyone cry "OMG A RR3 MERC GOT IT!!!1!!" when i won it ?

 

[[PS]Venom]

Originally posted by rayzor_e_w
I think people like to know the rules before they take part in a raid.

Yes, because I won't help kill apoc if the fucking stupid RR5+ rule is in effect. In fact, I don't think I'll attend another one of falcor's raids period. I know we had a long discussion about various things, the situations with the Sidi raids, and I know there was more than just drop preclaiming involved - but I will never agree with that kind of lotto system.

That way you can jsut say "Oh, RR5+ lotto for apoc drops" AFTER you've had all the RR4- help you kill apoc.

That's outrageous.

You need to decide BEFORE the raid if apoc weps are RR5+ or not. You need to make everyone AWARE of wether they are or not. You can not decide after apoc goes down!

I see your point about not being congratulated, and in some ways I feel sorry for you. You've brought all this down on yourself by moving the goalposts, so I have no sympathy there.

 

[Falcor]

funny how it is the same ppl who post again and again and again :/

Rayzor: nicely miss quoting me,

Heinrich: u dont even come

Galiryn: after all those flames u gave me on bw and after raidbefore last i had just enough respec stones...

Thorwyn/ramas: U post a lot mut at least it is mostly constructive

Originally posted by Molten Lava
Was happy that on todays raid Apoc was bugged....

that is just pathetic

Rest of u did u even bother reading my second post, it applys to a lot of u....

 

[Molten Lava]

K

K read your second post: correct me if im wrong:

Lotto will be decided if needed after we kill Apoc and thats because we dont grats you for a great raid and we all post mud and we need to show respec cos it takes a lot off time for you to organise all this and listen to all the whines??

No? I didnt get it right? well its about the same logica you use in your posts...

wtf is the difference in telling BEFORE the raid if the rule applies....by not telling it till after its needed I can only assume you are going to use the rule but are not telling us because you are affraid that 100 people less will show up next raid....

Yes it takes a lot time to organise a raid and it takes a lot time to get to apoc...thats why I just wanna no if you are using this RR5+ crap...it's only 1 weapon (out of 25+ drops) but its enough for me to say: no im not going...

Dont worry abiut me btw I just went this saterday one time to see what all the fuss was about..I know enough now...

 

[[PS]Venom]

Originally posted by Falcor
Heinrich: u dont even come

Rest of u did u even bother reading my second post, it applys to a lot of u....

Nope, won't go in the future. I was going to be on more raids as I got a few irl things sorted out but I'm not now. Not with this rediculous rule in force, and even not if you back out and don't put the rule in force on principle.

I have said this before - I will say this again - YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE EVERYONE IS AWARE THAT THE APOCALYPSE WEAPONS ARE FOR RR5+ BEFORE THE RAID STARTS. Getting everyone to help you kill apoc and then give the kit out to those who have a few more numbers on their stats page is completely and utterly wrong.

If you don't understand why this is wrong, then there's nothing more I can say.

You lost a lot of respect over this Falcor, mine included.

 

[Falcor]

Originally posted by [PS]Venom

You lost a lot of respect over this Falcor, mine included.

So i give up my only day off every week, saturday for these raids, and yet i loose your respect?

 

[Skaven]

Originally posted by Falcor
So i give up my only day off every week, saturday for these raids, and yet i loose your respect?

If its so much hassle why bother at all? Im sure someone else would be able to take over the saturday slot.

 

[[PS]Venom]

Originally posted by Falcor
So i give up my only day off every week, saturday for these raids, and yet i loose your respect?

You loose my respect for the rules you're beginning to place on the raids. Not because you give up your days off. You should know that.

 

[Falcor]

dont u realise i hvato please not only you but the ppl who want this rule in? as i have said ppl would like ALL weapons going to rr5 ppl, imo this is a good compromise, compromise is good heinrich no? why do i loose ure respect for trying to keep everyone happy?

 

[Glottis_Xanadu]

Re: Raid today

Originally posted by Molten Lava
Was happy that on todays raid Apoc was bugged....I asked in chat to make clear BEFORE we start kicking Apoc what the rule about Apoc-drops was.....only thing I got was "ffs thats not important" "lets kill him first" and "shut up n00b"

I think people would like to know BEFORE the raid if Apoc-weapons are RR5 only so they can decide if its worth comming on the raid or not...in stead of having 150 people kill apoc and after that tell them "sorry guys we are only lottoing this with the l33t kids"

Shit for brains those ungratefull asses that came on the raid tbh.
Those elite kids helped all you unelite losers on keep takes, giving you losers DF to play with endless amounts of time (I love all those gimps bitching Albions never have DF, yet they don't jack about it themselves). Those elite kids helped all the others get to Apoc... and then you losers would stop to help them back...
And yes, I would like to state, all nice and dandy people who only do pve, but what Albion needs are people focused on rvr...
(not attacking Molten Lava here, I mean alb noobs in general).
Regards, Glottis

 

[Falcor]

tbh glottis i never thought about it that way, very true

 

[thorwyntf]

dont u realise i hvato please not only you but the ppl who want this rule in

so.. reversed, does this mean that if there´s a large enough number of people saying that Sidi drops should only go to sub rr5 people, we´re gonna see that rule in one of the upcoming raids too?

Seriously, I think that the "apoc weapon to rr5+" isn´t the problem here. And losing respect for each other doesn´t help us at all.
The problem is, that everybody, who´s going to a raid has a right to know what rules are in effect. I see your point and agree with you when you say that it´s low to let realmmates die in Apoc room because of one weapon drop. Yet, it can also be considered low not to tell people what rules are in effect until Apoc is dead because some might revolt. Whenever I join a game, whatver it may be, I want to at least know the rules. People may like the rules or not, but they at least have a right to know them, that´s the minimum. I can´t play a game of chess with somebody who might change the rules after I made my move. That´s a silly example but you get the idea.
And as you stated, this rules is a compromise, so why not just say "Yes, this rule is in effect, that´s the compromise" and see what happens? There´s nothing wrong with compromises, but on the other hand it´s kinda hard to find a compromise about a compromise.
I really think the situation is complicated enough, so there´s no reason to make it even more complicated.

Just my five cent...

 

[thorwyntf]

Those elite kids helped all you unelite losers on keep takes, giving you losers DF

rofl

 

[Belsameth]

Originally posted by Falcor
dont u realise i hvato please not only you but the ppl who want this rule in? as i have said ppl would like ALL weapons going to rr5 ppl, imo this is a good compromise, compromise is good heinrich no? why do i loose ure respect for trying to keep everyone happy?

after trying to make sense of this post, I figured that Apoc weapondrops indeed go to RR5+ people only?
that's what I read between the lines, at least.

 

[Galiryn]

Re: Re: Raid today

Originally posted by Glottis_Xanadu
Shit for brains those ungratefull asses that came on the raid tbh.
Those elite kids helped all you unelite losers on keep takes, giving you losers DF to play with endless amounts of time (I love all those gimps bitching Albions never have DF, yet they don't jack about it themselves). Those elite kids helped all the others get to Apoc... and then you losers would stop to help them back...
And yes, I would like to state, all nice and dandy people who only do pve, but what Albion needs are people focused on rvr...
(not attacking Molten Lava here, I mean alb noobs in general).
Regards, Glottis

if all the "noobs" didnt do anything, the "elites" would be in deep shit..
and im pretty sure all the "noobs" could do a sidi raid or a keep take without the "elites"

and btw, i hate df ;x

 

[rayzor_e_w]

Re: Re: Raid today

Originally posted by Glottis_Xanadu
Shit for brains those ungratefull asses that came on the raid tbh.
Those elite kids helped all you unelite losers on keep takes, giving you losers DF to play with endless amounts of time (I love all those gimps bitching Albions never have DF, yet they don't jack about it themselves). Those elite kids helped all the others get to Apoc... and then you losers would stop to help them back...
And yes, I would like to state, all nice and dandy people who only do pve, but what Albion needs are people focused on rvr...
(not attacking Molten Lava here, I mean alb noobs in general).
Regards, Glottis

lol, you are kidding right?

 

[Bleri McThrust]

Originally posted by Falcor

-No drops will be claimed, however i reserve right to ask to keep warlord sword(1h) should one drop.

-Apocalypse weapons, will now be realm rank lotto dependant, this is because of there effectiveness especially in rvr due to there speed, so now these will be lootoed by rr5+ ppl, this only applies to apoc weapons all others with be only limited to lvl 50(discuss - think its a fair compromise this is only one or non weapons a raid)

I dont attend the Saturday raids for a few reasons, one of which are the Im not preclaiming a drop but Im having X weapon if it so drops and the idea that certain drops should go to RR5 people, maybe if so decided.

Theses statements make the lotto unclear and open to argument. Which in its turn leads to bitchiness and bad feeling.

There are other reasons, mainly that the atmosphere never seems so good either. It would probably be the case that if all those that didnt like the rules just didnt go then maybe the atmosphere and discipline would improve also

I would suggest that the rules were made perfectly clear right at the beggining then people can decide and not spend there time arguing over it in your thread.

I can see the time coming when a raid reaches Apoc only to find all the players who are affected by the ambiguous rules holding a sit in

 

[[PS]Venom]

Originally posted by Falcor
dont u realise i hvato please not only you but the ppl who want this rule in? as i have said ppl would like ALL weapons going to rr5 ppl, imo this is a good compromise, compromise is good heinrich no? why do i loose ure respect for trying to keep everyone happy?

No, you lost my respect because you're just excluding people out of the drops that have worked for it. Because you seem convinced at making sure that you won't definatly say before Apocalypse die wether the weapon drop will go to RR5+ which to be honest is not only unfair, but disgraceful. Because you're now trying to justify this change. You are not making everyone happy. You're making a lot of people UNhappy.

Make your mind up. One way or the other. RR5+ for apoc weaponry or not. If you do enforce this rule, you need to make sure everyone KNOWS about it beforehand. if you do what you should and tell people that the Apocalypse weaponry is going to RR5+ people I'm damn sure you won't down him again, because a lot of people will feel like I do. That it's unfair.

Oh and Glottis... Riiiiiight.