Should pubs do more to stop binge drinking

[Fana]

Meh, rant over. I'm sure there's a point in there somewhere....

Im sure there isnt

 

[Chilly]

The goverment are increasingly out of touch with reality. How many MPs these days have had a real job for more than a couple of years? The ruling class is becoming more and more self-feeding and soon it will be virtually impossible for a non-ruling class person to get a seat anywhere with any clout.

 

[Lazarus]

Surely waking up drenched in piss is a sign of having a good night....

doesnt it depend on who's piss it is?

 

[Mey]

Go to work, get home, go to bed, get up, go to work, get paid, have half you're money taken off you in taxes, go to bed.. And people wonder why everyone gets pissed all the time..

 

[Gat_Decor]

Meh, rant over. I'm sure there's a point in there somewhere....

Im sure there isnt

Think there's more points in WPKenny's posts than yours

I was gonna add more but it's pointless with all the so called do gooders thinking they know what's best for everyone :s

 

[Trem]

Im sure there isnt

Imbecile.

 

[Pfy]

Go to work, get home, go to bed, get up, go to work, get paid, have half you're money taken off you in taxes, go to bed.. And people wonder why everyone gets pissed all the time..

50% Tax!? Wow, that sucks

But yes, it feels like the UK is becoming some kind of totalitarian state where-by we'll soon have to seek permission before each fart.

 

[Mey]

Not directly but when you factor in VAT / Petrol / Fags / Booze it might aswell be!

 

[DaGaffer]

where-by we'll soon have to seek permission before each fart.

You mean you don't keep them bottled up? CLIMATE CHANGE TERRORIST!!! PERSECUTE HIM!!!

 

[Fana]

The world isnt going to shit because of people who care, its going to shit because its become increasingly popular not to give a shit - "mind your own business and fuck everyone else" seems to be the mantra of today, and it shows very well in the comments of alot of people here. "Ill fucking get wasted 5 days a week if i fucking want to and anyone else that does so is in their full right to do so! Society can fuck off, im the centre of the fucking world and ill do whatever the fuck i want" etc.

You know the values of humanity have gone down the drain when people think its *wrong* for a government to care about the health and well-being of its citizens. Its simple - serving alcohol to people that are already drunk damages them and has a high risk of causing damage to people in their surroundings, therefore it is *wrong*. Logic follows that it is a good thing for a government to want to limit this.

 

[Damini]

You're deluded if you think the government want to raise taxes because they care. It's very sweet that you have such faith in them, but very naive.

You think HIPs were bought in to help home owners? Or to create jobs, and benefit from the VAT? You think increasing tax on cars and fuel is really to encourage people to use public transport? Tou believe tax on flying is to really to make people think, hang on, I'll have a holiday in Skegness instead? You think this talk of adding tax onto fatty foods is really to stop people becoming chubbsy?

The government doesn't view you as sad little people, unable to make a decision based on health, and only able to decide what to do on the basis of how much pocket money they let you have. They view you as plump human cattle, with teats that can be squeezed to produce sweet, sweet money.

 

[Sharma]

"Ill fucking get wasted 5 days a week if i fucking want to and anyone else that does so is in their full right to do so! Society can fuck off, im the centre of the fucking world and ill do whatever the fuck i want" etc.

And what's changed may I ask?

You suddenly seem to think that the whole getting fucked all the time thing is new? LOL

Jesus christ, we're bloody tame compared to how it used to be, hell from what I know in Victorian times everyone used to be in the pub after a hard days work and spend the rest of the evening downing pint after pint of extra strong beer.

This binge drinking thing is only an issue now because Health Faddists and the government feel the need to police the people and not the state anymore.

You've obviously been taken in by all this government bullshit they're sending out, people not giving a shit didn't just happen recently, rather more people are giving a shit these days, just these people are money spinners which prey on your fears.

 

[Fana]

Im not from the UK, im from Sweden, where we have a strong tradition of left wing social democracy, that has actually worked very well. We also have a strong tradition of sobriety movements with roots in the 1800's so we have never had that "getting wasted because life sucks" era of industrialism. Until now that is. Obviously my horror at what society is becoming is rooted in what Sweden was until recently - a place where the society took care of citizens and people wanted to help those less fortunate (both in economy and physical and mental aptitudes). This is changing though, and our society is moving towards a hard rightwing "i will take care of myself and no fucking leaches will touch whats mine" attitude. At a rapid pace. Its a shame the only picture of success that is promoted in todays society is one of wealth, fame and power.

 

[DaGaffer]

You know the values of humanity have gone down the drain when people think its *wrong* for a government to care about the health and well-being of its citizens. Its simple - serving alcohol to people that are already drunk damages them and has a high risk of causing damage to people in their surroundings, therefore it is *wrong*. Logic follows that it is a good thing for a government to want to limit this.

No, no, no. You are so wrong I don't know where to begin. It is not the job of government to tell people how to live their lives. Putting aside the fact that the government doesn't really give a fuck about "the health and well-being of its citizens" anyway, the government is supposed to be the servant of the people, not the other way around.

As all those "self-centred" people have already pointed out on here, so-called binge drinking is nothing new, most people grow out of it, but we have a massively paternalistic government that just can't stop interfering in people's lives, because they genuinely believe that we shouldn't be allowed to think for ourselves. If people damage themselves, that's their problem, and if they damage their surroundings, there are a shitload of existing laws to deal with that.

Labour have created over three thousand new laws since they came to power, and yet people probably feel less safe than ever, and yet here you are, advocating yet more.

 

[yaruar]

fucking nancy thread...........


toady liberals.......


last time i looked it wasn't illegal to get drunk, the whole country is an alky, i blame the government

It's illegal to serve alcohol to someone who is drunk though.

 

[Pfy]

No, no, no. You are so wrong I don't know where to begin. It is not the job of government to tell people how to live their lives. Putting aside the fact that the government doesn't really give a fuck about "the health and well-being of its citizens" anyway, the government is supposed to be the servant of the people, not the other way around.

As all those "self-centred" people have already pointed out on here, so-called binge drinking is nothing new, most people grow out of it, but we have a massively paternalistic government that just can't stop interfering in people's lives, because they genuinely believe that we shouldn't be allowed to think for ourselves. If people damage themselves, that's their problem, and if they damage their surroundings, there are a shitload of existing laws to deal with that.

Labour have created over three thousand new laws since they came to power, and yet people probably feel less safe than ever, and yet here you are, advocating yet more.

Exactamundo.

I just wrote loads, read it, deleted it and decided that exactamundo should suffice.

Oh and I'm sure there will soon be an NHS clause stating that if blood alcohol level > x then they're unable to help etc. What with smokers, fattys etc.

 

[Fana]

the government is supposed to be the servant of the people, not the other way around.

Exactly, and serving the people means doing what is best for the people. It means implementing and enforcing rules that may not be to the individuals taste but that benefit society as a whole and creates less suffering in the long run.

 

[Guest]

yes, and have you seen gordon brown or charles kenedy's face, whisky drinkers with the broken red veins.

 

[DaGaffer]

Exactly, and serving the people means doing what is best for the people. It means implementing and enforcing rules that may not be to the individuals taste but that benefit society as a whole and creates less suffering in the long run.

Depends on who's definition of what's "best" though. My view is that taking away individual responsibility is absolutely not what benefits society as a whole. The idea that the law should protect you "from yourself" is what this kind of proposal is all about, and that is a fundamental mistake in the long run. But to politicians, its manna from heaven; take away all of people's decision-making faculties and they become more compliant drones and probably less likely to vote for the other guy. In theory.

 

[Fana]

Alot of people need protecting from themselves though, and as an extension people need to be protected from those that have little selfcontrol. As i said earlier in the thread, letting those with no selfcontrol fuck themselves up usually means Bad Things happen to people in their enviroment.

 

[DaGaffer]

Alot of people need protecting from themselves though, and as an extension people need to be protected from those that have little selfcontrol. As i said earlier in the thread, letting those with no selfcontrol fuck themselves up usually means Bad Things happen to people in their enviroment.

And that's where I will never agree with you. Most people don't need protecting from themselves, and making laws for the minority that do is counter-productive, because it encourages less self-reliance overall. As far bad things happening in their environment, I've said it time and again, there are plenty of existing laws to deal with that.

 

[Fana]

And that's where I will never agree with you. Most people don't need protecting from themselves, and making laws for the minority that do is counter-productive, because it encourages less self-reliance overall. As far bad things happening in their environment, I've said it time and again, there are plenty of existing laws to deal with that.

And yet alcohol abuse is one of the primary causes for suffering in the world.

Tbh i dont care very much for the person that wants to drink their liver into a shrivelled prune or their brain into a stupor. Its alil tragic that s/he feels that is something s/he needs to do but the real tragedy is when the abuse spills over onto people around these individuals, which it invaribly does, both in the short term (assaults, rape etc) and the long term (family abuse, neglected work, neglected care etc etc). So yes, i am definetly for society taking preventative messaures if it can alleviate the lives of those millions that are touched by alcohol abuse indirectly.

 

[DaGaffer]

And yet alcohol abuse is one of the primary causes for suffering in the world.

Is it bollocks. Ask an AIDS-patient in Uganda, or an Afghan who's just had their house blown up, or a starving refugee in Darfur about our petty obsessions with the fallout from a Saturday-night pissup before you make such banal statements.

 

[Fana]

Is it bollocks. Ask an AIDS-patient in Uganda, or an Afghan who's just had their house blown up, or a starving refugee in Darfur about our petty obsessions with the fallout from a Saturday-night pissup before you make such banal statements.

One. of.

 

[DaGaffer]

One. of.

and the word "primary". And its just not true. Look at the WHO list of top killers (they divide it by rich, middle and poor countries) and booze doesn't appear at all. The obsession with the evils of drink is primarily a northern European (and its former colonies) one, and its an obsession blown out of all proportion. In fact for every individual who drinks themselves to death or becomes an alcoholic wife-beater, there are probably thousands more who's lives are extended my moderate drinking.

I'm not saying sustained excessive boozing is something to be encouraged, but neither are "we know what's good for you" governments.

 

[Fana]

and the word "primary". And its just not true. Look at the WHO list of top killers (they divide it by rich, middle and poor countries) and booze doesn't appear at all. The obsession with the evils of drink is primarily a northern European (and its former colonies) one, and its an obsession blown out of all proportion. In fact for every individual who drinks themselves to death or becomes an alcoholic wife-beater, there are probably thousands more who's lives are extended my moderate drinking.

I'm not saying sustained excessive boozing is something to be encouraged, but neither are "we know what's good for you" governments.

Suffering, not outright deaths.

 

[Raven]

Alot of people need protecting from themselves though, and as an extension people need to be protected from those that have little selfcontrol. As i said earlier in the thread, letting those with no selfcontrol fuck themselves up usually means Bad Things happen to people in their enviroment.

This is where we get back to dawinism , let the stupid ***** that cant read a label kill themselves, its not a great loss to the world if some parasite decides to drink himself to death, sounds harsh but thats nature i am afraid. Why should i have to pay an inflated price for something just because other people are morons?

Anyway, i guess this is why democracy pretty much fails;

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote! - Benjamin Franklin

 

[Bullitt]

I'm not sure where i'd stand on this. After all it's just hear-say, and aggravated by the media - which I trust the least of all (out of everyone/everything).

There was an interesting program on quite a while back (last year i think on channel 4) about the state of Britain. It had extracts from reports and quotes from the general public through history. In which they said pretty much the same thing each time - throughout decades and even centuries. About binge drinking, violent gangs of youths, ladette culture etc.

I'm drawn to the opinion that nothing actually changes that much, I believe we all have a tendancy to look back to a 'Golden Age' because the good times are far easier to remember than the bad times. And we'll always use ourselves as a base model for society at that time.

 

[Fana]

This is where we get back to dawinism , let the stupid ***** that cant read a label kill themselves, its not a great loss to the world if some parasite decides to drink himself to death, sounds harsh but thats nature i am afraid. Why should i have to pay an inflated price for something just because other people are morons?

Anyway, i guess this is why democracy pretty much fails;

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote! - Benjamin Franklin

Some people are born deaf, without arms, blind, or with mental disabilities. Some people are born with a certain genetic build that is conducive to alcoholism. Both categories need help. Sometimes life deals you a shitty hand and you arent equiped to handle it, and i dont think you should be left behind by the rest of society that is equiped to lend a helping hand. Touting Darwinism is the very popular these days, but our society has evolved beyond "survival of the fittest" - we can engineer our own evolution as a society today - not just as invididuals reaching for indvidual perfection. It is as a society we stand or fall, and i for one want to live in a society that has evolved morally and ethically as well as in power and riches.

 

[Sharma]

You missed Raven's point in the most complete manner ever.

How exactly do retarded people come into this, as far as I know I don't see many of them going out and getting absolutely bloody sloshed.

We're on about DRINKING here and people TOO STUPID to know when to stop.

Raven was pointing out to let Darwinism run it's course on people who really are thick enough to think "Oh, i'll take that 25th pint and i'll be reet".

Stupid is as stupid does.

Where is the moral obligation to help these morons?

Fair enough with retards, that's all fair and dandy since it isn't their fault they're like that, the people drinking themselves into oblivion i'm sure are quite well aware of the dangers of excessive drinking, they just however choose to ignore it.