Politics Should it be a civil right to bear arms?

[throdgrain]

Someone who mentioned the recent shooting in Norway is clearly confused. If someone on the island was carrying a gun in a situation where a calm killer in a police uniform was shooting running, screaming, hiding kids you think the situation would have been better? It's possible, but I don't think it's likely. I think the same when people tell me that if the kids/teachers in US schools could carry concealed weapons, mass school shootings would be less frequent and less bloody when they did occur. Again that seems unlikely to me.

It might seem unlikely to you, it seems to me that if an armed person had been on that island they might, might have saved many lives.

They might also have got shot and killed too of course, but then not having a gun isnt going to stop you getting killed in that situation is it?

Another theory about the school shootings in the US is that one of the reasons they take place there is because no-one can shoot back ...

 

[throdgrain]

Anyone who believes they can defend themselves like some kind of Tony Martin on steroids (who shot a couple of teenagers in the ass as they were running away let us not forget) is the wrong side of delusional.

We are over-posting each other But anyway, Tony Martin did a good job if you ask me.



(waits for inevitable lefty hand-ringing backlash)

 

[Scouse]

B'jeesus. All this guff over the American constitution eh?


The simple answer is this: The right to bear arms was written into the US constitution because they knew that the Government is the most dangerous organisational structure.

If a government goes bad, starts opressing its people, doesn't represent their needs, has control over the military and you want it out - only force will do the job.

History (and the present day) shows it.

What would we do if our government went the way of Hitler's? Yep, we'd sit about and whine whilst they burn megadave.

 

[Killswitch]

We are over-posting each other But anyway, Tony Martin did a good job if you ask me.



(waits for inevitable lefty hand-ringing backlash)

I agree and am therefore going to have some delicious, firearm-free curry! With the over-posting thing, not with the Tony Martin thing!

 

[Killswitch]

What would we do if our government went the way of Hitler's? Yep, we'd sit about and whine whilst they burn megadave.

I would actively campaign for the burning of Megadave, but that's another thread right there

The idea that an armed militia could effectively remove a malicious government from power does seem less ridiculous following the Arab Spring, but without NATO bombs and stolen RPGs and Anti-Aircraft weapons, the Gaddafi would have seen off the rebels within 3 days.

The chances of something similar working in the US or the UK are pretty small, we can't even keep a campaign of looting going once the weather gets a bit damp!

 

[ford prefect]

Throd, presumably you want this legislation as an insurance to protect your own family or yourself?

Now it the numbers speak for themselves in terms of increase in the amount of gun crime and obviously accidental death. I think you know that the actual likelihood of you being in that situation is incredibly slim.

All that being the case, you honestly think those increases and dangers are outweighed by the slight possibility you or your family might find themselves in danger, and the even slimmer possibility that you are in a position to do something about it? That strikes me as a bit illogical to be honest.

 

[Scouse]

The chances of something similar working in the US or the UK are pretty small, we can't even keep a campaign of looting going once the weather gets a bit damp!

Even if you were right (which I don't think you are) - the choice still remains of a small hope of overthrowing the regime (with weapons) or no hope of ever overthrowing the regime (without).


I used to be passionately anti-gun ownership - from the age of ten until my late twenties.

Now I know better...



Edit: As for the gun crime/accidental death thing - that's just something you have to accept will happen as a "cost" (if you like) for ensuring your potential to overthrow the government is intact. And anyway - if we weren't running a capitalist economic system there wouldn't be as much crime...

 

[throdgrain]

B'jeesus. All this guff over the American constitution eh?


The simple answer is this: The right to bear arms was written into the US constitution because they knew that the Government is the most dangerous organisational structure.

If a government goes bad, starts opressing its people, doesn't represent their needs, has control over the military and you want it out - only force will do the job.

History (and the present day) shows it.

What would we do if our government went the way of Hitler's? Yep, we'd sit about and whine whilst they burn megadave.

Jesus, a rare day, I agree with you Scouse

The difference is, if it went Nazi here we'd get a lot of brain-washed apologists making excuses ...

 

[Gumbo]

Just a point of order. Tony Martin didn't shoot those pikeys as they were running away.

He gave the first barrel to the lad who was bent over a holdall stuffing it with Martins silver. Fearon took the other barrel as he tried to leap out of the window which they had broken to get in.

It was a shame it wasn't two headshots imho. Fearon, after serving time for his part in the robbery has continued the usual life of crime of the pikey, and continued to be a drain on the state.

 

[Uncle Sick]

The best burglar deterrent is a large dog. Anyone who'll try and enter your home will be a smorgasbord of fear/anxiety/excitement smells.

A large dog will flip out and start barking if somebody is working on a lock.
Guy runs. People are scared of dogs, fact.

If they're meth-ed up, the dog will still put em down through sheer weight/aggression defending their home/pack.

This is Ronat, my American Pitbull. Want to break into my house?
(Yes, it's a so-called dangerous breed and a rescue.. she lives with a Black Lab, a red Border Collie, a Chihuahua and my ten year old daughter. In case somebody wants to lecture me on how dangerous that breed is. It isn't.).

My last line of defense is my rifle, though. End of story. I'd kill to protect my family, no questions asked.


Edit:

And in case you run, she'll get in the car and chase you the fuck down.

 

[throdgrain]

The best burglar deterrent is a large dog. Anyone who'll try and enter your home will be a smorgasbord of fear/anxiety/excitement smells.

A large dog will flip out and start barking if somebody is working on a lock.
Guy runs. People are scared of dogs, fact.

If they're meth-ed up, the dog will still put em down through sheer weight/aggression defending their home/pack.

This is Ronat, my American Pitbull. Want to break into my house?
(Yes, it's a so-called dangerous breed and a rescue.. she lives with a Black Lab, a red Border Collie, a Chihuahua and my ten year old daughter. In case somebody wants to lecture me on how dangerous that breed is. It isn't.).

My last line of defense is my rifle, though. End of story. I'd kill to protect my family, no questions asked.


Edit:

And in case you run, she'll get in the car and chase you the fuck down.

Agree, I had GSD's for the last 15+ years, but now we have a Golden Retriever.

As a guard dog he'd make a good pianist

My last line of defense is my rifle, though. End of story. I'd kill to protect my family, no questions asked.

Same as me, only it's my 870

 

[Punishment]

I can hit someones eye socket from 200m with a Steyr Augustine but i would still rather defend myself with my fists tbh, more guns = more gun nuts

 

[Embattle]

Hmm didn't something like this break out in one of the other threads, either way the evidence clearly links higher gun possion to higher gun related crime including a higher murder rate and all other points are poor or moot.

BTW - http://www.gunpolicy.org/

 

[throdgrain]

You serve up an opinion backed by an antis website, nice.

 

[Raven]

I think people should be allowed to own hand guns and certainly rifles, if people want to sport shoot then they should be allowed to, gun control is very tight in the UK. You can kill people with the guns you are allowed to use now, what difference would it make? If someone actually wants to kill someone then they will do it, regardless of whether they have a firearm to hand.

Whether they can sit on their porch aiming them at the local chav population is another matter entirely. It would be nice but it crosses several moral boundaries.

Personally I have a 3 foot machete behind the headboard, I very much doubt and hope I will ever need it but I would rather not need it than find myself in the situation where some parasite is threatening the safety of me and my family and have no way of defending us and our property.

 

[Tom]

Hmm didn't something like this break out in one of the other threads, either way the evidence clearly links higher gun possion to higher gun related crime including a higher murder rate and all other points are poor or moot.

BTW - Gun Policy Facts and News

Interestingly, that doesn't appear to be the case in Switzerland, where people own things like this:

 

[Punishment]

Interestingly, that doesn't appear to be the case in Switzerland, where people own things like this:

Awesome gun

 

[TdC]

I am sure all those people have that rifle raring to go just in case someone burgles their house. Oh, wait, they're Swiss, so they have it carefully locked away, with the bullets locked away somewhere else.

if you do that like the responsible gun owner you are, you're equally far away from using the weapon to defend your home from a burglar as I am, and I don't own any weapons. so, that said, can someone please explain what is the point of owning the weapon at all?

 

[Uncle Sick]

More guns = more gun crimes. Obviously there need to be restrictions and laws.

People think everyone in the US has a machine gun in their shed - as a matter of fact most states have gun laws in place already. In Maine fully automatic weapons are illegal. Not in Arizona, though - you can fire your MG42 in the desert to your hearts content. You get caught with one here, you're going to the clink.

You can't have firearms near schools, hospitals, public buildings etc.

I don't mind having a rifle in the house. I love shooting and I can take care of zombies/rioters/people trying to take my stuff or harm my family.

I have a sling attached to it, for better handling on the range. I also have a bayonet for it (came with it...).

I'm not going to sling it over my shoulder to go to Walmart. I'm not going to attach the bayonet to it to stick somebody. Get my point?

If you wanna harm somebody, you will.
If you don't, you won't.
Firearm or not.

 

[Scouse]

Wow sick. You go from anti to pro-gun in one post

 

[Embattle]

You serve up an opinion backed by an antis website, nice.

If you want to see it that way then fine, I can say you serve up an opinion with the same crap excuses American's use...so what.

Tom it is generally the case, it doesn't mean it is the case for absolutely every country.

Uncle I tend to think someone trying to hurt me with a gun is a bit more of a problem for me to combat.

 

[Uncle Sick]

Wow sick. You go from anti to pro-gun in one post

I'm twisted like that.

I'm pro-gun for having one in my house for zombie defense and target shooting. Plus I'm a WW2 nut... I'm planning on getting a K98 and a Lee Enfield rifle some time.

But - I'm against weapons being too easily available (30 minute background check... come on) and people having access to full automatic weapons.

So.. I'm sort of in between. Yes, make it difficult to get one... but let me have one if I can prove to be a sane, responsible human being.

 

[old.Tohtori]

No idea on how practical, or good, or whatnot it is, but i've always liked the outlook, style and overall bad-assness of the cylinder type shotguns. These fellas;

Probably utter crap, but hey, cool factor +1

 

[throdgrain]

Thats a picture from a game isnt it

 

[Olgaline]

Make all guns mandatorily fluorescent pink!

this way we'd only go near them, if we absolutely, unavoidably have to.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Thats a picture from a game isnt it

Yeah, it's just an example

Think that's from fallout 3.

 

[Embattle]

Make all guns mandatorily fluorescent pink!

this way we'd only go near them, if we absolutely, unavoidably have to.

Men perhaps.

 

[Kahland]

We should all live like Bugsy Malone, shooting splurge guns and heroin. Wat?