Should Armsman get Loved?

[Coim-]

Originally posted by Vegy
Finally, explain to me why arms has to be the 'primary tank' anyway?

Armsman. Oh, and the fact that they have nothing else except their weapon.

 

[Kagato.]

Armsman do need some love, theres no question about that, but we are far from bad. One on one a correctly specced Armsman can stand up to any other tank in any realm with as much chance of winning as anyone else can expect (note I am NOT saying an Armsman can own any tank, im saying we have as much chance at winning as anyone else can expect).

With a few much needed Style fixes (which may be addressed in the forth coming style review) and a fix for the dreaded Albion double-speccing, which Mythic are supposedly looking into, Armsman can be a very solid class. It wouldn't take alot to bring Armsman up to par.

 

[Xeanor]

If you make a tank group:

2 Mercs, 1 Armsman

They can hit the enemy for an enormous amount of damage in 1 hit, and they have another GROUP REALM ABILITY.

 

[ilienwyn]

Problem is ever since paladins got end regen chant s/s arms are no longer needed as one defender in a group is pretty much enough these days.
Then comparing a hybrid arms specc with a warriors or heros specc is surely showing that we are missing things. Take me crazy but i want to have some high parry too. Why armsman should be penalised for going 50/42/39 having minimal or no parry at all when warrior can go 50/50/28 and use 1h and 2h without losing nothing at all?

 

[cHodAX]

Originally posted by Xeanor
If you make a tank group:

2 Mercs, 1 Armsman

They can hit the enemy for an enormous amount of damage in 1 hit, and they have another GROUP REALM ABILITY.

As stated by another person because of double speccing they can also hit for as low as 300 which is on a par with merc mainhand damage. The variance is way out of line, a very good friend of mine has played a pole armsman since beta and his biggest frustration is lack of consistant damage output. Neither of Warrior or Hero have that problem and yet the have more versatility on top of the tight damage variance.

 

[-fwapp-]

Originally posted by Wij
Rubbish. Armsmen are your primary tank. They can last for years and still do more damage than a pally. Not as boring as warriors. Get Determination and farm RP.

how are they not as boring as warriors, who can be proficient at the 2h and s/s style of weapon with only 1 spec line and therefore get to change style whenever they feel like it?

 

[asorek]

Originally posted by Coim-
Indeed, but instead of comparing them to albion's other tanks, compare them to the other realms. The whole double-speccing thing is...well...stupid. Why did they have to put double speccing in? Warrior's don't have it. Hero's don't have it. Why armsmans?

Thank god someone agrees with me, i dont play an armsman but they really need to remove the dbl speccing issue and give armsman a free polearm spec, jees if you spec polearm u shouldn't have to spec slash/crush whatever aswell, thats retarded and a main reason why they get raped by most other tanks 1 on 1, mids gets free access to 2H aswell as Hib's just by speccing their weapon skill, its dumb that armsman should have to spec twice..therefore nerfing themselvesd to spec elsewhere..

a lot of armsman say no dont remove the dbl speccing thing. cos then theyd have access to 50 pole 50 crush or whatever combo you choose opening 3 weapon types at high levels..well good luck to em i say, anyone that wants to arse about and swap weapons mid battle is free to do so, i think they fear other realms shounting nerf if they get access to that many weapon skills, well i for one would welcome it.

 

[Damon_D]

Originally posted by Coim-
It's 4 points for purge, not 8. And tbh, warriors are a LOT better than armsmans. Warrior > Hero > Armsman...

LOL yeah and pigs fly

 

[Aldrian]

I once hit a druid for 216 with my pole unstyled, then 215 with style :|

53 slash 63 pole

 

[chretien]

I don't think that double-speccing per se is the problem, I think it's the fact that you get so little for it. 50 pole/50 slash should deal out apocalyptic damage and give you a weapon skill that can't be touched. All you actually get is a bunch of styles you can only use half of and a huge damage variance. Honestly though I don't see how they can fix it without completely rejigging the whole of Albion's melee code as the reason that the variance is so high is due to the fact that minimum damage is a function of your weapon style skill whilst maximum damage is a function of polearm skill. Therefore to tighten the variance they'd either need to take weapon style out of the eqation all together (removing the need for double spec) or increase the minimum damage from weapon style and have to rework the way that every other non-staff alb class works.
Probably the easiest solution is to give Armsmen a better hit table so that the variance is still there but even a low end hit will outperform an average 1h styled hit. As it is if I was going to make another tank I'd be looking at a Merc or even a Friar before I'd consider an Armsman.

 

[thegreatest]

did the armsman TL report got a feedback by the way? Cant seem to find it anywhere...

 

[old.Isos]

best thing ever for the armsman was when they changed the graphics on the plate armour

give em some love pls

 

[Graknak]

aye,just fix double speccing, both for pally 2h as for pole/2h arms.
that way armsmen can spec hybrid shield/pole or 2h/weapon like warriors can but all they have to do is switch weps ><

 

[Ala]

I just made a /level Armswoman and she is ubber teh sexeh killa

I'm soloing 2 yellers at a time and nps... and quick too!

I reckon she is great! Specced her Pole/crush til 40 then goin thrust.

 

[Tasans]

Originally posted by ilienwyn

Then comparing a hybrid arms specc with a warriors or heros specc is surely showing that we are missing things. Take me crazy but i want to have some high parry too. Why armsman should be penalised for going 50/42/39 having minimal or no parry at all when warrior can go 50/50/28 and use 1h and 2h without losing nothing at all?

Dont start that arguement again please, its so last year.

 

[asorek]

Originally posted by Ala
I just made a /level Armswoman and she is ubber teh sexeh killa

I'm soloing 2 yellers at a time and nps... and quick too!

I reckon she is great! Specced her Pole/crush til 40 then goin thrust.

you actually WANT to spec Thrust???

just curious as to why? i'd stick with crush or slash..much better for PvE and afaik RvR too...unless Thrust gets uber dmg against other tanks?!!?

 

[old.mattshanes]

50 thrust 50 pole 28 parry is best assisting armsman/armswoman full stop end of story ^^

 

[Fightersuntzu]

i went 50pole/44thrust/36 parry and dont really mind it too bad, but the variance thing is a pain in the ass

Hit for 700s, then hit for a couple hundred a few minutes later.....

Imo, they should allow polearmsmen to spec one secondary line, make it work right at least - and maybe allow access to multiple damage types for the double specing.

 

[Kagato.]

Originally posted by asorek
you actually WANT to spec Thrust???

just curious as to why? i'd stick with crush or slash..much better for PvE and afaik RvR too...unless Thrust gets uber dmg against other tanks?!!?

Because thrust is neutral to all hib armour and best against most mid classes and is the least resisted damage type to Albions enemy classes, the majority of polearmers spec thrust for this reason, and seeing as ALL polearms are 100% strength based regardless of damage type we suffer no penalty for choosing whatever damage we like in accordance with enemy armours.

 

[Graknak]

me and a friend acually made up this spec:
50 pole
35 thrust
35 crush
29 parry

gives 2 options on dmg types, with RR 5 and +items next patch (mostly +allmelee, only base melee like crush/slash/thrust, on good drops) it gives you 65 pole, 50 thrust 50 crush and 44 parry, then just take Moparry 2 to have 56 parry and voila, still needs to be tested, but the with the current rate of dragonraids getting a full skill respec should be that hard.

 

[Xeanor]

Originally posted by old.cHodAX
As stated by another person because of double speccing they can also hit for as low as 300 which is on a par with merc mainhand damage. The variance is way out of line, a very good friend of mine has played a pole armsman since beta and his biggest frustration is lack of consistant damage output. Neither of Warrior or Hero have that problem and yet the have more versatility on top of the tight damage variance.

Cormack hits for 600 usually with the needed crits too.

Seen him hit like 50-60% off a healer in 1 blow, the damage is perfect, more damage would be way overpowered.

Armsman is good atm.

And anyone who doesnt double-spec is STUPID.

50 thrust 50 pole

or

50 pole 42 shield 39 thrust

both good specs.

They have a uber behind positional style with a very good follow-up.

That 'armsman' you know since beta seems to have fucked up his spec or something then.

 

[Coim-]

Originally posted by Damon Doombring
LOL yeah and pigs fly

Constructive comment I must say. Care to explain why I'm wrong?

 

[Jiggs]

i know nothing about armsman tbh but this fact:

as a cleric the only person that can guard me effectively against savages is Chuffy: rr8 full s+s armsman..

 

[cHodAX]

Originally posted by Xeanor

That 'armsman' you know since beta seems to have fucked up his spec or something then.

Well considering other armsman are saying the same thing about variance it seems odd that he is getting none, 50/50 spec? Also 50enh buffs increase weaponskill hugely which most armsman don't have access to but I imagine Conmack does when he is in your group.

 

[cHodAX]

Originally posted by Jiggs
i know nothing about armsman tbh but this fact:

as a cleric the only person that can guard me effectively against savages is Chuffy: rr8 full s+s armsman..

High shield spec saracen paladin, got one on Albion Prydwen who does a nice job blocking the dragon.

 

[Xeanor]

Originally posted by old.cHodAX
Well considering other armsman are saying the same thing about variance it seems odd that he is getting none, 50/50 spec? Also 50enh buffs increase weaponskill hugely which most armsman don't have access to but I imagine Conmack does when he is in your group.

In other words:

a boost would make the buffed ones even better

 

[cHodAX]

Originally posted by Xeanor
In other words:

a boost would make the buffed ones even better

So let me get this straight, we don't change the class because by fixing polearm for the 'average' player would made buffbotted armsman hit harder? Bit silly when you consider 90% of pole armsman don't have access to buffbots. Also consider this, a savage will often outhit a pole armsman and yet he is a light tank. If an armsman is forced to double spec all the way then he should be rewarded with the damage to go along with it, now all but 2 pole armsman in this thread are unhappy about variance so it would suggest there is a problem with armsman damage if they aren't buffed to the nuts.

 

[cHodAX]

Oh and ask Sycho this, which light tank hit him for over 800 in the opening round. It seems buffed savages/spearos/zerks(pre-1.62) are or have all hit for consistenly more than a buffed armsman. Again I will say, Albion's supposed hardest hitter is hitting for far less than other tanks buffed or unbuffed and the odd 700dmg doesn't make up for all the 200-300dmg hits they do.

 

[Xeanor]

savages are overpowered, why else do you think there's 1000000 threads about them?

has nothing to do with armsman, it outdamages ANY other melee class

but compared to other classes, armsmen do good damage,

spear hero/lw hero/champ hit for only 400 or so on my sorc, and they hit at the same speed

and a big hit is usually better than a lot of small hits

2x big hit = dead caster, no healing possible

lots of small hits = easy healing

 

[cHodAX]

Originally posted by Xeanor
savages are overpowered, why else do you think there's 1000000 threads about them?

Zerks and SB's were also overpowered for ooh about 18 months but we get the usual 'we are the melee realm' crap.

Now a back to the issue, 2 hand warrior hits feking hard every hit and can switch to shield for a slam, not a choice most pole armsman have. Spearos have moose mode so with 8 points in i.p. they have at least 1.5 full heals, tight variance and a the choice to spec high parry AND shield for slam. Pole Armsman has to double spec to get tighter variance which leaves him just enough points for average parry and no slam, if he specs slam he has to sacrifce an average of 100dmg per hit AND loses all parry hence lowering his defense level.