Shelter says, "u arnt good for anything"

[old.Demerzel]

Yup many things here said that is true, and also obvious.

To sum up for rouges: you are never first choice
If a group wants damage dealth: they want a caster.
If a group wants damage taken: they want a tank.

 

[Alrindel]

Oh yeah, I knew there was something else I wanted to say when I read your post, Killgorde, but I couldn't quite put my finger on it at first.

How many stealthers do you all know who popped 50 then buggered off to emain/gorge and do their own thing and were hardly ever seen again (except high on the rp tables? Who wanted exp groups with more "team-orientated" players to help them get to 50, then gave little or nothing back in return to those who helped them get there?

If we're talking about PvE, how many stealthers do you know who have been asked to help out with exp groups after they ding 50? My ranger isn't much more desirable in a high level exp group at 50 than she was at 49. The people who get begged to keep exping after 50 in Hib are mainly wardens and enchanters. Rangers and Nightshades... there are too many of them around to begin with. I could sit at Innis for hours intoning, "level 50 ranger offering services to group" and I would probably get a lot of funny looks and a lot of private messages wondering what I was playing at, but I doubt I'd get any invitations.

Having said that, one of my main post-50 activities has been trying to figure out how to help my guild's 40+ shades get up that last stretch of mountain road. It isn't easy.

If we're talking about RvR then I can assure you that the only time I'm out solo is when I can't get in a group and I'm pretty sure most archers in all three realms feel the same way. Given a choice between sneaking around trying to snipe solo, and being in a group with buffs, bubble, speed/end and some nice healers and mezzers, I don't have to think about that for very long... and it was that way months before I heard those terrifying words, "See Hidden".

 

[SingerOfSoul]

hehe 2 bards > anything me and rhymes demonstrated that many a time...

2 rpretty high regrowth bards (for a bard of course)
and both end and mana end = more tank styles mana = more mana for heal instead of choosing between wether u have tanks whining at ya or casters hehe.

 

[Killgorde]

Originally posted by Alrindel

If we're talking about RvR then I can assure you that the only time I'm out solo is when I can't get in a group and I'm pretty sure most archers in all three realms feel the same way. Given a choice between sneaking around trying to snipe solo, and being in a group with buffs, bubble, speed/end and some nice healers and mezzers, I don't have to think about that for very long... and it was that way months before I heard those terrifying words, "See Hidden".

Lol calm down Al

I did say "some" rather than "all" if you read my post carefully. And as an exponent of Team-RvR rather than the solo variety my post was aimed at those individuals who played (and some still do) as just that - individuals. Maybe 100 peeps can tell you I have never discriminated against any class in PvE - ever. But there are certain individuals out there (and as far as Midgard is concerned most know who they are) who did a Houdini after popping 50 and were never seen again (figuratively) in the "Team" sense until See Hidden and TS raised their ugly heads and they were forced to group. Or perhaps the stealther community in Hibbieland is whiter than white in this regard?

 

[Novamir]

nope, exact same thing happened with several high level rangers. most aren't still playing today tho, the ones who dinged 50 around when i did.

then there was the rangers who instantly turned to grouping when see hidden was introduced (or whenever they realised they could get more RPs that way). as a 100% group class, it always grated me

 

[Shelter]

the facts...

i gave the reason to start this discussion...

1st of all we didnt need another meele char taht day we had a close to perfect PB group there 2 tanks, 1 warden, 3 area nuker, 1 bard for mana we used to save the last spot for a 2nd bard for endreggen, to be able to chainpull red/orange conned mobs to the highest char in group, we had it later and we chained em and it was quite some decent exp

I didnt want a shade in that, coz i wanted to have a PERFECT group, which i got later there. i said "ur good for nothing" coz a shade wouldnt have been good for anything there in that group, we had all 3 inc mobs covered with tanks (warden) and damage came from area nukers letting someone else then a bard join would just have made the group "weak", lesser exp same speed and nothing would have been more save
i didnt read the line in the code of conduct which said "u have to benefit the lvling of otehr ppl in this game" so why should i accept exp looses and nothing to gain for me, for letting a folk join me or someone else of that group didnt even know?
"ur good for nothing" may have been a lil rude, yeah, but he bugged us the 3rd time, how often do i have to say no, till someone just give it up?
if i ask a group for a spot, and i get a "no sry ..." im turning away and try to find another way to get my exp, and stealtehrs should be a lil more willed to accept a "no", coz they know they rnt the best chars for exping groups, they should accept the fact that they have, or will have , a decent RVR char later, they decided to go that way, it was their choice not mine i didnt beg em to lvl a stealther so why should i benefit em?
and i was just honest, i wanted a bard and not a stealther, so thats what i said, u would have liked it more if i would have lyed? if thats what u wanna hear, ok, ill lie from now on

tanking shades...: we all know that a shade can tank if he got a BT as backup, but my shield BM can tank 3 orange or 2 orange and a red mob with a warden and a healer as backup, in a pb group

and to bring this all up in public and call the names of the ppl in that group and blame em for the things i said, isnt the way this should work, if u have a prob with me, ignore me, blame me, insult me or do what ever u think u gotta do, but u shouldnt do in public, u may even try to force my guild to do anything, but not in public an especially not ppl who rnt really involved in the prob u have.

i read, what i said was being called lame, but tbh, this here and how that thing was handled is a lil more lame in my eyes, maybe im wrong there, but its just how i see it...

im playing this game now since the beta and i stoped to count the times i got pissed off by ppl for doing group jumps, rude behavior, unableness or what ever...
if there is someone who pissed me off i just use to set him on my ignore list to remind me not to group with him again. and i call u all up to ignore me and never group with me, if u think i deserve it for my point of view.

 

[old.Tzeentch]

this thread is just getting started

anyone for popcorn?

 

[Arakiel]

oh well .
being a blademaster > people have loads of bias towards spearo's

not as bad as a NS i spose
, i know how they can be wrong > i have evade and dodger > soloed a blue last night for fun , he couldnt hit me half the time , i was unbuffedand in the end i just stopped attacking and let my DoT from my blades kill him.

ive said before > down to the player and what he does with the tools he is given

Even if i was assasin class ,id feel bad when ppl brushed me off like that > but id go and get another group , i would get 50 < hope you do it too >

AS for Demerzel and Feldegast > guess whos joining you in PvP muhahahha mateys its gonna be like it was before you both shot up to 50

 

[Danya]

2 bards is pointless, group a bard and mentalist.

 

[Keri]

A bard's mana regen doesn't run out after 10 minutes.
A bard will never say "OOM ... wait for MR".
Ever been in a group with 2 bards, one playing speed 5, the other end 5, and the whole group on sprint?

 

[Danya]

2 bards and a ment is even better... end, speed and mana.
Also MR is a cheap spell to cast it takes a few seconds to get enough mana to cast crack at most. I'm yet to lack mana to cast MR unless I've just been ressed.

 

[old.Astrix]

Re: the facts...

Originally posted by Shelter
im playing this game now since the beta and i stoped to count the times i got pissed off by ppl for doing group jumps, rude behavior, unableness or what ever...
if there is someone who pissed me off i just use to set him on my ignore list to remind me not to group with him again. and i call u all up to ignore me and never group with me, if u think i deserve it for my point of view.

If you call someone "useless" then you're the one insulting somebody for no reason at all. Face it mate: you're an ass

 

[JoxerTheMighty]

Originally posted by old.Tzeentch
this thread is just getting started

anyone for popcorn?

yes please, Tzee

 

[Gohlanchdir]

Well guys, this thread is quite easy to see. We have those who are for bringing stealthers into xp groups and those who are against. There are many good reasons for meaning both:


-There is no one who is better at scouting for a group in RvR
-When specced right the have evade good enough to barely be hit
-They acctually give out a lot of damage

:-(
-They will cause a lot of downtime, if they should die
-They cannot take as much damage as other tanks
-Some of them are not used to grouping, and might do errors ending in deaths, but this is easily learned

Well my opinion is that for the sake of the realm of Hibernia, we need highlevel stealthers. And therefor i feel it is every player in this realms obligation to sacrifice a little of their own xp, and stop beeing so selfish and have stealthers in group. Ofcourse, a guildgroup, or RL friends group is something else. But in the long run i hope you all see, that Hib is to weak to have any chance without helping all our classes to XP.

As for the situation with Shelter. This will be sort out, investigated and we will do actions if neccesairy, but this wil be done ingame, NOT public.

If you ever have problems with players, PM their GM first, cause most GM`s are decent and will help and find out whats wrong. no need in taking it public with names and all.

____________________________________________

Shivadur - Founder and RvR Commander of Ilfirin-Arda

 

[old.Demerzel]

-When specced right the have evade good enough to barely be hit

Rouges dont have any spec line that effects defence, besides ra Dodger.

 

[AbPoon]

Re: the facts...

Originally posted by Shelter

tanking shades...: we all know that a shade can tank if he got a BT as backup, but my shield BM can tank 3 orange or 2 orange and a red mob with a warden and a healer as backup, in a pb group

Your the only tank in your realm gifted with the ability to duel wield and you pass this up to use a shield? and you call a NS usless? hmmmmmm

 

[Chameleon]

Rouges dont have any spec line that effects defence, besides ra Dodger.

True, but with the right speccing and enough +dex, the post-evade moves allow some very nice stuns which mean you benefit by much more than just evading the blow.

So often people say things about ns's that are so off the mark (not in response to your post above Demerzel). Some truths about well specced ns's that know how to play their character:

We don't take hits well, but then we dont get hit half as much. Have a tank and an ns in the group and on average, they will take the same number of hits points, albeit a tank = 5 hits at 50hp's each and an ns = 2 at 125hp's each. It doesnt take more mana to heal an ns, the healer just has to stay awake and do it quicker. I experience this from the ns and mentalist (healing specced) point of view.

We hold aggro much better than tanks. When in a group with 2 tanks at least 3 or 4 levels above me, it is always them that lose their mob and have to chase it to our healer/pbae'r. I don't recall ever losing aggro in this way.

We hit harder than tanks our own level and even many levels above. In particular, the PA chain is often the ONLY thing that will pull a mob of a healer, even if the tanks are several levels higher. Also on single pulls, with lots of melee class hitting, normal attack styles will taunt most of the time.

We know when to take aggro and when not to take aggro. We have detaunt and use it when we need to!

We spend most of our time in rvr scouting ahead of the main group informing others of where the enemies are, how many,etc. We do like to group, but dont often get asked or are refused when we do ask.

As you get to high 30's/low 40's the NS becomes a significantly better fighter (how much of this is my spec and how much is generally for ns's, i am not sure) and should be regarded as tanks, who will kill the mobs the quickest imho.

On a general note though, I read someones line, something like "why should i invite an ns and accept lower xp". Well, I don't think this is an ns issue really, but more about groups generally and personality. I'm not sure ive ever had a 'perfect group'. There are always people who are a class or level that arent ideal, but you invite them anyway cos they seem nice/obviously want to xp/grouped you before and you have a space at the time. How can you enjoy the game if you don't play it this way? Maybe that's why ive been level 42 for 6 weeks or so and only 2.5 bubs, but it was a good laugh still and we all got some xp. Chill out, help others in your realm and stop seeing people for the class they are ALL the time.

 

[the_smurflord]

Three golden rules I've learnt the hard way to get a group when getting my infil up to lvl 50.

1) Be polite to people, and stop using 1337 speak. m8 and plz puts a lot of people off.

2) Make plenty friends and contacts, by being a nice person and a pleasure to group with. Then they ask you to join not the other way around.

3) If you cannot get a group, make one. Be more active than waiting for a pre-made group to fall into your lap.

These equally apply to all classes in all realms, but especially to rogue classes as people's ignorance and preconceptions can count heavily against them.

 

[Chameleon]

Yep, make your own groups. It's often the only way to get xp.

 

[Whandall]

@Tzee: you also have some PIE?

 

[belth]

Originally posted by old.Demerzel


Rouges dont have any spec line that effects defence, besides ra Dodger.

Why do yellow/orange con mobs then hit me rarely when I solo without any kind of buffs? It's not the BT-procs on my weapons as they are rare, but the styles I use... Knowing what styles give what helps defense also, I have nearly 50% evade rate on yellows 1v1, no Dodger and almost 200 dex, 171 qui. With the dumb choice of garrote, they hit me twice as many times...

 

[g0ldenbone]

a wee bit (well totally) off topic..

How many times have you seen the word rogue mispelled.. every time I see it now I cringe

 

[old.Demerzel]

yes i know shades can evade, ive watched an ns solo red pookas

 

[Alkoran]

Akai: I'm what is apperently called a "first generation shade" I've been here since release, still only lvl 38, but I don't really mind since I very rarely solo and I've never really been powerleveled.
I've gotta say the fact that there are still people who won't group shades really surprises me. I mean appart from the obvious fact that out realm doesn't have enough RvR active stealthers, I can't believe that people still haven't reallised that shades acctually do stuff in a group!!
I think it's mostly on account of the Perfect Group Plague which is just lame. There is no class that is required in every group for it to work!! The fun is in taking what you have and making it in to the most INTERESTING killing machine you can. We can all sit here and repeat the same style combo till we lvl, but what the hell would be the point of getting the lvl then?!
The Perfect Group idea sucks!!
Shades Rule!! (Elves too) (gimped in PvE? Oh someone shoulda told me before I soloed that yellow in three hits, or stunned that purple for half the battle)
...oh and if they say "we don't want any shades" just say "that's ok I don't think I want to join anymore" 'cos believe me you really don't.

Wow that was long........I'm gonna go eat food