Shelter says, "u arnt good for anything"

[old.Aragone]

i com home log on my alt shade hoping to get um xp.
so i go to corus mines hoping to get a grp the first grp i find says they are full only 6 ppl there....
so i stelth to go down to pit half way down on a platou i find another grp with 7 members inn it
( Brottorn, Fellow, Burr, Sibylla, Nipple, Abominabl, Shelter) most from well known guilds in hib.
sorry but think names are needed here.

You say, "can i join plz?"
You say, "plz"
Shelter says, "sry no what we ned is a bard"
You say, "but you alredy have a bard"
Sibylla says, "we need 2"
Shelter says, "well if you can sing for end u can join..."
You say, "bah ile go if you get a bard ok ?"
waits 3 mins
You say, "hello plz can i join til you find a bard ?"
Shelter says, "u arnt good for anything"

no other replyes after that.

i wanne know how thes guilds can tolerate this and how the other players in the grp could just let them descriminate another player like that.
and i know that alot of other shades and rangers get this every day ive had it befor but this was just to much this cind of behaviour should not be tolerated in a game like this where the only way to rely get xp is in a grp and i surly hope that the gm's of the guilds witch thes players are in could talk to them about how to act arounde other players.
how would you feal if another player did this to you ?

uke: on ppl that are like that.


all spelling mistakes should be put aside and not commented caus i know i spell like pooo.

 

[Flimgoblin]

lern tu spel (sorry couldn't resist)

All stealther classes get that kinda treatment - despite the fact they can taunt for a PBAoE group, or add in as much damage as a blademaster in a normal group...

If they already had three nightshades then fair enough... or if you've only specced CS and stealth and nothing else

But that's just bad education.

Incidentally there's no rule saying 'Thou shalt invite until thou hast 8 members!'

They might have just wanted to group by themselves - maybe they're long time friends and don't want a stranger joining them. Perhaps you've offended one of their guildmates... there's a fair few explanations for it. That said the reason they gave you was none of these, and was quite insulting. "We're doing fine as seven, thanks." would have been better if it was.

 

[Novamir]

thats very lame

if i need to reject anyone because they are useless, i usually lie so they don't feel bad

but seriously, 2 bards is overkill, he would have been better taking the shade because of high damage.

btw was it a pbaoe group? and what levels were they compared to you?

aragone ur spelling still sux

 

[Alrindel]

how would you feal if another player did this to you ?

Well, how do you think I felt? How do you think I feel now in RvR standing at Ligen like a noob intoning "50 ranger lfg?" Did you go out of your way to make room for rogues in your exp groups when you were leveling your Aragone? Do you make room for them in your RvR groups when you head out to Emain?

It's been like this since DAoC opened, and whining about it won't change anything. If you want a high level stealther, either get your guild and friends to powerlevel you, or be prepared to solo more than you ever had to with your hero. Or, if you want to exp in Coruscating Mines, get together with a couple more shades and make a group - several times, Sulk, Whandall and Kiro (all 40+ nightshades from SD) got together to exp in the pit at Corus. Not only did they get great experience, but you should have heard them laughing on guild chat as they turned away all those people who saw them bringing down mobs as fast as they could pull them and started begging and pleading to join in.

 

[Tyka]

Well said alrindel

AND!!

/SALUTE to all nightshades that dont whine.

but still that "u arnt good for anything" comment was kind of harsh.

 

[Cloak_]

I have a NS and i moan

 

[iziz]

<iziz smirks>
and so the 2nd generation stealthers begin to learn...

 

[old.Tzeentch]

you mean 3rd izi

 

[Elric IA]

Aragone

You should really have a word in-game rather than washing dirty linen in public (I am Shelter's GM) as there are always two sides to every story.

I wont make any comment here either way and wait your /send in game.

 

[-chancer-]

3rd or 4th generation stealthers now


as much as i hate the "list" at least you can get a group that way otherwise its solo and ive bar 4 or 5 level's solo'd till 40 so its not impossible


oh and 3 archer's grouping can chain red's with only end downtime

 

[Zill]

Not even I can ever recall being told to sod off by a group member because I wasn't 'good for anything', although I was told plently of times 'sorry no room' (even though there was). And I thought you Hibbies were suppose to be good to each other too.

Btw grats on lvl 50 Alrindel.

 

[Feldegast]

Well as been said every group has the right to choose who they invite even if it was well hars to thro "ur useless" in your face

(even tho its true, Aragone =P )

 

[Whandall]

If i open a post for everytime i hear something like that id already be an earther

We already had so many threads about that. Ppl only want to make perfect groups for exp/rvr....

Well why do you think is my main char only lvl 42,5 yet?

The only way to get to 50 with a stalker class fast is if you have friends who pwlevel you or you have a permanent exp group.

But do you really want to get to 50 asap at al costs? Enjoy your way to 50 and take some time(i know its hard sometimes)

 

[old.Kerosene]

Originally posted by old.Aragone

You say, "can i join plz?"
You say, "plz"

plz... grr.. that would be enough reason for me to tell you to sling yer 'ook.

 

[old.Demerzel]

Problem is that its true.

uber in pve (like warden, palla ect) = gimps in rvr
uber in rvr (stealthers) = gimps in pve

(oh am i gonna get flamed for this one )

 

[bister]

They needed another bard instead of uber damage? One can only assume the first bard was teh sux then. What to do, what to do? Why not put them all on the looong stealther's black list. "Sorry, 3 months and 4 days ago you turned me down in an xp group and called me useless, so... no RP for j00, traitor!"

 

[Cuthervaen]

Well problem in most xp groups is people are very focused on classes and levels to make the "best xp" and would often make much better xp if they'd just get a clue.

Did a bit of "xping" today with two level 40 friends in CM, and really had enough to witness to get a laugh for one week.

Grouped a level 47 Eldritch, he just states "bah I can solo these" seeign what we gonna pull, ok I start chainpulling cause I can fight these without end so no need to pause, then he feels it's maybe bad xp and pulls one for himself at the same time.

Bit later "help me", I'm ooe can't taunt, he dies, he gets pissed off and degroups.

5 mins later we get a death message from him soloing near.

More minutes later (didn't count cause this chain pulling required so few attention we could actually chat quite allright) my two friends ding 40.5. Not counting numerous request from people who conned orange to my friend for us to stop what we doing at once and come ress them cause they didn't bother to group a healer before they came there.

So what's the point, certainly didn't do great average xp on the full length he played. Regular fast pulling with no death for seemingly mediocre xp can sum to much better overall gain. And as I said he still got time to ress, go totally AFK in the process and sit to regain mana with hardly a thanks.

And with a shade in group only drawback is the shade might die more than a tank, he certainly can dish as much damage as anyone, just can't take it. Where's the xp hit for the rest of the group?

I remember issues at the beginning of release when people expected us to group 4 yes 4 stealthers in group and I still think it's too much. But group with 1 or 2 of them works very well imo.

Most of the case bad xp and group wipes comes from human stupidity, not class balance or levels (as long as it stays in reasonnable range).

 

[old.Demerzel]

And with a shade in group only drawback is the shade might die more than a tank, he certainly can dish as much damage as anyone, just can't take it. Where's the xp hit for the rest of the group?

Im gonna play a rouge on pvp so i know why ppl dont gonna want me

1. bad at takeing damage: more healing=more mana use =more downtime.
2. dies easyly: downtime couse of ressing, ress sick ect. Also verry dangerous if 1 member of a group dies in a bad situations, often causes death of other group members.

 

[Envenom2]

when i exped with my shade i used a shield sure as hell blocked evaded most of the time at fins i probley had 1 or 2 deaths at fins but nothing serious and i was a main tank in a few groups .

if you want a stealther that bad you'll stick it out and ul get 50 if u aint got paitence u wont.

Paitence is something you need as any stealther paitence to wait for the right moment to strike.Sometimes u can be wondering around in emain for 20mins or so lookin for someone to kill

 

[Feldegast]

Of course a rouge can be a good tank, get him a bubble and he'll do just fine. What I see many NS's do is dish out the "phat dmg" in one whoop. That will ofcourse cause great aggro on you.

NS's outdamage many tanks but since they are not supposed to tank (cept for in a pbaoe grp) they need to controll that killer instinct. If they do all will be good.

 

[Envenom2]

o yes 1 of the most important things an NS should have in his quick bar is detaunt it will save ur ass and save downtime when a tank gets the agro

 

[Xandax]

Originally posted by Cuthervaen
<snip>
Regular fast pulling with no death for seemingly mediocre xp can sum to much better overall gain. And as I said he still got time to ress, go totally AFK in the process and sit to regain mana with hardly a thanks.
<snip>

This is so true.
Many people just look at the exp. per mob instead of exp. over time without much hassle or downtime.
Seening this clearly again now when exp.ing in Spindelhalla in Midgard.
Often a medium exp. yeild is better then the high one, because you can pull 2-3-4 times per medium compared to high, and nobody dies.

 

[old.Icebreaker]

I give a shit about XP.I just play the Game for Fun, thats the Reason why i never get pissed or moan about ppl in the Game.

If i do,then iam just kidding



-----------------------------------------------------------
Icebreaker <Celtic Fist> Rescued by Tzeentch

 

[Killgorde]

I have never had a problem taking in a stealther in an exp group. I've always operated a first come first in policy on grouping, irrespective of class (within reason re the balance of the group ofc). Likewise the way I play the game demands that I need at least 1 stealther (2 or 3 in a 2FG situation is better) to provide accurate recon in RvR.

However

One aspect of the "stealther can't get an exp group scenario" to bear in mind, and this will appear inflammatory to some of you:

How many stealthers do you all know who popped 50 then buggered off to emain/gorge and do their own thing and were hardly ever seen again (except high on the rp tables? Who wanted exp groups with more "team-orientated" players to help them get to 50, then gave little or nothing back in return to those who helped them get there?

And is it just an odd coincidence that hunter/scout/rangers who never bothered before all of a sudden want groups? Or does See Hidden have a bearing on that? Or am I being a tad too cynical? Any names spring to mind?

It was never a question to me of damage output when exping. It was question of whether the guy you admitted would ever be seen again to repay the other members of the group in the end-game (RvR). And there are a lot of stealthers out there who haven't exactly covered themselves in glory in this regard post popping 50.

There are some great team-playing stealthers out there (Attle and Zilly spring immediately to mind) who really benefit others in the combat arena. But I think we've all seen a lot of the "help me exp but once I reach 50 the rest of you can sod off because the reason I rolled this char is so I can sneak around on my own soloing and rp farming" types in the past.

It's a matter of give and take. I've seen a helluva lot of taking in the past and not much giving back by some stealthers. And you all probably have too.

 

[Cuthervaen]

Well I'll play a stealther on PvP, and I'm really set on this choice because I already played a healing class, a tank, and it leaves only stealther and caster as "new" to explore.

I know I'll have a hard time finding a guild / groups but well better take my time to level and not regret my choice later.

Thing is mid SBs (dunno abotu infils) maybe have a little easier time speccing their SB to be "group friendly", as the shadowzerk is the most group oriented assassin spec. Not much of a solo assassin with fast undetected kills, but great potential to detect incoming stealthers and pop them out of stealth before they can PA someone in the group.

And when you think of it, though certainly weaker 1vs1, the Nightshade is even better at this role, seeing that he can easily unstealth 2 agressors by DD shouting one out of stealth and engaging the other. Of course he better have group support then . With see hidden and its increased range, he could even sit right in the middle of his group and just cast his feeble but fast castable DDs at anything stealthed coming too close.

As for xping in hibernia, there are too few casting / ercher mobs to fully show the potential of the nightshades. But those hunting Eidolons (quite few cause they're tricky mobs) know what I mean, a NS casts faster than any mob (or player bar quickcast) can cast or shoot and can keep them totally from shooting / casting until they coem in range.

 

[Alrindel]

And is it just an odd coincidence that hunter/scout/rangers who never bothered before all of a sudden want groups? Or does See Hidden have a bearing on that? Or am I being a tad too cynical? Any names spring to mind?

Er, well, yes, hardly an "odd coincidence", that was the whole point of See Hidden. The archer class was originally designed by the creators of the game to be a solo RvR sniper and after much wailing and gnashing of teeth from the other classes, that ability was stomped right out of them (with nothing much put back to replace it). Archers now need groups, not because they are whiny spoiled brats who have had their toys taken away (even if some act that way), but because the rules of the game have been changed by its makers.

 

[Killgorde]

Point is Al...if peeps want to go soloing rp once they pop 50, do they have a God given right to expect exp groups to welcome them with open arms prior to that?

Hope you understand where I'm coming from.

 

[bister]

Ok, this is going well. But let's turn up the heat a little more still. Flicker, little flames!

Killgorde:
Couldn't it be the other way around? "You turned me down again and again, I saw 3 generations of class X go to 40+ while I had to solo low cons to get there myself, and you expect me to group with you now?!"

Assassin xp grouping:
All assassins know they have to control aggro by detaunt and by putting restraints on the use of styles. That's a lesson they learn fast. Assassins also know they can't tank purples well since they have to solo more than most. But it's not just up to the assassins, or they will still draw aggro because they outdamage most other meleers even when they cripple themselves. For instance, far from all heavy tanks realise that their dmg output isn't very impressive and that they should lay off their gimp dmg styles and focus on taunting exclusively, because being the meat shield is their primary job in a group, not dealing damage. When everyone knows their job in a group well, regardless of group composition, xp tends to flow.

On xp grouping in general:
There is a lack of discipline in DAoC xp grouping and it hurts all classes in lvling. Where are the /assist's, the designated main tanks, designated CC'ers, predictable mezz sequences, target calling, well-timed heals, etc etc, the things everyone is supposed to know and comply to in certain other MMORPGs or you get kicked out. In this environment, when a lot is left to chance, the ideal group is a bunch of heavy tanks and a couple of chars who can heal+mez+rez and only that. You need the heavy tanks because lighter tanks will die easily since you can't trust the heavy tanks and healers to work around their damage output. You want more than one healer+rezzer because the other one will often die and you need someone to rez the rezzer. No wonder stealthers and some casters don't get a group easily, because the groups can't handle what these can bring. They might not even be able to handle what they can bring themselves.

On RvR grouping: Although it may be true that some stealthers don't group well, it is also true that many non-stealthers don't know how to group with a stealther very well. Stealthers are somehow expected to make sure the group rakes in RP's en masse, but not all groups are prepared to adapt to and work around the stealthers and the way they operate. There are things stealthers can do and they do it well, and then there are things they can't do. Rule no 1 when grouping with a stealther is patience. Patience made the stealther lvl, patience gave him his RP's. You want him to scout, take out enemy stealthers, pick people off in encounters or something? Give him a little time for starters and listen to him occasionally. You just wanna zerg around erratically with no real plan? Ditch the stealther, just get a bard type for speed and tell everyone to stop thinking so hard.

 

[Alrindel]

Originally posted by Killgorde
Point is Al...if peeps want to go soloing rp once they pop 50, do they have a God given right to expect exp groups to welcome them with open arms prior to that?

Nobody in the game has a "God given right" to a group, in PvE or RvR. And nobody should get upset about being turned down by a group, a guild, a raiding party, an alliance: people can play with whom they like. Or not.

But you seem to be swinging too far the opposite way, suggesting that stealthers should NOT be grouped because as a class, they are selfish, arrogant and ungrateful and they will not return the courtesy. Which seems kind of extreme.

Hope you understand where I'm coming from.

You seem sort of suprisingly vehement about it, actually. I guess you have had very very bad experiences with rogues in DAoC.

 

[Lethania]

Originally posted by Novamir

but seriously, 2 bards is overkill, he would have been better taking the shade because of high damage.

Nova! havn't you forgotten me and gargo! ther eis nothign wrong with to bards!
But thoose ppl kind of sucked :/ But then again you cant force ppl to invite you