Sent this to Mythic:

[Accupuncture]

Im for all the big changes in RVR when you have people like I had the other night when I logged on for a bit of RVR fun. Stood on a bridge just looking what was going on and 1 fella came past with a group and /y Yet more Alb stealther adds.

I for one would be glad if people like that no longer played the game and his attitude is one of the reasons it was changed.

If you want to be that type of player sod off to Counterstrike and let people like me who just want to have fun play.

 

[Ilum]

People will go where the action is. Currently there aren't enough people to have action everywhere. The island will provide a meeting point and instant action/arpee so it will be very interesting to most people, yes. It will even draw the people who prefer the frontier battles because the frontier war isn't constant enough and there are times nothing is happening there. Instead of trying to start up a battle in the Frontier, by trying to take a tower or keep, it will be very tempting for them to join the ongoing battle on the island. The Frontier will become less and less active.

In the end, you'll -have to- go to the island to see an enemy and there won't be any Frontier battle anymore.

See: old Emain. See: what is happening at Brynja Bridge atm.

Population on the server will drop even more if there is no active Frontier and "just" the island to play on because a large part of the population just won't find this sort of game interesting enough.

So your point of view is this:

- The majority of players enjoy New Frontiers like it is.
- The people who just want roaming fights and equal number fights are a small minority.
- But the population is stretch thin exactly to the point, where the entire action in New Frontier RvR depends on that small minority. If the minority had a choice to go elsewhere to suit their playstyle, it would ruin RvR because there wouldn't be enough players left for New Frontiers RvR to be fun.

?

 

[Elendar]

So your point of view is this:

- The majority of players enjoy New Frontiers like it is.
- The people who just want roaming fights and equal number fights are a small minority.
- But the population is stretch thin exactly to the point, where the entire action in New Frontier RvR depends on that small minority. If the minority had a choice to go elsewhere to suit their playstyle, it would ruin RvR because there wouldn't be enough players left for New Frontiers RvR to be fun.

?

it seems more to be the majority of players would enjoy roaming and equal number fights more than nf
but this would ruin it for the few people that like camping keeps as there would be noone to defend against them? not entirely sure where he loses out

 

[Esselinithia]

The RVR Population plumeted comment is very very laughable, before NF you had many people doing PVE since NF most of them are in RVR. Yes, server population loses three kinds of people: Cheaters (radar bans), PVE people who don't like everyone RVRing, and high RR groups who ruined the game for almost everyone else.

 

[sedde]

Question concerning Gazon + others :

How many players ( l33t and not ) wrote on their sig before going this thing ?

" Givf Back old frontiers zone and i renew any time ... "

That explains just much thats the point.

End.

 

[Esselinithia]

- But the population is stretch thin exactly to the point, where the entire action in New Frontier RvR depends on that small minority. If the minority had a choice to go elsewhere to suit their playstyle, it would ruin RvR because there wouldn't be enough players left for New Frontiers RvR to be fun.

First of all, if you check with who the number of people actually RVRing is increased for most realms, but there is a sharp drop for high RR people. Often you need high RR leaders. NF was a big nerf to stop these high RRs dominating RVR so much that noone else has a chance. It led to the point, where overpopulated realms started dominating. Why? Because an overpopulated realm has more players for the same amount of killable enemies: So maximum same amount of high rr opted groups. An underpopulated realms gank group can face more non opted enemies and rise in RRs quicker. It is very basic math. And since these groups were so much strongerthey easily dominated RVR. Without them you had no real chance.

Now, RvR is more open to all, and people aren't roaming. Why? Is it impossible? Is it impossible to have even underwater roaming fun? You need an island for it? No. But because the easy targets of these groups are people with low RR and they have a better choice. Extra powers of high RR groups are less dominating, they can find a fight they can join, and they have a good defense, yes it is hard to win against a big zerg with an fg. Yet there is plenty of things these high RR people can do: like leading frontier BGs. People need experienced leaders. And from this relatively small number of high RR people some left, some still roam, some would roam if see more motivation, who would remain to lead? Imho some people from the current NF RVR armies would learn and gain experience with time. But some think without good leaders they would be farmed by passing by high RR groups. Who knows?

 

[Gazon]

So your point of view is this:

- The majority of players enjoy New Frontiers like it is.
- The people who just want roaming fights and equal number fights are a small minority.
- But the population is stretch thin exactly to the point, where the entire action in New Frontier RvR depends on that small minority. If the minority had a choice to go elsewhere to suit their playstyle, it would ruin RvR because there wouldn't be enough players left for New Frontiers RvR to be fun.

?

No that's not my point. I'm saying the people who just want roaming fights are the population that is most active in RvR. They are an important driving force in RvR. If they go and take the battle to a lone island, many others who are interested in arpee but not necessarily only want to play roaming battles will follow too because the island is a source of arpee and will be very active. The joining of this second group will drain the frontier too much.

( from other post I once made: )

Arpees are very interesting to everybody. Arpees give you a more powerfull character in RvR and PvE. So you can play and win sometimes. Arpees are an insentive to play in RvR. duh.

I don't see the RvR population as being devided into 2 groups. There are 3 groups imo:

1. The ones who want arpee to help themselves get better at their favorite fights: grp vs grp: Top of the food-chain. Rather not come near a keep. A minority as you say. The opted group is also the fastest and most efficiënt way to farm rp. The two reïnforce eachother: more rp = more wins = more rp.
2. The ones who love the concept of a massive Realm war and want to participate in large scale battles but cba to put in alot of time or to specialize in rp farming by optimizing, organizing and playing in an opted group. The casual player. Can't compete in grp vs grp. Prob a large group of players. But not very active in RvR. Wants to be able to join a battle when he wants to.
3. The ones who want both: get as much rp as possible, in an opted group or in zerg RvR to be able to also survive, contribute and pwn in both the roaming and the large scale battles.

This 3rd group is the largest group imo (maybe not even a majority).
As I said, Group 3 will be spending alot of time on the island because they too want action and arpee, and this drains the frontier. And when they have had enough rp and want to test their new abilities in mass RvR for a change, they will find the Frontier as good as empty, nothing large scale to be seen, keeps only defended by NPC's... (except maybe for a once in a blue moon relic raid)

So group 2 and 3 will lose out.

I don't guess this, I know this: old Emain.

 

[Elendar]

This 3rd group is the largest group imo (maybe not even a majority).
As I said, Group 3 will be spending alot of time on the island because they too want action and arpee, and this drains the frontier. And when they have had enough rp and want to test their new abilities in mass RvR for a change, they will find the Frontier as good as empty, nothing large scale to be seen, keeps only defended by NPC's... (except maybe for a once in a blue moon relic raid)

So group 2 and 3 will lose out.

I don't guess this, I know this: old Emain.

if group 3 spend more time on the island, thats probably because they'd enjoy it more
not before nf keep seiges where pretty rare, as people found open field more interesting

 

[Gazon]

if group 3 spend more time on the island, thats probably because they'd enjoy it more
not before nf keep seiges where pretty rare, as people found open field more interesting

Read. They would enjoy it too, no doubt. But they -also- want keep sieges and there wouldn't be many or any. No reason to throw the second away because alot of people like the first.

Why were keepsieges rare: because it was boring PvE to take a keep. Defenders never arrived in time so no one bothered. For a keep siege to happen you needed a group to take a keep and wait there patiently till the previous owners bothered to get there, if they ever did. Not very interesting either. (I know I had a blast when attackers did show up...) NF changed all this with the new mobility of porting.

 

[Ilum]

First of all, if you check with who the number of people actually RVRing is increased for most realms, but there is a sharp drop for high RR people. Often you need high RR leaders. NF was a big nerf to stop these high RRs dominating RVR so much that noone else has a chance. It led to the point, where overpopulated realms started dominating. Why? Because an overpopulated realm has more players for the same amount of killable enemies: So maximum same amount of high rr opted groups. An underpopulated realms gank group can face more non opted enemies and rise in RRs quicker. It is very basic math. And since these groups were so much strongerthey easily dominated RVR. Without them you had no real chance.

Now, RvR is more open to all, and people aren't roaming. Why? Is it impossible? Is it impossible to have even underwater roaming fun? You need an island for it? No. But because the easy targets of these groups are people with low RR and they have a better choice. Extra powers of high RR groups are less dominating, they can find a fight they can join, and they have a good defense, yes it is hard to win against a big zerg with an fg. Yet there is plenty of things these high RR people can do: like leading frontier BGs. People need experienced leaders. And from this relatively small number of high RR people some left, some still roam, some would roam if see more motivation, who would remain to lead? Imho some people from the current NF RVR armies would learn and gain experience with time. But some think without good leaders they would be farmed by passing by high RR groups. Who knows?

To say that high realm ranks are worse off now is completely untrue. New Frontiers has made high realm rank's better compared to the low realm ranks than before. Thanks to the new RA system. The keeps, warmap and such have made it easier to zerg however. And it's harder to fight bigger numbers - but then again, you also have better tools since NF arrived in a high realm rank group. When not inside a keep, the casual players seem to die faster and easier than before in my opinion. The only difference is now they get back into RvR faster, and there is more safe keeps to hide inside (untill they stick their nose out and get 2shot by a caster).

Read. They would enjoy it too, no doubt. But they -also- want keep sieges and there wouldn't be many or any. No reason to throw the second away because alot of people like the first.

Why were keepsieges rare: because it was boring PvE to take a keep. Defenders never arrived in time so no one bothered. For a keep siege to happen you needed a group to take a keep and wait there patiently till the previous owners bothered to get there, if they ever did. Not very interesting either. (I know I had a blast when attackers did show up...) NF changed all this with the new mobility of porting.

None of the mechanics of New Frontiers would be lost with an island. And, as long as you have the realm war oriented people on both sides, they can fight eachother and have their fun.

 

[Gazon]

And, as long as you have the realm war oriented people on both sides, they can fight eachother and have their fun.

There won't be enough people in the frontier at the same time to make it interesting because the population will be split over the frontier and the island. You know it's true.

 

[Gazon]

What about this:

Don't let the kills you make on the island be rewarded with any arpee. Nada. Zero. Only the pure fun of roaming fights would be found there.
This would make it uninteresting for the people who want arpee and only the true enthousiasts of roaming battles would find a home... a small minority I think.

Is that a good idea?

Or what about drastically increasing the arpees you get from successfully defending/taking a keep. You would need to do kills in or in the area of the keep or help with trebbing/ramming/etc so you would not be able to just stand and leech.
More people would fight in the area of keepsieges, in the zerg or roaming around it, because of the arpees.

Would you like keep battles more then?

But I guess that would be food for a new thread.

 

[Tristessa]

I say just take away all frontier keep guards, letting players freely enter enemy realms, and let the slaughter begin

 

[Saggy]

What about this:

Don't let the kills you make on the island be rewarded with any arpee. Nada. Zero. Only the pure fun of roaming fights would be found there.
This would make it uninteresting for the people who want arpee and only the true enthousiasts of roaming battles would find a home... a small minority I think.

Is that a good idea?

Just make a separate RA-systems for both the Island and the NF Would be plain stupid to be forced to do keep RvR up to RR9 (yes, that's what needed for the most essential RAs in many cases) before entering the Island - not because you can't win, because winning would remain very hard even if you keep on winning. Same for the other way around - I dont want people to get advantage on NF by doing RvR on some Island. I would even want to redo both RA and MA systems and make RAs to work just in RvR and MAs just in PvE

Or what about drastically increasing the arpees you get from successfully defending/taking a keep. You would need to do kills in or in the area of the keep or help with trebbing/ramming/etc so you would not be able to just stand and leech.
More people would fight in the area of keepsieges, in the zerg or roaming around it, because of the arpees.

Would you like keep battles more then?

If I'm not mistaken its the abilities ToA bringed to game that are keeping people away from the keeps, not the amount of RPs you get there. Personally I think that ToA totally (that's 100%) ruined keep RvR, open field is just and just bearable. The day group #3 starts doing opted keep RvR (the very same day when group #2 would move back to PvE, again) you'll see the reason for it. The advantage you get by being organised and opted is way bigger in keep RvR than in open field.

In the other hand I've seen no problems with roaming and finding 1fg vs 1fg fights, actually the opposite - it has never been this easy and fun as its now. Its the fights that suck - thanks to ToA

 

[Luperyn]

i like that but, wudnt rvr be emptier then it is now. we need more ppl. imo cluster up english servers ;/

 

[Tristessa]

i like that but, wudnt rvr be emptier then it is now. we need more ppl. imo cluster up english servers ;/

Would be great if they could do that with just the RvR zones at least, though it's probably more of a hassle then they're willing to go into The idea of fighting some fellow alb/prydwen mates with me excal/hibbie sounds fun

 

[gervaise]

None of the above will matter soon. The RR1s will be able to take out the gank groups on the island. They come ....

Average RPs for the top 25 non-Gaheris players for new classes (in the US):

1. Warlock - 1,064,422
2. Bainshee - 678,674
3. Vampiir - 503,412
4. Heretic - 419,273
5. Valkyre - 154,270

Just so the meaning is clear. The average rp's of the top 25 warlocks is over 1m. By comparison Heretics are considered puny! Valkyrie's - their time will come when they get to RR5). And Cats has been out - 3 months ...

You can pull top 10, top 50 etc They come. Make sure you are fully buffed.

 

[Gandelf]

Getting back to the idea of groups roaming around looking for fights....

I believe that partly the problem why this doesn't happen so much is because players can now port to keeps, instead of having to run to them. In the old frontiers a lot of the open battles happened when enemy groups encountered each other en-route to a keep. Now, however, as soon as a keep/tower is under attack, 90% of the time you can port to that location.

What needs to happen is the removal of portal stones from the frontiers so that players have to use their legs again. Fair enough, this would slow down things considerably and be annoying to a lot of players, but I reckon it would increase the chance of encountering enemy groups who are also running to keeps.... this would then foster more open battles, away from keeps and towers.

 

[Ilum]

I heard rumours that this was implemented now...give me some free subs as reward for my great idea imo!

If not I can't afford a comeback

 

[Straef]

I heard rumours that this was implemented now...give me some free subs as reward for my great idea imo!

If not I can't afford a comeback

Can't be true, they wouldn't actually listen to the EU players

 

[Chimaira]

This is pretty scary

Ilum m8er

 

[Talsar]

<grins> I think that it is amazing that Mythic "does" listen to customer feedback, back in Feb i sent them ideas for a "guild bank" and also requested a better interface ingame to "manage" guilds better due to XML files getting corrupted all the time.

And now we have it

 

[Straef]

I better send them my idea's of mercs getting quad hit then!

 

[CuddleBunny!]

I better send them my idea's of mercs getting quad hit then!

i better send the men in white coats my idea's of picking you up then!

ps: this is fooking scary ilum

 

[Martok]

this is scarey, and ilum get a job and come back

 

[toxii]

he has a job ..

 

[Kinag]

weird tbh, you should get some kind of payment for that.

 

[Ame]

weird tbh, you should get some kind of payment for that.

Agramon is a payment?



Or wait.. no it isn't.. its the reason RvR has died.

 

[Glacier]

Agramon is a payment?



Or wait.. no it isn't.. its the reason RvR has died.

Or, It's simply the best thing since OF?

 

[Downanael]

This is such ripoff