second time lucky n00bs?

[shilak]

Originally posted by Amadon
Hibs are outnumbered worse, doesnt provide justification for us relic raiding u at 5am. you make it sound like Hibernia relies on Albion to defend it's frontier.. I'm not sure where you get this idea from.. Hibernia only relies on Albion to provide rps which Midgard is too scared to do

*ROFL* How on earth did you work that one out? The current level of active RvR capable players on excalibur is in the following order, Albs have the most by far, then Hibs and finally Mids. You cant trust the figures on Duskwave as they dont indicate the true state of things at the moment. Mids do a call to arms and everyone 40+ goes to our frontier, we have around 100ppl, one hibbie alliance gathers up people to do a RR and they have around 100ppl also, but there are still another 50-100 hibbies emain and the rest of hibbieland, and the albs have double that.

And you do seem to forget that PvP hit midgard very hard, we lost at least 100 players with level 50 characters to it and mostly those with good RvR experience, you only have to look at the number of top 100 middie chars with 0 rps last week.

Currently, the Midgard population peaks at about 400ppl online, out of 2000+ on server, whats the population for hibbes/albs at its peak? 600 hibbies and 1000 albs at a guess.

And while you dont ask the albs to defend your frontier, explain how a RR force of 50ppl (I doubt we could raise a larger one without spy accounts finding out) will get past the milegate in emain without the alb zerg making a move to farm it? And then get back once everyone in the game knows that a relic has been removed from Dagda by the middies?

Be realistic, 'primetime' raids for midgard arent going to be successful as we currently lack both the numbers and experience of RRs to make it work.

 

[Balrog]

this is 'teh' flame thread

 

[Amadon]

Originally posted by Runolaz
As I said in the post above we only needed to seek justification from our members, and could not care less what you think.

so don't read my posts..

I lasted from 06.30 - 09.30 CET, but yes it will be much harder...

aye... 5.30 GMT where I live... sue me for half an hour...

And why should we worry about this...

I could give you many reasons, but carry on believing you're so superior to everyone else that other's opinion's don't matter.. I'm sure it will bring much fulfillment to your life

Me? I care about everyone, and their opinions..
I think you may end up ruining the game for lots of people, that's why I post..
More to hopefully prevent something like this from becoming common occurrence than to belittle you or anyone else (the blatant flames are intended to prevent my posts being too serious more than anything else)

 

[old.Nol]

Originally posted by Jarrax


Hmm, pretty sure I haven't defended the actions of those on the RR, or condemned them either. Maybe because I have realised that the server is up 24/7, that people all pay to play this game, that people play on this server from many different timezones and that people all have differing lifestyles dictating when they can/cant play.
So what they want to do with the time online for which they are paying for, is upto them.
If all those factors means that they dont play according to your view..tough titties me ole china. Get over it. Get up at 5am, take the relics back if you feel that strongly, or organise a huge raid in what you have decided is the correct and only time to do RR's, succeed and be the "bigger" man.

FYI mate, it was midgard that started the whole "late night raids" thing is lame. This raid was not made by lateshift or different timezones. It was a deliberately planned based on the fact that they knew there would be no opposition in Hibernia. I remember NP taking everyone of our keeps for a week, not once did they lower themselves to this level.

I doubt very much if I will be able to stop Hibernia doing the same.

 

[old.Nol]

Originally posted by shilak


*ROFL* How on earth did you work that one out? The current level of active RvR capable players on excalibur is in the following order, Albs have the most by far, then Hibs and finally Mids. You cant trust the figures on Duskwave as they dont indicate the true state of things at the moment. Mids do a call to arms and everyone 40+ goes to our frontier, we have around 100ppl, one hibbie alliance gathers up people to do a RR and they have around 100ppl also, but there are still another 50-100 hibbies emain and the rest of hibbieland, and the albs have double that.

And you do seem to forget that PvP hit midgard very hard, we lost at least 100 players with level 50 characters to it and mostly those with good RvR experience, you only have to look at the number of top 100 middie chars with 0 rps last week.

Currently, the Midgard population peaks at about 400ppl online, out of 2000+ on server, whats the population for hibbes/albs at its peak? 600 hibbies and 1000 albs at a guess.

And while you dont ask the albs to defend your frontier, explain how a RR force of 50ppl (I doubt we could raise a larger one without spy accounts finding out) will get past the milegate in emain without the alb zerg making a move to farm it? And then get back once everyone in the game knows that a relic has been removed from Dagda by the middies?

Be realistic, 'primetime' raids for midgard arent going to be successful as we currently lack both the numbers and experience of RRs to make it work.

I see - so if Hib did early morning raids when we had the smallest population on the server it would have been totally justified? FYI I doubt whether a single alliance could field 100 people in Hibernia - and there are ony 2 at a push that might be able to and it would never be 100 50's

 

[Amadon]

Originally posted by shilak


*ROFL* How on earth did you work that one out? The current level of active RvR capable players on excalibur is in the following order, Albs have the most by far, then Hibs and finally Mids. You cant trust the figures on Duskwave as they dont indicate the true state of things at the moment. Mids do a call to arms and everyone 40+ goes to our frontier, we have around 100ppl, one hibbie alliance gathers up people to do a RR and they have around 100ppl also, but there are still another 50-100 hibbies emain and the rest of hibbieland, and the albs have double that.

Whatever makes you think that Excal/Midgard has a monopoly on PvP players?
Hibernia has lost alot of players to PvP too, we just don't blame everything on that.
The number of lvl 50's in hib being played by new people who got the accounts from friends is scary. We suffer the same from having lots of alts

And you do seem to forget that PvP hit midgard very hard, we lost at least 100 players with level 50 characters to it and mostly those with good RvR experience, you only have to look at the number of top 100 middie chars with 0 rps last week.

Currently, the Midgard population peaks at about 400ppl online, out of 2000+ on server, whats the population for hibbes/albs at its peak? 600 hibbies and 1000 albs at a guess.

not quite.. your perception of the numbers in Hibernia is quite far out

alot of our lvl 50's are alts, or alts of alts of alts (hi crys )

in addition, while our population may be similar to midgard's, the majority of it are low levels (< 40), and don't really factor much unfortunately in relic raids

maybe if you spent a bit less time crying about how sorry a state midgard is in due to pvp you'd realise that your realm isn't weak by any means (as evidenced by the resurgence since you got the relics - so let me guess.. you got the relics and suddenly everyone came back from PvP? right...)

And while you dont ask the albs to defend your frontier, explain how a RR force of 50ppl (I doubt we could raise a larger one without spy accounts finding out) will get past the milegate in emain without the alb zerg making a move to farm it? And then get back once everyone in the game knows that a relic has been removed from Dagda by the middies?

Be realistic, 'primetime' raids for midgard arent going to be successful as we currently lack both the numbers and experience of RRs to make it work.

fairly old tactic that I think Klazzart (the original.. not the new one) implemented first... send 1 or 2 fgs at a time through mmg while the albs are distracted by the hib zerg (yes hibs do actually come to emain and can on occasion distract the alb zerg from farming the nonexistant mid zerg)
log them out until the raid and then log them all back in..

once you have the relic, getting out is difficult, but that's the same irrespective of what realm you go to - the second the relic goes neutral all realms will flock to whichever realm it's in to try save it or intercept it

as for lacking the numbers - um.. I saw 8+ fg mids camping hmg last night.. that's bigger than most alb zergs i see in emain...

 

[shilak]

Nol, get your facts straight, this wasnt a late night raid, it was a small dawn raid starting at 6.30am CET (5.30am GMT) and finishing at 9.30am CET (8.30am GMT) on a saturday. There is a very big difference between that a and arranging a 100+ ppl for a raid starting at midnight CET (11pm GMT) and finishing at 2am CET (1am GMT) on a weeknight.

Trying to enforce so called 'primetime' raids is insane as that literally means all raids must start at 8pm CET (7am GMT) and be finished by 11pm CET (10pm GMT). Which leads to people losing the element of surprise and will just end in those with the larger numbers and/or less lag being successful, hardly the true test of tactics that RvR is meant to be.

The thing that annoys me the most is that rather than use the opportunity to get some good RvR, you feel it is better to come whine on here. The element of surprise is key to the success of most military actions, for example Pearl Harbour, September 11th or Hiroshima.

 

[old.Nol]

Originally posted by shilak
Nol, get your facts straight, this wasnt a late night raid, it was a small dawn raid starting at 6.30am CET (5.30am GMT) and finishing at 9.30am CET (8.30am GMT) on a saturday. There is a very big difference between that a and arranging a 100+ ppl for a raid starting at midnight CET (11pm GMT) and finishing at 2am CET (1am GMT) on a weeknight.

Trying to enforce so called 'primetime' raids is insane as that literally means all raids must start at 8pm CET (7am GMT) and be finished by 11pm CET (10pm GMT). Which leads to people losing the element of surprise and will just end in those with the larger numbers and/or less lag being successful, hardly the true test of tactics that RvR is meant to be.

The thing that annoys me the most is that rather than use the opportunity to get some good RvR, you feel it is better to come whine on here. The element of surprise is key to the success of most military actions, for example Pearl Harbour, September 11th or Hiroshima.

HAHAHAHAHA - OOO sorry - 6:30 makes it so much better, also makes if 5:30 in England on an englsih speaking server, it worse then raids at 2, at least at 2 o' clock there are people on the server on a weekend, there is no one on the server at 6:30. You seem to forget that it was midgard who was responsible for the flames of the original early mornig raids.

There is a reason you only get realm points from PC's, because it requires an IOTA of skill, what kind of skill do you get from raiding NPC's - Aye this was probably for the good of Midgard, but to the detriment of the game. The point is that this is a game played by more then just Midgard, and you're going a long way to ruin ot for everyone else...worse yet, you try to justify it.

I see, lots of people really died during your relic raid, thousands will be left feeling the effects of mutation due to radiation for years to come. You have the audacity to compare this to real time war, that is the saddest excuse ever.

What annoys me most, is rather then belittle it, you go ahead and condone it.

 

[shilak]

Originally posted by Amadon
Whatever makes you think that Excal/Midgard has a monopoly on PvP players?

alot of our lvl 50's are alts, or alts of alts of alts (hi crys )

in addition, while our population may be similar to midgard's, the majority of it are low levels (< 40), and don't really factor much unfortunately in relic raids

maybe if you spent a bit less time crying about how sorry a state midgard is in due to pvp you'd realise that your realm isn't weak by any means (as evidenced by the resurgence since you got the relics - so let me guess.. you got the relics and suddenly everyone came back from PvP? right...)

once you have the relic, getting out is difficult, but that's the same irrespective of what realm you go to - the second the relic goes neutral all realms will flock to whichever realm it's in to try save it or intercept it

as for lacking the numbers - um.. I saw 8+ fg mids camping hmg last night.. that's bigger than most alb zergs i see in emain...

I didnt say Midgard has a monopoly on players lost to PvP, but we have lost a higher percentage of our experienced level 50 RvRers to it. NP, CE, etc. I base my estimates on the RvR activity levels of realms that I have seen lately, and I have noticed a slight drop in hib/alb activity and huge drop in mid activity since PvP became available.

I think you will find that within all realms there are a lot of people with more than one 50.

And yes, high level people did come back from other servers once the relics were taken, 3 or 4 in the guild I belong to at least.

And no, im not trying to justify an early morning raid. Im am just trying to point out that 'this' early morning raid had a positive effect on RvR since it happened, and that a single non-primetime raid does not have to mean that every raid from here on has to be non-primetime. I also think that when the game stagnates the way it did, drastic actions need to be taken, and LFOM did just that.

Yes there were a lot of middies in our frontier the last few days, but that was a result of every alliance/guild/group in midgard and getting as many 40+ into our frontier as possible. Maybe you should try similar and see quite how many people you get, im sure it will be more than 8-10fgs.

 

[old.BJ|Bored]

grats mids keep it up.

As whoever it was said, if you cant protect your relic 24/ u dont deserve to keep it 24/7.
.

 

[Jarrax]

"Billybob NoMates, 50th season Dwarf Battle Healer (RR2)"


more importantly...Grats Billybob

 

[old.Nol]

Originally posted by shilak

And no, im not trying to justify an early morning raid. Im am just trying to point out that 'this' early morning raid had a positive effect on RvR since it happened, and that a single non-primetime raid does not have to mean that every raid from here on has to be non-primetime. I also think that when the game stagnates the way it did, drastic actions need to be taken, and LFOM did just that.

Can you tell me why the hell we should come primetime? Give us a good reason, Midgard basically botty nailed us, and you're hoping that we retain our good record so that this server does not take a dive. It BS mate, complete and utter, because if we do it, what are chances that you will do it again? Pretty damn high is my guess. If this is the kind is thing you have to do to wake up the arses in your realm, then it's no wonder you were getting beaten fair and square.

For my own part, I hope that Hibernia does it the right way, but don't expect it. Those 50 people went a long way to ruining the reputation of your realm, and the rest are aiding them by defending their actions.

 

[Amadon]

Originally posted by shilak

And no, im not trying to justify an early morning raid. Im am just trying to point out that 'this' early morning raid had a positive effect on RvR since it happened, and that a single non-primetime raid does not have to mean that every raid from here on has to be non-primetime. I also think that when the game stagnates the way it did, drastic actions need to be taken, and LFOM did just that.

Yes there were a lot of middies in our frontier the last few days, but that was a result of every alliance/guild/group in midgard and getting as many 40+ into our frontier as possible. Maybe you should try similar and see quite how many people you get, im sure it will be more than 8-10fgs.

tbh I'm glad Midgard got a relic or two, RvR was getting stale without Middies to despise

I think the problems in Midgard ran deeper than the loss of players to PvP, because I think that all realms suffered equally from PvP (this is my opinion, you're welcome to yours and I'm not going to argue about it, mid's loss was more prominent than other realms' perhaps).

Doesn't really help if we get 8-10fg's.. Mythic's software will just cause a zone crash again like last time, but not to change topic here onto another whine...

Everyone has different perspectives on the strengths of other realms, generally over emphasizing the opposite realms strengths (I don't claim to be immune). I think Midgard needed something to bring it out of it's slump, and I think there were other options available, but it's been done and I'm going home now, so that's my whine done

btw.. welcome back Midgard

 

[shilak]

FFS Nol, you think that one realm in on the server slowly fading away to nothing is a good thing for the game! LFOM did what they felt was necessary to stop that from happening, unfortunately some people didnt like what they did.

And I was meerly trying to point out that excluding a perfectly good military tactic from a WAR GAME is stupid.

If you actually took a look at the RvR situation within the GAME since the raid you would realise that far from having a detrimental effect on RvR it has actually given it a boost. I agree that constant non-primetime RRs would have a detrimental effect on the game, but this was just ONE non-primetime RR. If the game starts to stagnate, then I would hope people do take drastic steps to reverse the trend.

And yes it is an 'english' speaking server, but the majority of midgard players are NOT from GMT timezones, most of the guilds are european based as english is the second language in a lot of them, NOT german and french. RB contains dutch, swedes, norwegians, germans, english, scottish, irish, finnish and many other countries for example. Therefore, basing everything around GMT is extremely xenophobic and anally retentive.

 

[noaim]

Originally posted by old.Nol


It has nothing to do with the actual relic raid anymore, it's you people justifying it. You should be spurning those those fools that did it, not painting them as hero's and the savious of midgard. If a hib alliance did it, they would be the laughing stock of hibernia, but now I fear you are justifying retaliation.

You are just too fun to listen to

If it wasnt about us snatching the relics, why have there been NO word from you about the albs that tried to get a relic aswell after we bashed the doors?

Please explain that. You have said NOTHING about it as far as I can see, and if you mentioned it, why dont you keep whining on them aswell for being lame?

Simple. They didnt get the relic, we got 2, THATS what pissing you off.

/edit: Bah quoted the wrong message, prolly due to every message from Nol being similar, and he tells us we are doing the same arguments over and over...oh boy.

 

[old.Nol]

Originally posted by noaim


You are just too fun to listen to

If it wasnt about us snatching the relics, why have there been NO word from you about the albs that tried to get a relic aswell after we bashed the doors?

Please explain that. You have said NOTHING about it as far as I can see, and if you mentioned it, why dont you keep whining on them aswell for being lame?

Simple. They didnt get the relic, we got 2, THATS what pissing you off.

/edit: Bah quoted the wrong message.

If relic's are what is important to me in this argument, I would get my alliance together at 5am and come and get them. Sadly you cannot judge everyone by your own moral code, or I would not be typing this now. You started this early morning raid shit, now you expect everyone else to take the blame, you started it by trying the same stint on Albion. Pointing fingers at Albion is not going to polish up this mess.

What are you so smug for, admitting you are too crap to take a relic when there is a chance you might meet some opposition? It's kinda like being smug over having one testicle because your undies aren't worn out as fast.

Sadly you are not us fun to listen to, it's like listening to the toilet flush.

 

[noaim]

Just tell me why you are not whining on albs for trying to take a relic, early morning and all- Dont give me any other crap in next reply, a simple answer to that please.

 

[shilak]

And Nol, the pretty childish 'but they started it' argument doesnt work on me. If there is likely to be a problem with the server spiraling into chaos with RR 2am every night then it is upto to us, the players, to stop that. I personally havent and never will attend a RR that isnt going to have a good chance of being defended against.

My idea of enjoyable RvR is fights where the odds of winning are as close to 50/50. The most fun I ever had in RvR was defending Beno against the albs where the fight wasnt decided completely until we finally won after a 10-15minute battle in the tower and lords room.

 

[old.Nol]

Just tell me why you are not whining on albs for trying to take a relic, early morning and all- Dont give me any other crap in next reply, a simple answer to that please.

Are alb's posting in here justifying the lameness of that attack? Whether is Albion, Midgard or Hibernia I think early morning raids are wanky. BUT, just to clear it one last time because you don't seem to be getting it, the issue I have is with people like you justifying the raid.

 

[noaim]

Originally posted by old.Nol


Are alb's posting in here justifying the lameness of that attack? Whether is Albion, Midgard or Hibernia I think early morning raids are wanky. BUT, just to clear it one last time because you don't seem to be getting it, the issue I have is with people like you justifying the raid.

We didnt rush to these forums and justyfied it did we?

It was yours and several others whining that made us come here to justify it, so please, give me another reason.

 

[shilak]

I think ill stop using that quote button, just makes the thread too long

Nol, I think you will find that the raid at 2am on the Albs and the one on the hibs at 7am were unrelated. In fact, I dont think LFOM even knew there had been an impromptu raid on the Albs until after they had finished.

 

[old.Nol]

Originally posted by shilak
And Nol, the pretty childish 'but they started it' argument doesnt work on me. If there is likely to be a problem with the server spiraling into chaos with RR 2am every night then it is upto to us, the players, to stop that. I personally havent and never will attend a RR that isnt going to have a good chance of being defended against.

My idea of enjoyable RvR is fights where the odds of winning are as close to 50/50. The most fun I ever had in RvR was defending Beno against the albs where the fight wasnt decided completely until we finally won after a 10-15minute battle in the tower and lords room.

What exactly is going to stop the server from spiraling into chaos now? It is exactly what this RR, petty and childish. FFS someone with balls in Midgard stand up and say that it is BS, because all we(Hibernia) see, is "We have your relics & when you take them back, we will come and fetch them agan" - that is the comment I base my spiral theory on.

Not only do you employ low tactics, but then threaten us that you will employ them again.

 

[old.Nol]

noaim - You didn't rush here and denouce it either, you just sat blithely in your corner celebrating your relic status. What did you expect, the Hib's would congratulate you? Ofcourse we will come here and object, which is exactly what midgard did when Albion raided them in the wee hours.

Shilak - I was just mentioning one of several ways to get your forces through into hibernia, if you scored from that then bully. It's not my job to plan your raids, but maybe next time you should find someone with ethics to do so. Hibernia also has to raid excal and contend with the zerg, when we do so, we leave our borders unprotected - funnily enough, the albs tend to suicide at the same time, leaving emai threadbare.

You say it's impossible to get through emain, what do you think it's lke as a hib? The second that there is no hibernian activity in emain, what is the conclusion? RELIC RAID - Check the keeps.

 

[Chenuba]

To Nol

You're getting quite amusing Nol. You just keep on trying to justify why you're right and everyone with any other opinion than yours are childish, lame, etc.
Please stop your whining now and accept not all play the same time and way as you do. Accept not all playing on Excalibur server are of the same opinion as you about where and when raids can take place. So please Nol, cut the crap and organize a retake of your "oh so precious power relics, that's been stolen from you".
Your continueous whining and complete ignorance of people using their, paying customers rights, when they got the oportunity to play, makes me wonder who's the "childish" one here.

 

[old.Nol]

Re: To Nol

Originally posted by Chenuba
You're getting quite amusing Nol. You just keep on trying to justify why you're right and everyone with any other opinion than yours are childish, lame, etc.
Please stop your whining now and accept not all play the same time and way as you do. Accept not all playing on Excalibur server are of the same opinion as you about where and when raids can take place. So please Nol, cut the crap and organize a retake of your "oh so precious power relics, that's been stolen from you".
Your continueous whining and complete ignorance of people using their, paying customers rights, when they got the oportunity to play, makes me wonder who's the "childish" one here.

Oh no, that cut deep, I'll keep being amusing thanks. Like those other paying customers, I too am entitled to an opinion, if you don't like, don't read it.

 

[shilak]

Nol, I never said any of those things. Also, if a group of middies decide they are only going to do relic raids in the small hours we (the other middies) are powerless to stop them.

All that those who dislike the use of such tactics can do is refuse to use them ourselves. What I do disagree with is the mentality that because its late at night means that you dont have to bother with defending your realm. Where do you draw the line? It seems acceptable to take keeps for DF access during the night, or retake lost keeps, yet any other action is condemned as noob play, etc.

Maybe we should petition Mythic to set all the keep guards to level 100 during the hours of 11pm and 10am server time, as I see that as one of few ways we can be sure that nothing changes hands during non-primetime. But then that is hardly fair on those that play during those hours only.

As I have said before, I wont do relic raids where Im not going to get some good PvP action. I left EQ for DAoC because I didnt like the PvE side of things and PvP on there was lame. And as far as I am aware, the large majority of players in midgard would prefer to be fighting other players instead of NPCs. Many of the officers within the Aesir's Blade alliance have already expressed that they dont arrange or attend relic raids outside of primetime.

 

[shilak]

Nol, I think you will find that the LFOM-alliance are not the largest alliance within midgard, and they arent answerable to anyone other than themselves. Sure, the other alliances could apply pressure to try and stop them doing other raids like this, but then when we need their help for other things they will be unlikely to give it. The last thing midgard needs is another internal division like the old NP/CE one.

 

[noaim]

Originally posted by old.Nol
noaim - You didn't rush here and denouce it either, you just sat blithely in your corner celebrating your relic status. What did you expect, the Hib's would congratulate you? Ofcourse we will come here and object, which is exactly what midgard did when Albion raided them in the wee hours.

I´ll give you one more chance to give a decent reply, then I give up.

Why are you not whining on the albs.
Dont tell me it is us justifying raid that is the issue, you whined on us before we did.

Albs tried to snitch a relic after we bashed the doors, at the same time as us.

 

[Jarrax]

sooooo.....
is this a bad time to ask whats a good spec for new and improved 10% bonus spiritmaster?

 

[old.Nol]

Originally posted by noaim


I´ll give you one more chance to give a decent reply, then I give up.

Why are you not whining on the albs.
Dont tell me it is us justifying raid that is the issue, you whined on us before we did.

Albs tried to snitch a relic after we bashed the doors, at the same time as us.

ffs fella read up I answered that ages ago.