Scout spec in 1.62

[zlair]

Originally posted by loxleyhood
Oi, lol, I don't make the epic armour.

And I still don't have IP.

I'm quite sure some SBs & NS' will be pleased to know that

(then again, they might think they suck balls cuz u own them (the SBs at least - still think Sarg is out looking for u )

 

[Glottis_Xanadu]

Big applause to you for waiting after each kill/hit for 10 minutes.
I refuse to accept that I have to wait that long before I can make a kill.

See hidden is an utter lame ass, no skill RA. Making me waste 629 skill points into stealth.
The See Hidden changes Mythic brought forward still suck donkeyballs, but 1/4 is the same as detect hidden I believe, so See Hidden is worth less.
Regards, Glottis

 

[Driwen]

Originally posted by Meduza
I never left atk be4 camo was up....

... i never stayed at 1 spot after a kill, always behind a tree etc...

... i NEVER stayed at ANY milegate when camo wasnt up !!! ...

... i NEVER moved TROUGH a milegate when camo wasnt up...

... and yes, i DID HAVE FUN playing Lox, so YES i can say how its like to play a 50 scout (even tho i was buffed, but that kinda gets even out by other buffed players )

I never stated once, that See Hidden should be nerfed, when i played lox, i just played smarter

but you agree that only when camo is up an archer can actually kill something, unless you are at some remote location where there is no assasin. It is even most likely nice for the see hidden assasins as now there will be archers without camou up on mg, because assasins can only see them on 1500 range on average and if you spec stealth high even less .
But as it is now (before .62) an archer is only active when camou is up which means you kill you hide 10 mins later you come back. I dont see that as fun.

 

[zlair]

It seems u guys needs the patience of an infil...

... camping a milegate as infil also needs 10 mins of w8 to each port to come through... and often more, since almost no1 solos anymore !

U cant have Emain mentality when soloing...

... but i know u all like too, becuz most of u remember the times u were the solo l33t !

If u dont like w8ing dont solo - simple as that !

 

[Tranquil-]

Originally posted by zlair
It seems u guys needs the patience of an infil...

... camping a milegate as infil also needs 10 mins of w8 to each port to come through... and often more, since almost no1 solos anymore !

U cant have Emain mentality when soloing...

... but i know u all like too, becuz most of u remember the times u were the solo l33t !

If u dont like w8ing dont solo - simple as that !

Most of the ones that has commented has never been the solo l33t you speak of.

I probably have more patience than most and personally I'm not that bothered by See Hidden, but you have to see the unfairness of the classes when it comes to efficiency in killing repeatedly.

Why should archers be forced to wait out this timer when infiltrators can kill repeatedly with no penalties whatsoever other than the hassle of reapplying poisons and positioning?

Archers are obviously given stealth for scouting purposes but cannot use it effectively when actually doing offensive moves or killing. That screws the archers over when it comes to specpoints used. Stealth is negated EVERY time they use their main specline.

Complete negation of large amounts of specpoints is not fun nor challenging for neither of the classes.

 

[zlair]

I read what u said, but....

... assasins' purpose IS to See Hidden characters... Thats what assasins is all about (yea yea, and the killing of casters)...

Tbh I dont know why, archers were given TS ??!? Only assasin classes should be able to See other Hidden characters...

Camo is given, so archers can scout behind enemy line... not so archers can KILL behind enemy line !

Assassins is then to find those archers KILLING behind enemy lines... If the archers keep SCOUTING then NOONE will find them... (except others with TS )

Its the original purpose of the classes, but I see why some scouts dont want See Hidden... then they can kill outta clip range and move behind a tree (or whatever) to avoid to be seen...

Ohh, and another thing... If scouts cant solo, then grp up ! Best fun i had playing a scout was grped (with Ferus Legionis) - man that rocked !

If u wanna solo, get used to kill and w8 10 mins - most infils does that nowadays anyway when they solo !

 

[zlair]

Btw...

... to keep the archer class to its purpose, RPs from killing should have a longer range...

.. cuz then they can keep scounting and tell of incommers to their grp way behind...

... that way See Hidden need not to be nerfed

 

[Tranquil-]

Originally posted by zlair
I read what u said, but....

... assasins' purpose IS to See Hidden characters... Thats what assasins is all about (yea yea, and the killing of casters)...

That is why assassins get detect hidden. If they were meant to see all stealthed players at all times that's how detect hidden would have been. In hindsight Mythic realized that. Just because you say so and feel that you should is not a reason.

Tbh I dont know why, archers were given TS ??!? Only assasin classes should be able to See other Hidden characters...

Camo is given, so archers can scout behind enemy line... not so archers can KILL behind enemy line !

TS was given on probably the same basis as SH, to prevent excessive camping of single spots. Except SH takes it to another level.

Assassins is then to find those archers KILLING behind enemy lines... If the archers keep SCOUTING then NOONE will find them... (except others with TS )

Its the original purpose of the classes, but I see why some scouts dont want See Hidden... then they can kill outta clip range and move behind a tree (or whatever) to avoid to be seen...

Scouting for groups is invaluable information for your groups, I do it, the point is that it is little challenge to move around doing nothing than observe and isn't exactly as actionfilled as killing when doing it for a length of time to put it lightly.

The original purpose of assassins is to take out key persons in places where the others of your group cannot reach him, it doesn't exactly sound like a normal day in emain does it?

Perhaps assassins could need some kind of low timered camouflage like archers? Lets say 3 minutes out of combat? Or else all stealth classes will see you with See Hidden and all stealth classes get access to SH as RA. Those 3 minutes is surely suitable for what your INTENDED purpse was? To take out key personell, not repeated gankage like emain is today. Heh.

Don't come with the bullshit that archers are supposed to spend points into stealth but can only use it for some scenarios. That's wasted points. Make stealthspec do something in groups aswell is something I'd like to see, but See Hidden isn't a good option. Merely a band aid for future fixes.

And what fucking archer will kill out of cliprange unless using Longshot/Volley?

- Longshot is a single shot on a 5 minute timer, not one yellow con will die from 1 volley shot only.

- Volley is a GTAoE that randomly hits or misses up to 5 targets in the ground target and requires the targets to hang around for more than 30 seconds in the same spot to be hit by 2 volleys. If you are under fire from Volley, why not MOVE if you are hit by something that obviously is volley?

No archery attack other than those above can hit from clip range or more. The max range for scouts is also 2.2k /loc units with the Heavy longbow. Clip range is iirc somewhere around 3.5k /loc units so Archers are still far from clip range with normal archery.

If you want me to I can exaggerate scenarios with assassins aswell? Let's stay with how things really work shall we?

Ohh, and another thing... If scouts cant solo, then grp up ! Best fun i had playing a scout was grped (with Ferus Legionis) - man that rocked !

If u wanna solo, get used to kill and w8 10 mins - most infils does that nowadays anyway when they solo !

Scouts can solo and so can assassins. Both can group aswell. Not everything is black or white. See Hidden is overpowered to archer stealth, but even more to minstrels.

It's too easy for you to say it. The point isn't to see any archer who happens to not have See Hidden up, it's to see an archers killmessages(if you actively stalk archers) and ask where the victim was killed and THEN stalk, not pick them off like rodents.

If you depend on See Hidden to find archers then you suck playing your infiltrator.

 

[Glottis_Xanadu]

Lets ignore mr inf.... Most infs I know can make 30k easily on a night, while I would be estatic if I could solo 30k. I can solo around 50k in a week...
So claiming scouts are anything close to good solo classes is complete crap. See Hidden ruined a lot more than (p)bt ever did.
Regards, Glottis

 

[Tranquil-]

Well, it certainly ruined solo play efficiency, but PBT partly ruines grouped efficiency so I won't say it's any better.

 

[zlair]

If u wanna solo, roll an infil...

... i did cuz i wanted to be able to solo !

Got bored of being ganked by archers (played a non-pbt theurg), so i rolled an infil !

SH ruined nothing, and if im a n00b cuz i use SH, then be it, what do i care... i have fun (some times )

Edit: Most of the times.. not 'some times'

 

[Gethin]

Hi folks

Once we get 1.62 ill be changing to the following spec.

50 Longbow
50 Shield
24 Stealth
15 Thrust

Gethin
Master Scout

 

[zlair]

Originally posted by Gethin
Hi folks

Once we get 1.62 ill be changing to the following spec.

50 Longbow
50 Shield
24 Stealth
15 Thrust

Gethin
Master Scout

Didnt u know ?

The post turned into being an See Hidden nerf/not-nerf thread...

 

[Gethin]

Originally posted by zlair
Didnt u know ?

The post turned into being an See Hidden nerf/not-nerf thread...

Lol Zlair

Suck my dick, the original post related to 1.62 Scout Specs.

Thats what i am commenting on. If i want to post comments on a See Hidden nerf ill do it elsewhere and maybe so should U.

Gethin
Master Scout

 

[Tranquil-]

Originally posted by zlair
If u wanna solo, roll an infil...

... i did cuz i wanted to be able to solo !

Got bored of being ganked by archers (played a non-pbt theurg), so i rolled an infil !

SH ruined nothing, and if im a n00b cuz i use SH, then be it, what do i care... i have fun (some times )

Edit: Most of the times.. not 'some times'

And you are afraid of not being as succesfull in picking off archers anymore, that's why you are opposed to See Hidden changes, not because it makes sense.

 

[tahngarth]

zlair u arent a scout so go away and kill some poor hunter/ranger with u lame SH kthxbye

 

[zlair]

Originally posted by Gethin
Lol Zlair

Suck my dick, the original post related to 1.62 Scout Specs.

Thats what i am commenting on. If i want to post comments on a See Hidden nerf ill do it elsewhere and maybe so should U.

Gethin
Master Scout

Hmm, guess u didnt see the irony in my post

 

[zlair]

Originally posted by Tranquil-
And you are afraid of not being as succesfull in picking off archers anymore, that's why you are opposed to See Hidden changes, not because it makes sense.

since when has anything Mythic did 'maked sense' ?

of cuz i dont want my class to get nerfed, i rly on PA for teh kill, not some gimped shadowmerc (they r not gimped i know, i just dont think that shadowmercs was a part of Mythics plan - as well as shadowzerkers ! (btw bye bye 2 u ))

 

[zlair]

Originally posted by tahngarth
zlair u arent a scout so go away and kill some poor hunter/ranger with u lame SH kthxbye

Edit: deleted this rude reply.... sry!

 

[Tranquil-]

Originally posted by zlair
since when has anything Mythic did 'maked sense' ?

of cuz i dont want my class to get nerfed, i rly on PA for teh kill, not some gimped shadowmerc (they r not gimped i know, i just dont think that shadowmercs was a part of Mythics plan - as well as shadowzerkers ! (btw bye bye 2 u ))

You mean NOTHING Mythic did made sense? What a silly remark

Your CLASS is not getting nerfed by reducing efficiency of See Hidden. Your CLASS is not DEPENDANT on See Hidden to kill.

PA != See Hidden, you do not need See Hidden to get PA off. (I know you know).

No, Shadowzerkers wasn't in Mythic's plans, but if you have read some new patchnotes you would have noticed that they are fixing that.

(btw, bye bye 2 u )

 

[Glottis_Xanadu]

Anyway, was thinking of the following...
Shield is nice for slam, but has a hard time landing, and has a defensive penalty against duel wielders (will still be the class scouts have to fight the most, even after the changes).
So I might respec to this:
- Longbow 45
- Thrust 50 (dragonfang, after evade, so lets get the evade RA)
- Stealth 35 (SH nerf, 50 stealth, similar to most assasins, should help)
- Shield 8 (I can allways get Mastery of Blocking III and block just as much as before, around 25% vs 24% now)
(7 skill points left)

Or, I leave longbow like it is now.
- Longbow 40
- Thrust 50
- Stealth 35
- Shield 22 (base 15% chance to block, or 25% with MoB II)

Tough choice
Regards, Glottis

 

[K0nah]

if they totally removed see hidden it really wouldnt help scouts much imo.

1. alot dont spec 48-50 stealth = assasin will see u from a fair distance anyway, no RAs reqd.

2. one sb for every 3m², mid on this server has over 150 lvl50 SBS and more coming everyday, all of them looking for archer and minstrel free rps...

3. sb's never solo. no matter what ur spec is if u stand and fight one you can expect a PA/BS within seconds. or maybe they all just "solo" within 3m² of each other...

4. sb's are never unbuffed.

just need to forget Emain primetime as a solo scout fullstop, sure u can play tag-along-a-zerg but its not quite the same as the good old days

 

[tahngarth]

Primetime = sorc time :>

 

[Tranquil-]

Originally posted by K0nah
if they totally removed see hidden it really wouldnt help scouts much imo.

Aye, something inbetween needs to be done and I think the new suggestions are ok. Still not sure about the PA shots/RF shots though...

 

[gendarion]

50 lbow
42 shield
29 slash
27 stealth

or

45 lbow
42 Shield
39 Slash
22 Stealth

but in the other hand... with a Sb´s population growing and growing, may be, we will be forced to be a group char, so why not....

50 lbow
42 shield
39 slash
6 stealth

 

[tahngarth]

cos no1 want a scout in grp why invite a scout when u can get a paly / wizz etc...

 

[vandar]

Serious advice required pls.

Lvlin a scout atm, lvl 31 sarac and trying to anticipate the 1.62 changes for final spec. I have no experience of thrust moves beyond Sting so help me out here.

The way I see it there are 4 possible specs:

1)
LB 45
Stealth 34
Shield 42
Slash 29

Gives amethyst and slam, the second rapid fire for less end used when firing and the second penetrate arrow. As a sarac though, low str.

2)
LB 40
Stealth 35
Shield 42
Thrust 34

Problem is the 34 thrust move is a 3 chain starting with evade, what are the chances of pulling that off in rvr?

3)
LB 50
Stealth 27
Shield 42
Slash 29

Great with the nice last penetrate arrow, tankablity but sacrifice stealth. Has anyone actually tried a low stealth spec in anger as a sniper?

4)
LB 50
Stealth 33
Shield 42
Thrust 21

Again, full dmg penetrate arrow, higher stealth but at the price of tankability. Is the 21 thrust move any good and with that lvl of dmg variance would you be better with a toothpick?

Can anyone enlighten me as to the purpose of the rapid fire? Quickly get rid of casters BT before crit??

 

[doneagle]

Originally posted by vandar
Serious advice required pls.
Can anyone enlighten me as to the purpose of the rapid fire? Quickly get rid of casters BT before crit??

PA is a passive ability tho so if you have PA, your RF will just penetrate the BT not bringing it down. Lot of discussion on VNboards about scouts grouping together with this one.

3 scouts with PA1 = 3 * 50% dmg on self bt = 150%dmg
3 scouts without PA = 1 * 0% + 2 * 100% dmg =200%dmg

See the prob?

I would advice you to check the vnboards for more info about see hidden changes aswell. As it stands now ( with testing ) only stealth above 25 will affect an assasins see hidden on you. At 34 f.e. the detection radius is decreased to 1210 units instead of max 2500 ( the cap in 1.62 on see hidden )

My scout spec ( currently lvl 32 ) will be :

45 LB
50 Thrust
34 stealth
12 shield