Scottish smoking ban

Anastasia

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Cozak said:

Oooh an ASH website. I'm convinced. Completely unbiased reporting of the facts with no agenda whatsoever other than to reveal the truth. Please.

Whatever, I'm not even interested in the effects of passive smoking. All I'm arguing for is choice. What you're arguing for is an outright ban, which is no better than the situation today where YOU have no choice.
 

Zede

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Imashrimp said:
I dont think you see my point, your habbit "EFFECTS" every single person in the pub! Both smokers and non-smokers alike, your "addiction" is "effecting" me, as you yourself point out, a pub is for socialising and having a drink with m8's.

Your smoking ruins my night, how would you going outside, being a bit friendly to everyone else in the pub, stop you enjoying an evening. Lets face it, it might even cut your habbit down a bit and mean you can spend more time drinking with m8's!

I accept you have a habbit, you enjoy a smoke, I have a habbit, I pick my nails, unless I start throwing nail bits into your eye down the local I dont see how ANY habbit I have would effect you and pottential cause numerous problems with your health!

Ill take it down to the base level:

Smoking kills, causes numerous diseases and generally stinks.

When I go down a pub to "socialise" with my m8's I have to breath in all the smoke, I could potentially get any of the numerous diseases from 2nd hand smoke. Sorry but that in itself should be enough to ensure smoking is banned from all public places! You have a right to smoke, at the moment, I have a right to breath fresh air and socialise over a pint of fosters. Your habbit infringes my rights, enough said! :drink:

You say you respec my rights, currently you dont, you smoke in public places :(

and drinkers respec peoples rights too m8 ? as i said in an earlier post, go down to A&E on a Friday night and ask them about " rights" Using your rule set, we should we have people in pubs undercover ready to throw out peeps who potentially may get too drunk ? ( so to avoid possible violence)

what scares me when i go the pub, is not a 1/1000000 chance of getting some supposed disease, put some drunk dick ready to kick off on someone.
If you are so bothered, LEAVE - you have a choice. ffs you have the ability to find a suitable pub/drinking outlet that serves your purpose, please go find it and stop your whining.

ever been a victim of alcohol related violence ? ask 100000000 people which one they would rather avoid, possible chance of some disease caused by 2ndary smoke, or getting rid of the 1000s of drunken yobs that plague our towns and cities. it all about priorities, and a smoking ban is just an easy way out.
 

Anastasia

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Seeaira_Tempest said:
I am very sensitive to smoke. The min I am exposed to it I suffer from intense headaches. Why must I be forced into situations like this, just so this person who doesn't care about his health or others can have some convenience and comforts?

I'm allergic to cats and dogs, so should they be banned in public places? I also suffer mildly with hayfever, so can we grow less grass please? And I also don't fare too well in dusty environments, so can we also have stricter laws about how well dusted a public place is?

Basically I avoid putting myself in situations that are likely to cause aggravation (which is a real shame for me and my wife because we'd LOVE to have a dog :( ). Once again, all I want is the right to CHOOSE.
 

Cozak

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Zede said:
your funny as fuck m8

you have a CHOICE to walk into a pub or not

Some guy in the street minding his own business who gets glassed by some drunk dick had NO CHOICE

A lady walking home with her 5 year old daughter and some drunk tit goes onto the pavement and knocks em both over had NO CHOICE

understand ?

How many times do i have to repeat my points for you to understand? I KNOW i have a choice to be in the bar, as i said im not going to sit at home doing nothing because i dont want to breathe smoke, so when iam out doing things i have NO CHOICE if i want to breathe your smoke or not. Understand? So why should the minority(smokers) have the choices? Especially when it is the minority who are killing not just themselves but the majority (non-smokers) as well.

Also why do you keep bringing drinking into this discussion it is about smoking :eek:
 

tRoG

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This is all a bit silly.

First of all, you may as well accept that the smokers and the anti-smokers are never, ever, going to agree. Won't happen.

Speaking from the point of view of a non-smoker; breathing in smoke is disgusting. I don't care about the health risks involved, it just makes me feel sick. It smells. It chokes me. It's basicly not very pleasant.

I understand that smokers need to smoke... but please, do it in your own home, or in a place where the air can escape. It's just good manners, to be honest.

Secondly, this must be the eighteenth time I've seen this argument on this forum. Woah.

And, finally... Zede, what the [/i]fuck[/i] are you talking about?
 

Vireb

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imo go drink your "woo-woo's" with your fluffy headband and versace pants in some other pub like "The Jolly Farmer" or something , hey you might even find summin to smoke..............
 

Cozak

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Anastasia said:
Oooh an ASH website. I'm convinced. Completely unbiased reporting of the facts with no agenda whatsoever other than to reveal the truth. Please.

Whatever, I'm not even interested in the effects of passive smoking. All I'm arguing for is choice. What you're arguing for is an outright ban, which is no better than the situation today where YOU have no choice.

Actually if you had read what i have posted you would see that im not just arguing for an outright ban because i can see others(smokers) needs to. Just having a small properly ventilated room for smokers to go to would be fine, as long as others, who do not necessarily smoke do not have to stand and inhale your smoke.
 

Anastasia

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Cozak said:
How many times do i have to repeat my points for you to understand? I KNOW i have a choice to be in the bar, as i said im not going to sit at home doing nothing because i dont want to breathe smoke, so when iam out doing things i have NO CHOICE if i want to breathe your smoke or not. Understand? So why should the minority(smokers) have the choices? Especially when it is the minority who are killing not just themselves but the majority (non-smokers) as well.

Also why do you keep bringing drinking into this discussion it is about smoking :eek:

But would you object to being offered the CHOICE of smoking or non-smoking bars?

And if you keep saying that passive smoking kills people often enough it might just come true.
 

Cozak

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Anastasia said:
I'm allergic to cats and dogs, so should they be banned in public places? I also suffer mildly with hayfever, so can we grow less grass please? And I also don't fare too well in dusty environments, so can we also have stricter laws about how well dusted a public place is?

Basically I avoid putting myself in situations that are likely to cause aggravation (which is a real shame for me and my wife because we'd LOVE to have a dog :( ). Once again, all I want is the right to CHOOSE.

Aye because grass, cats and dogs kill everyone in the surrounding vicinity all the time :m00:
 

Anastasia

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Cozak said:
Actually if you had read what i have posted you would see that im not just arguing for an outright ban because i can see others(smokers) needs to. Just having a small properly ventilated room for smokers to go to would be fine, as long as others, who do not necessarily smoke do not have to stand and inhale your smoke.
Then we agree :)

I'll go to my suicidally dangerous smoke pit, and you go to your health-farm.
 

Anastasia

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Cozak said:
Aye because grass, cats and dogs kill everyone in the surrounding vicinity all the time :m00:
Read the post I quoted - they were complaining about headaches, not instant death.
 

Vireb

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Anastasia said:
Read the post I quoted - they were complaining about headaches, not instant death.
dogs have killed people, i have yet to hear of a case of anyone dieing from passive smoking
 

Cozak

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Anastasia said:
But would you object to being offered the CHOICE of smoking or non-smoking bars?

And if you keep saying that passive smoking kills people often enough it might just come true.

I wuld rather not have specific bars for smokers and specific bars for non-smokers i would rather have the sames bars with deignated smoking places, as i have said.

I have shown you, reliable, evidence that passive smoking does kill you.
The evidence, although posted on the ash website or whatever it was, was from a american scientific group, your gonna say a bunch of scientists are wrong? So now you show me some evidence that passive smoking doesnt kill, and stop living in the dark
 

Cozak

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Anastasia said:
Read the post I quoted - they were complaining about headaches, not instant death.


I never said instant death either.
 

Chesnox

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Round and round we go....

Imashrimp said:
Ill take it down to the base level:

Smoking kills, causes numerous diseases and generally stinks.

When I go down a pub to "socialise" with my m8's I have to breath in all the smoke, I could potentially get any of the numerous diseases from 2nd hand smoke. Sorry but that in itself should be enough to ensure smoking is banned from all public places! You have a right to smoke, at the moment, I have a right to breath fresh air and socialise over a pint of fosters. Your habbit infringes my rights, enough said! :drink:

You say you respec my rights, currently you dont, you smoke in public places :(

Sigh. You still don't get it. I shan't continue to bang my head against a brick wall. Just try to learn some tolerance and try to have some subjectivity on issues, you'll come across as less of a pedant. I'll close by saying that the actual medical risk you are exposed to down the pub due to passive smoking is about as risky as you spontaneously combusting or falling over in the toilet and cleaving your skull open.

You see, in my opinions, most of the anti-smoking arguments are based on nothing more than peoples obvious disdain of my smelly addiction. Well, its not my addiction, its my hobby. I enjoy it, and I am a generally thoughful kinda person who won't blow smoke in peoples faces or smoke around people who obviously dislike it. I have friends who for whatever reasons dislike me smoking. They ask me to stop, I stop. They don't rant and demand that I should be banned or insist I go stand outside like a pariah. You see, its called compromise and tolerance. Sadly, we increasingly live in a intolerant society unwilling to compromise on non-issues like smoking in pubs. Passive smoking my arse...

I'll bow out now. I've said my piece, repeatedly. Just hope they don't ban whatever floats your boat soon.
 

Zede

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Cozak said:
How many times do i have to repeat my points for you to understand? I KNOW i have a choice to be in the bar, as i said im not going to sit at home doing nothing because i dont want to breathe smoke, so when iam out doing things i have NO CHOICE if i want to breathe your smoke or not. Understand? So why should the minority(smokers) have the choices? Especially when it is the minority who are killing not just themselves but the majority (non-smokers) as well.

Also why do you keep bringing drinking into this discussion it is about smoking :eek:

ok....

you say you know you have a choice to be in the pub fair enough.

so, your sitting at home, wondering what to do. you really really dont like pubs cause' they are full of people smoking, and you dont like it. Are you saying, if you dont go down the pub, you just sit at home doing as you say "nothing" ? Your social life is really that black and white ? You make it sound like the pub has some hypnotic lure you cannot resist. (ofc if ladies are present i understand :p) stop beating your self up about it.

why bring drinking into this discussion ? erm....you know those pubs you go to dont just serve lemonade m8
 

Anastasia

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Cozak said:
I wuld rather not have specific bars for smokers and specific bars for non-smokers i would rather have the sames bars with deignated smoking places, as i have said.

I have shown you, reliable, evidence that passive smoking does kill you.
The evidence, although posted on the ash website or whatever it was, was from a american scientific group, your gonna say a bunch of scientists are wrong? So now you show me some evidence that passive smoking doesnt kill, and stop living in the dark
Any group of scientists (especially in the US) need funding for their research. ASH funds research, as does Phillip Morris et al. Who you gonna believe?
 

Cozak

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Zede said:
ok....

you say you know you have a choice to be in the pub fair enough.

so, your sitting at home, wondering what to do. you really really dont like pubs cause' they are full of people smoking, and you dont like it. Are you saying, if you dont go down the pub, you just sit at home doing as you say "nothing" ? Your social life is really that black and white ? You make it sound like the pub has some hypnotic lure you cannot resist. (ofc if ladies are present i understand :p) stop beating your self up about it.

why bring drinking into this discussion ? erm....you know those pubs you go to dont just serve lemonade m8

Its not just pubs though, they just seemed to be the main emphasis on places where people smoke, and which would be affected most by the smoking ban. Its my place of work, i cant help avoiding smoke when behind the bar but on my lunch breaks having 1 staff room which they are allowed to smoke in is unpleasant as well. There are many places where smoke affects ppl.

I know they dont just serve lemondae, but talking about drink driving in a smoking ban thread is a bit OT ;)
 

Cozak

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Anastasia said:
Any group of scientists (especially in the US) need funding for their research. ASH funds research, as does Phillip Morris et al. Who you gonna believe?

I will believe the original page i quested from because tbh i cant see how 100% of those chemicals can just disappear on they have been inhaled some have to come back out, and also when a cigarette is just left burning the smoke coming off it is 'pure' as in un-breathed?
 

Zede

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fACT : 3952 people on average die per year in the UK attempting DiY.

ban the oddles of trendy DiY programs ?

close down all the B&Qs ?

ofc not.

with proper ventilation, and specified rooms there is no reason at all why smokers and none smokers cannot go down the same pub.

oh and as for clubs, make the dance floor smoke free ( dont want some smoker givin you a nice burn :clap: )
 

Cozak

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Zede said:
fACT : 3952 people on average die per year in the UK attempting DiY.

ban the oddles of trendy DiY programs ?

close down all the B&Qs ?

ofc not.

with proper ventilation, and specified rooms there is no reason at all why smokers and none smokers cannot go down the same pub.

oh and as for clubs, make the dance floor smoke free ( dont want some smoker givin you a nice burn :clap: )

Then i guess we have come to a compromise.... to the Government!!!!!1

edit: gonna go to bed now before i get banned for spamming or something, nn :)
 

Ormorof

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should just force all "public places" to have non-smoker and smoker areas with decent ventilation, its not so much that smoking makes your clothes smell its the breathing problems you face (especially if you are suffer from asthma), i also think its quite rude to smoke and blow smoke at non-smokers (which essentially is what is happening with the "wall of smoke" argument), for example, you dont go up and burp in peoples faces, or force them to smell your shit, why should non smokers then be forced to breathe your 2nd hand smoke or alternitavely leave, you say its discriminating against smokers forcing them to leave pubs and bars yet surely its discriminating against non-smokers forcing them to breathe smoke if they wish to enjoy the social interaction that takes place in bars/clubs etc? (since you are saying, if you dont like it then leave, the same argument can be turned towards smokers? :p )

i have plenty of friends that smoke, its a disgusting habit in my opinion, but thats my opinion and im entitled to that, and its their opinion its nice, relaxing or whatever, but why should i have to put up with other peoples bad habits? i dont force my bad habits on other people, why should i have to put up with it?

just my 2 cents ;)
 

Vireb

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Ormorof said:
should just force all "public places" to have non-smoker and smoker areas with decent ventilation, its not so much that smoking makes your clothes smell its the breathing problems you face (especially if you are suffer from asthma), i also think its quite rude to smoke and blow smoke at non-smokers (which essentially is what is happening with the "wall of smoke" argument), for example, you dont go up and burp in peoples faces, or force them to smell your shit, why should non smokers then be forced to breathe your 2nd hand smoke or alternitavely leave, you say its discriminating against smokers forcing them to leave pubs and bars yet surely its discriminating against non-smokers forcing them to breathe smoke if they wish to enjoy the social interaction that takes place in bars/clubs etc? (since you are saying, if you dont like it then leave, the same argument can be turned towards smokers? :p )

i have plenty of friends that smoke, its a disgusting habit in my opinion, but thats my opinion and im entitled to that, and its their opinion its nice, relaxing or whatever, but why should i have to put up with other peoples bad habits? i dont force my bad habits on other people, why should i have to put up with it?

just my 2 cents ;)[/QUOTE

didnt i say that like 3 pages ago :/]
 

Rookiescot

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Virtually ALL smokers would welcome full segregation in Pubs/Clubs/Casino's ....
We dont want to sit in the same room as you "self righteous, hollier than thou, band wagon jumping, blinkered" non smokers any more than you want to sit with the "Air polluting, foul smelling, suicidal, extra tax paying, happy go lucky, tolerant" smokers.
And when I say full segregation I mean FULL. Absolutly no non smokers in the smoking area.
 

Weylander

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Why don't they just wrap everyone up in cotton wool ffs! Let people make their own minds up, this includes the bar owners who should have the right to make the choice on whether to be no smoking or not.

I'm off for a GREAT BIG CIG :kissit:
 

Bishibosh

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Vireb said:
dogs have killed people, i have yet to hear of a case of anyone dieing from passive smoking

I'm sure there was a case of a woman working in a bank who was killed after having to work in a non-ventilated room with heavy smokers, despite repeatedly asking to be moved or for something to be done about it.. Im not sure whether she had other medical conditions that were worsened by this or anything was about a year ago...
 

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