Savages

[Corran]

Sure give them charge and banelord, however they shouldnt be allowed banelord until it is removed from BD and WL first. Those 2 should never got it in first place.

So in short. Charge = Yes
Banelord = Conditionally yes, but pratically no (it will not be removed from the pre-req classes )

 

[Puppet]

I'm not too impressed by savage dps. It's not like they'll outdamage a merc/bm, or I hope not :d

By about ~15%.

See my calculations regarding this topic here:
https://forums.freddyshouse.com/showpost.php?p=2734194&postcount=147

There's 1 thing not mentioned in the calculation which is the fact a merc can nowadays have banespike up at the most important fights (5 mins timer) where a savage cannot have banespike (atleast, I dont think it stacks with his dps-buff when a friendly zerk banespikes).

 

[Jarahl]

Fucking hell, no! They get Prevent Flight, thats enough.

 

[feril]

Charge yes but not BL

 

[Lethul]

give me everything! i want more specpoints too. and i want dps shout to stack with banespike!

 

[rure]

give me everything! i want more specpoints too. and i want dps shout to stack with banespike!

I agree with him.

 

[Tuorin]

No and no,. Lets get back to unccable assist trains of doom with savage dps, pf, back stun ezmode made even ezmoder. Lets have them able to range interupt while charging at casters and lets remove casters from game. Basically thats what will happen. Determination improvements and wanting charge and bl?


Only condition I could see savage getting bl or charge is remove bl from retard dancer. Once thats given to savage, then give it to Hero and Arseman.

 

[Arid|Disci]

No and no,. Lets get back to unccable assist trains of doom with savage dps, pf, back stun ezmode made even ezmoder. Lets have them able to range interupt while charging at casters and lets remove casters from game. Basically thats what will happen. Determination improvements and wanting charge and bl?

casters have it rly easy to avoid tank dmg atm tho imo...

on the charge issue before fixing that they should fix the increasing melee lag instead of making it worse every patch it's time for a solution !

 

[Konah]

I'm not too impressed by savage dps. It's not like they'll outdamage a merc/bm, or I hope not :d

tripling 2x4.4s claws at cap speed with dps buff, insane growth rates and 2x positional stuns? i think so tbh

rly i think savage not getting charge or banelord is one of the best balance decisions mythic have ever made. its still a very strong class (with det5) but it now has some drawbacks instead of being the 100% best possible choice of light tank in any realm.

 

[Dallas]

Well, last night midgrp ran 3 savages rr11, rr10 and rr6 i think.
And it worked okay actually, maybe 3 is too much in a midgrp, but they still hurt like hell, giving them charge would be ok, imo. But banelords is abit too much.

 

[Gahn]

Ok after I made this poll I left for work.. suprised me so many ppl responded since I was abit joking about it.

Anyway on a more serious thing I would like to see them having Charge so they can keep up with the assist train.
Maybe I should have made a third option in the poll with Charge only but I forgot!

As an hero i got really few problems to keep up with train, guess it's same for savages even without charge -.-

 

[Fuaip]

if savages should get charge, champions should too..

 

[joap]

Savages are light tanks which are, as all know, melee damage dealers. As such they do a very good job.
The savage problem, as i see it, is that they are competing for spots in groups with zerkers; and there is little reason to group savages over zerkers.

In terms of DPS i think (no numbers here, just going on gut feeling) that although the zerkers have a lower DPS than savages they can make up for it with banespike and vendo mode. Moreover zerkers have charge (which is not as important with det5, but it's still very nice to have) and banelord.
So basicaly the groups have the choice of 2 high DPS melee classes, but one of them has temporary CC imunity, and is a source of interruption; while the other has none of those.

Imo, i think savages need some form of love to increase their usefulness to groups, but not at the expense of the zerkers. Ideally i'd like for groups to get a zerk and a savage, and not 2 zerkers or 2 savages. Problem is i got no magic solution to get that

 

[Vasconcelos]

Wots the main reason nowadays to take a zerker into a grp? Banelord interrupts.

Give BL to svgs n why would ne1 take a zerker? When u can have an interrupting tank who is eventually able to one shot a caster non bg'ed. Just seen Raids video. Basically he hits n run n throws BL shiit to interrupt casters most of the fights. I can imagine the likes of Mumin running forwards, using demo shout, dropping a caster below 25% hps or death in one stun rear quad, then moving onto the next....

Give BL to svgs n zerkers are gone of mid grps

Charge wont improve their performance by that much, will it? I'd take 2 bl zerkers anyday over zerker+svg.

Who used to run svg as bg bot? Always thought that was a great move.

 

[Marc]

Pretty sure it was Valravens who ran svg as BG'er

 

[[NO]Subedai]

ye we did a little, i think revoler did at 1 point also. Works pretty effective, better than warrior in sumways, but with recent warrior boost the svg prolly lacks to muich in that department. 2 zerks and 1 svg was really good in 2005 when tanks wuld go for each other, alb merc grps etc, then the svg culd bg the zerks and pwn em

 

[Agrigo]

...and yet again, Alb only gets one class with charge ._.

2X classes with di and pr

But tbh all the realms are different and that makes the game fun to play

 

[old.windforce]

If you give them Charge, you might aswell remove berserkers from the game. That class would be inferiour in all possible ways to savages then.

but zerkers got battler / malice ^^

 

[Frozodo]

give hero with Banelord and Charge imo!

 

[Jobbegea]

but zerkers got battler / malice ^^

hth savage's get battler aswell for the charge in 2hslot.
2H savages can get them both

 

[Straef]

tripling 2x4.4s claws at cap speed with dps buff, insane growth rates and 2x positional stuns? i think so tbh

rly i think savage not getting charge or banelord is one of the best balance decisions mythic have ever made. its still a very strong class (with det5) but it now has some drawbacks instead of being the 100% best possible choice of light tank in any realm.

Well, I've never had a savage do more damage than my merc, tho that's just personal experience. I wouldn't go as far as to say that a merc does more damage by defenition, but I don't usually get hit for over 400ish damage by savages, while dealing 600+ with my merc. That might just mean that I only run into shit savages, however

 

[Konah]

svg bg or thane bg dies 1000x easier than a warrior bg, one thing valravens never learned luckily ;p

 

[Straef]

if savages should get charge, champions should too..

Right :e

 

[Vasconcelos]

svg bg or thane bg dies 1000x easier than a warrior bg, one thing valravens never learned luckily ;p

Well, nowadays casters are the main dmg dealers, cant see how a warrior can be killed now x1000 easier than a svg or thane from magic, unless warrs have an anti magic dmg ability i dont know (testudo works against magic dmg too? )

Yet, there arent that many melee trains now for a svg to kill while bg'ing i guess

 

[Lethul]

Well, nowadays casters are the main dmg dealers, cant see how a warrior can be killed now x1000 easier than a svg or thane from magic, unless warrs have an anti magic dmg ability i dont know (testudo works against magic dmg too? )

Yet, there arent that many melee trains now for a svg to kill while bg'ing i guess

warriors do indeed get alot more magic resists nowdays, and alot more hitpoints, testudo works against magic. they also get access to soldiers barrier. and get a nifty mini-"group purge".

 

[Puppet]

Well, I've never had a savage do more damage than my merc, tho that's just personal experience. I wouldn't go as far as to say that a merc does more damage by defenition, but I don't usually get hit for over 400ish damage by savages, while dealing 600+ with my merc. That might just mean that I only run into shit savages, however

Mercs have chain and spec-AF 'by default' where savages have studded and most likely no spec-AF. That alone makes a massive difference in the damage they take.

Also add the fact your merc is most likely slash (so ur hitting weak armour), and the savage might use a slash-H2H weapon instead of a thrust one. Tho serious savages probably use the Sallie Tail which is thrust 4.4 spd.

Oh, and your weapon-speed on your merc is most likely quite abit lower then the savage swing-speed. 20% haste versus 39% haste makes quite a difference aswell.

 

[Straef]

Mercs have chain and spec-AF 'by default' where savages have studded and most likely no spec-AF. That alone makes a massive difference in the damage they take.

Also add the fact your merc is most likely slash (so ur hitting weak armour), and the savage might use a slash-H2H weapon instead of a thrust one. Tho serious savages probably use the Sallie Tail which is thrust 4.4 spd.

Oh, and your weapon-speed on your merc is most likely quite abit lower then the savage swing-speed. 20% haste versus 39% haste makes quite a difference aswell.

I'm aware of that, but my sorc doesn't get hit for too much over 400-500 either, which is what I meant. And yeah, I've got 4.2 speed on both hands, while a savage will most likely have a (slightly) faster offhand weapon.
Granted that I'd be using ml's and charges and such, I'm pretty positive about doing more damage over time, even with mainly defensive ra's (or nothing that actually increases my damage output, like charge/det and whatever, other than some minor mop/aug str), while a savage would most likely have some more of those.

 

[Lethul]

I'm aware of that, but my sorc doesn't get hit for too much over 400-500 either, which is what I meant. And yeah, I've got 4.2 speed on both hands, while a savage will most likely have a (slightly) faster offhand weapon.
Granted that I'd be using ml's and charges and such, I'm pretty positive about doing more damage over time, even with mainly defensive ra's (or nothing that actually increases my damage output, like charge/det and whatever, other than some minor mop/aug str), while a savage would most likely have some more of those.

lets test then, me kill puppet then you kill puppet

and savages got either 4.2 offhand or 4.4 offhand

 

[Svartmetall]

Problem with Savages is they got nerfed far too hard, almost killing the class off completely; but if you give them Charge and Banelord you take away a lot of the Berserker's (oh yeah, they got nerfed too hard, too, guess there's a pattern here) stuff that they can bring to a group.

 

[Puppet]

lets test then, me kill puppet then you kill puppet

and savages got either 4.2 offhand or 4.4 offhand

Slash merc versus my ranger is an interesting fight, aslong they dont pop Dirty Tricks. Not saying I will win, but its quite an equal fight.

Savages kill me alot faster, yes I hurt em more swing for swing, but they evade/parry feckloads (evade 4 + 25% evade-buff is better evade then an assassin has xD)