Savages "Fixed" - Please stop crying now.

[benknuser]

Well, to sum up the changes:

Hand to hand s/d/t/q rate pre-nerf: 60/27/4/7

Hand to hand s/d/t/q rate post-nerf: 60/23/15/2

( ht tp://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=56421829&replies=32 )

Furthermore, Dualist reflexes (RA) seems to have no effect on double/tripple/quadro rate. Couldnt find the thread i read about that. (You try waiting for every page to load, and look through every damn thread about dualist reflexes)

Two handet weaponskill has been lowered around 9%

( ht tp://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=57280902&replies=11 )

Another disturbing thing in that thread, is that on pendragon (test server) midgard presumeably holds all str relics, heh.

----------------

Buffs have been changed from 30 sec duration to 15 seconds, but the buff still starts blinking when 10 seconds remain - hello carpal tunnel

Cost of the buffs have been changed to take % off your maximum hp, not estimated hp.
But reports of the buff costing 50-90% more than pre-nerf, seems quite disturbing. Eagerly awaiting tests on this
If this data is confirmed, then it will be impossible to use the haste/dps/evade combo effectively post-nerf, unless you got yourself some badass healers

The added cost on savagery buffs, will mean that a savage has to determine what buff to use in what situation. Might sound ok, but requires alot of situational awareness.
Its harder than you think to change between your 3 qbars every 15 seconds, and find the right button .
Especially when you have no idea when the buff is gonna drop. (blinking as soon as you hit it)

At least we dont have to worry about melee resist buffs anymore, they are utterly useless now. Even in duels

A benefit from this change to savagery buffs might be, that it now requires a little more skill to play a savage succesfully.

------------

Instant taunt shout has been changed to a 2 sec castable taunt.

Who the hell cares?

------------

Two-handet savage's now only has acces to below 5.5 speed weapons.

Basicly means that mythic wants to prevent nerf-cries from frontloading savage's with an awsome looking weapon. (Frontloading means DPS buff only and no qui on template)

------------

Also, for those savage's hoping mythic will come to their senses, they only allowed savage's a week to test this, and the TL is on vacation = No testing whatsoever. Not that it would matter anyway.

------------

My summary would be that this is a pretty heavy nerf, not as heavy as the LA nerf, but still heavy.
But HEY, at least our tl's saved the day and prevented this:

ht tp://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=57376027&replies=27

I guess the nerf-criers wont be satisfied until every mid melee char reaches Thane levels = No evade, low dmg, low hp, low morale. And useless RA's

Anyway, if i see another nerf savage's thread, im gonna puke.

Flame away.

 

[shortarse]

QQ T_T ;..; etc.

 

[speshneeds]

about time imo.

 

[umilard]

I guess the nerf-criers wont be satisfied until every mid melee char reaches Thane levels = No evade, low dmg, low hp, low morale. And useless RA's

Or maybe, the nerf-criers might indeed have a valid point most of the time? In my eyes, zerkers _was_ overpowered, just as sbs were, just as smiting clerics were..

How often do you see the "whining albs" bitching about warriors?

Atm the bonedancers are overpowered, and so is savages, chanters, thrustinfils and minstrels. This is what i think and i seriously doubt i'm the only one thinking so.

And then we have overpowered RAs like determination, sos, bof, pr and baod.. I don't like them either..

And i don't think Instant AEcc is balanced either.

Face it, savages needed a big nerf, dunno if this was enough really.. guess the future will show, if a class makes all other tanks not wanted in a group it's obvious it's overpowered, isn't it?

 

[Nonnier]

aye savages needed a nerf, only a complete idiot would say otherwise.

good move by mythric imo, might mean that other tanks in mid might be useful

 

[lissandra]

well now its time to nerf bof and sos imo

 

[Ravenbourne]

Question now is what are they all going to roll now?

 

[faderullan]

Lets see if this is enough..

 

[old.Jeriraa]

Originally posted by umilard
...
And i don't think Instant AEcc is balanced either.
...

:sleeping: Have you ever got to type "cm" after being hit by insta mezz? I guess not.



Yus, Savages needed a nerf. This fotm class totaly messed up the class balance in Midgard.

Shadowblades overpowered? Yus, any assassin that can take on a tank without worrying to die is!

Minstrels overpowered? Defenitly, but why? They were toned down and you Alb gits stopped playing them. "No flavour!", "Minstrels suck!" and now?

Infiltards (Thrust = Infiltard, Slash = Assassin) will never get nerfed, simply because they make like 30% of Mythics playerbase.


Mythic is meassuring by 2 scales. 1st, they look at the percentage of people complaining. Then they look at the percentage of people playing the targeted class. Then 2 things can happen:

1. whiners > targets
Target class gets "toned down" and some other class gets a goody or 2 so it can be the new fotm.

2. targets > whiners
Mythic guy1: Problem solved.
Mythic guy2: Did we have a problem?

The frequent changes of the so called flavour of the month has a simple reason: These hardcore players who otherwise would get bored have to roll a new class and stick to the game a little longer.

Mythics changes to the class/ability system are not driven by the will to provide a better gaming expierience. They are just aiming to keep as many as possible players in the game.

 

[klavrynd]

heyhey let's post yet another savage thread with the same content weeeee

and

Instant taunt shout has been changed to a 2 sec castable taunt.

Who the hell cares?

you sir, are a noob

 

[uma_thurman]

Originally posted by benknuser
The added cost on savagery buffs, will mean that a savage has to determine what buff to use in what situation. Might sound ok, but requires alot of situational awareness.

Hear hear. This is what differentiates a good player from a FOTM bandwagoner.

So what class are the doublefrost-spamming brigade going to pile into next?

 

[Melachi-]

Re: Re: Savages "Fixed" - Please stop crying now.

Originally posted by uma_thurman
Hear hear. This is what differentiates a good player from a FOTM bandwagoner.

So what class are the doublefrost-spamming brigade going to pile into next?

Maybe one of the Infil variations.

1: the "You are now performing Garrote as a backup for Dragonfang"

2: the "You prepare to spam the slash weak SB with Amnethysts Slash!"

3: ugh gotta hate this one, "You are now performing Dual Shadows as a backup for Dragonfang"

Im sure either of those Brigades would suffice, regardless if you have a buffbot or not, they are still 2 buttoners :X Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz shutup Uma

 

[scarffs]

Originally posted by umilard
Or maybe, the nerf-criers might indeed have a valid point most of the time? In my eyes, zerkers _was_ overpowered, just as sbs were, just as smiting clerics were..

How often do you see the "whining albs" bitching about warriors?

Atm the bonedancers are overpowered, and so is savages, chanters, thrustinfils and minstrels. This is what i think and i seriously doubt i'm the only one thinking so.

And then we have overpowered RAs like determination, sos, bof, pr and baod.. I don't like them either..

And i don't think Instant AEcc is balanced either.

Face it, savages needed a big nerf, dunno if this was enough really.. guess the future will show, if a class makes all other tanks not wanted in a group it's obvious it's overpowered, isn't it?

Good points there umilard, but why only nerf the mid stuff in your post ?
thats what gets us pissed you know.
You listed four classes and one gets the nerfbat, the mid one

And noone whines about warriors because they rarely kill stuff.
Noone whines about cabalists either.

 

[Xeanor]

It was just one big fuckup by mythic to allow the savages to just do ALL of it's buffs.

I'm glad it won't be able to anymore.

Oh, and quad-rates fixed. It pretty much takes the piss when you get 3 savages on you who each hit 3x and ALL quad.

Now GIVE 1.65 so I can play my Sorcerer again!

 

[Shike]

/em dances

 

[Sharma]

Originally posted by Shike
/em dances

Same here.

 

[Ottar]

> Lets see if this is enough..

Fadeh, honestly, how often do you guys lose to a "overpowered" savage team? In a fight with equal numbers. When was the last time? Im sure you can remember.

If you win >>> 50% against midgard ganksquads, then how exactly do you arrve on conclusion its the savages that are overpowered?

Ottar

 

[ormorof]

Originally posted by Xeanor
It was just ONE BIG FUCKUP by mythic to allow the savages to just do ALL of it's buffs.

I'm glad it won't be able to anymore.

Oh, and quad-rates fixed. It pretty much takes the piss when you get 3 savages on you who each hit 3x and ALL quad.

Now GIVE 1.65 so I can play my Sorcerer again!

savages cant use all of their buffs anyway, unless they fancy loosing 80% of their hp after 30 seconds, maybe learn what your talking about first?

also quad hits are unstyled.... well i cant change the fact that savages got nerfed... at least ive always got my nerf proof thane.... or do i?

 

[Xeanor]

Originally posted by ormorof
savages cant use all of their buffs anyway, unless they fancy loosing 80% of their hp after 30 seconds, maybe learn what your talking about first?

Oh, maybe that's why they always use like, evade + dps + parry + resist + resist + haste shout? ^^ Learn what you're talking about

Originally posted by ormorof
also quad hits are unstyled....

 

[Ottar]

> Learn what you're talking about

We also use dblfrost4tehwin, wear plate armor, can stealth, have aoe stun and regularly solo the dragon.

Ottar

 

[Melachi-]

Originally posted by Xeanor
Oh, maybe that's why they always use like, evade + dps + parry + resist + resist + haste shout? ^^ Learn what you're talking about

Hmm im pretty sure hes right Xeanor, the mainhand hit is styled but the second, third and forth hits are all unstyled hits im told

 

[Xeanor]

Originally posted by Melachi[Mid]
Hmm im pretty sure hes right Xeanor, the mainhand hit is styled but the second, third and forth hits are all unstyled hits im told

yes, but hitting for an extra 400 damage, crits excluded, isn't overpowered? i thought he meant that you can only crit if you don't use styles.

wish mercs hit for that damage tbh

 

[chretien]

Something to remember is that a savage still has a 40% chance to hit more than once per swing without having to spec any additional spec line as most other dual wielding classes do. They also still have tank RAs (which Mythic seem to have indicated they will be keeping) and even after the nerf they are pumping out single hit damage consistent with other tanks. How anyone can claim they have been gutted is beyond me.

 

[Xeanor]

Originally posted by chretien
Something to remember is that a savage still has a 40% chance to hit more than once per swing without having to spec any additional spec line as most other dual wielding classes do. They also still have tank RAs (which Mythic seem to have indicated they will be keeping) and even after the nerf they are pumping out single hit damage consistent with other tanks. How anyone can claim they have been gutted is beyond me.

yep, a dual-wielder who can quad-hit doesn't even have to spec for dual-wielding...

 

[Melachi-]

they also have less spec points

 

[froler-mid]

and less WS!11


the most annoying nerf must be the 15sec buffs.....now i got 1000 styles, 1000 buffs that i need too press like every 1.5sec oO




i welcome the nerfs tho....

 

[vindicat0r]

Originally posted by ormorof
savages cant use all of their buffs anyway, unless they fancy loosing 80% of their hp after 30 seconds, maybe learn what your talking about first?

also quad hits are unstyled.... well i cant change the fact that savages got nerfed... at least ive always got my nerf proof thane.... or do i?

You ever played a savage or fought ?

A savage can use all his buff's at once and AFTER 30 sec's he will lose between 170-210 hps < so say's a few savage's Parzi comes to mind>. hmmm 200ish hps lost, LOL who gives a fuck, if a healer cant cast a group heal in 30 sec's then throw his azz out of that group. 200ish hp's off a 2400hp savage

The first move is styled the other 3 are not, similar to zerker off hand.

 

[old.Morchaoron]

Originally posted by Melachi[Mid]
they also have less spec points

merc with 50 DW has 1705 points availible

savage dont have DW and have 2223 points availible

Also if its true that a savage has 40% chance to swing his offhand (and the next one thereafer etc) it means that during a fight an average (40%+20%+10%=) 70% will be offhand attacks, the merc has to spec to get these extra attacks, but the savage gets them for free...

 

[benknuser]

Vindicator, pre-nerf, a savage can only use dps/haste/evade, at the same time. If he used all his buffs, he would loose more like 600 hp

 

[old.Emma]

Ummm slightly mis-informed albs/hibs as usual.

H2H Spec determines chance to d/t/q..

At 20+ H2H spec you double hits become more common.
30+ H2H spec you start to triple hit
40+ H2H spec you start to quad hit.

H2H is basicly 2 lines in one a weapon spec line for styles/weaponskill etc, and a duel wield line to increase chance to double hit and then subsequently triple and quad hit.

This why a split spec Savage can still double/triple hit and if there H2H spec is high enough Quad hit, even though there Actual weapon spec is based on a completely different line ie Axe/Sword/Hammer.

Yes the nurfs were semi-justified, but the buff nurfs are too much. 15 seconds isnt long enough for the buffs to make much difference at all and the hp cost is now stupid. It actually costs ~200% more for the buffs than it was pre-nurf (based on running the buff for 30 seconds)

It would have made more sense for Mythic to just leave the 30 second duration on the buffs but correct the error they made in the first place regarding its costs.

Currently the buffs in the game now (1.62) take upto 9% of your base hits (naked hit points) for 30 seconds of buff use.

Which is around 90 hp per purple buff with 1000 base hit points

In 1.65 they now last for half the time and cost half the ammount but take hits from your max hit points (base + items + RA`s + buffs)

Which would mean the original 9% buffs now cost 4.5% (its rounded up in the actual game) for 15 seconds of buff use.

Which is around 99 hp per purple buff with 2200 buffed hit points.

So infact for the same duration of buffs it nows costs you 198 hp, or 594 hit points for the 3 most commonly used Haste/DPS/Evade buffs, compaired to the pre-nurf cost of 270 hit points.

Thats around ~230% increase in buff costs.