Savage DPS comparison...

[Flimgoblin]

http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=56537639&replies=44

interesting

zerkers do more damage overtime than h2h savages - but 2h savages outdamage them by a long shot.

Edit:

zerkers with positionals do more damage than anytime-spamming savages... with both using anytimes the h2h savage and 2h savage out-damage zerkers by a long shot.

 

[Flimgoblin]

note that this is over 5 minutes... compared to the berserker fighting for 2 minutes.

I wonder what the damage would be like if you just compared the first minute or two minutes of the savage (where the short-duration bump from self-buffs would have more effect)

Edit: duh - savage buffs can be recast the moment they drop yeah? so it wouldn't make any difference - doh.

 

[parzi]

just hope the changes wont kill my planed sword/hth hybrid spec

 

[Pin]

2 things which I would say were biased/stupid about the test.

1. He states 'level 48 mob', doesn't say whether that mob is vulnerable to crush and resistant to slash, and doesn't say if the resistance modifiers (+/- xxx) values were removed from his damage totals, which means the comparison between 2h and h2h savage could be useless.


2. The only style he uses on the savage is an anytime (taunt), but he uses a rear-positional chain with the berserker hoping you'll compare the DPS of 4 with the DPS of 6 and come to the conclusion that the berserker does more damage. You should only look at the comparison between 4 & 5 for the anytimes, or he should get some results of savages using positionals (especially as they complain about having no decent anytime style at all).

 

[Silenzio]

Yeeees!!!

Go Tell em

 

[Flimgoblin]

the mob was a tester mob - probably neutral to all damage types, worth clarifying though

the positionals is a good point

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Flimgoblin
the positionals is a good point

I'd love to see the comparison he gets when he starts using Conquer->Sledgehammer instead of Provoke (50-70% higher style bonus).

No idea how much extra damage the h2h positional chains do in terms of percentage, but I'd expect a sizable increase.

There's other things like a haste proc on the berserker weapon, and minor issues like damage caps effecting the berserker and 2h savage more against 'softer' rvr targets due to higher weaponskill.


And yes, the test mob was probably neutral to damage types, but should have been stated.

 

[vintervargen]

conclusion : 2h savage deals more dmg PvE

wopheee.

 

[Forau]

Multihits are calced by your WS vs your opponents AF and some other stuff. I.e on casters, those numbers would be radically different.

 

[ilienwyn]

xmm, buffed savages when they use the 2 self buffs do almost double damage comparing to what they do without self buffs?!

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by ilienwyn
xmm, buffed savages when they use the 2 self buffs do almost double damage comparing to what they do without self buffs?!

It should be ~60% increase for the H2H and ~75% increase for the 2h (due to different Savagery specs).

The actual results came out at 54% and 90%


The other button they press doubles their defense

 

[Amadon]

Originally posted by Forau
Multihits are calced by your WS vs your opponents AF and some other stuff. I.e on casters, those numbers would be radically different.

you sure about that?

not that I doubt you, because it seems to work that way, but I haven't seen anything to confirm it.

 

[belth]

Should test on a "test-player" with 100k hp rather than some mob

 

[belth]

sigh all these savages claiming our anytime style sucks in HTH style is so misleading...here's some growth rate info on the HTH stylesplease note these are w/o dps buff)
h2h spec: 44+20 total 64
weapon spd 4.0 both hand
unstyled cap w/o dps buff: 209
STR: 312
DEX: 347
QUI: 253
Effective Swing rate: 2.46 (no haste)

no savagery buffs used at all.


using the formula: (Cap-UnstyledCap)/(Weaponspec x Effective swing spd) we get

Wild Call Cap was 350, thus, (350 - 209)/(64 x 2.46)=0.90
Clan's Call Cap was 396, thus, (396 - 209)/(64 x 2.46) = 1.19
Kelgor's Fist Cap was 408, thus, (408 - 209)/(64 x 2.46) = 1.27

thats right, 0.90 GR on our anytime taunt style. which is far higher than any other anytime style. these are w/o the dps buff, with dps buff it resulted in MUCH higher growth rates.
I hope this settles the h2h has no good anytime style issue.

-----signature-----
Sweat, Einherjar
Sushii, Einherjar
Sweatx, Blademaster in training (Will make BMs look good, unlike Giaco)

Funny shit there.

 

[scrow2]

Originally posted by Pin
It should be ~60% increase for the H2H and ~75% increase for the 2h (due to different Savagery specs).

The actual results came out at 54% and 90%


The other button they press doubles their defense

you have any prove of this ? or are you just spreading bs like all the other whiners ?


ps. that uber l33t dps buff is 21%...means 3,5 dps damage add...OMG uber 3,5dps

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by scrow2
you have any prove of this ? or are you just spreading bs like all the other whiners ?

Firstly, if you've seen any of my other posts you'd know I'm not in the habit of 'spreading bs'.

Secondly, I did make an error in my quick calculation, as the 39% haste buff shouldn't result in a 39% damage-over-time increase, but slightly less.

edit: oh, and I don't see what you could call bs in my post. a 21% dps buff, with a 32% haste buff should result in roughly 1.21*1.16 = 1.40x damage for that h2h savage test case

and a 25% dps buff, with a 39% haste buff should result in roughly 1.25*1.2 = 1.5x damage for that 2h savage test case.

But if you read the thread, you'd see they in fact gained MUCH more than that.

Originally posted by scrow2
ps. that uber l33t dps buff is 21%...means 3,5 dps damage add...OMG uber 3,5dps

Actually, from what a RR10 savage just posted in the thread it's very clear that the dps buff is indeed NOT just adding it's stated percentage to damage, and that in fact, the dps buff is bugged, and is mistakenly being factored in twice, which results in much higher damage than is intended.

 

[parzi]

well its 3,5 base dps, its like using a 20 dps weapon...

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by parzi
well its 3,5 base dps, its like using a 20 dps weapon...

Except that it's bugged, so it's like using a 20dps weapon, and then hitting with styles which are 21/25% more powerful than they are supposed to be as the style bonus multiplier is apparently being multiplied aswell.

 

[Arnor]

Like I said in the thread there, who the hell cares?

if they tested on a lvl 50 mob and found that zerker did 524314x the dmg of a savage, it still wouldnt matter, becuase in "real" rvr, we all know zerkers are pf-bots compared to savages. so numbers schmumbers

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Arnor
Like I said in the thread there, who the hell cares?

if they tested on a lvl 50 mob and found that zerker did 524314x the dmg of a savage, it still wouldnt matter, becuase in "real" rvr, we all know zerkers are pf-bots compared to savages. so numbers schmumbers

And like I said, the Berserker's numbers are artificially inflated in that thread (rear-positional styles, haste proc), while the Savage's numbers are suppressed (anytime/taunt style). Doing some _very_ quick analysis of the hammer savage, if the test was done with conquer->sledgehammer instead, the DPS comparison would be 214 vs 139.

The reason a Berserker is nothing but a PF-bot is that they stink when compared to Savages in terms of damage (which is what a light tank is supposed to bring).

If the Savage was 'fixed', Berserkers would be much more desirable.

 

[Ahqmae]

Originally posted by scrow2
you have any prove of this ? or are you just spreading bs like all the other whiners ?


ps. that uber l33t dps buff is 21%...means 3,5 dps damage add...OMG uber 3,5dps

Moron.

 

[katt!]

Originally posted by scrow2
you have any prove of this ? or are you just spreading bs like all the other whiners ?


ps. that uber l33t dps buff is 21%...means 3,5 dps damage add...OMG uber 3,5dps

merchz? is that you?

 

[scrow2]

Originally posted by Pin
Firstly, if you've seen any of my other posts you'd know I'm not in the habit of 'spreading bs'.

Secondly, I did make an error in my quick calculation, as the 39% haste buff shouldn't result in a 39% damage-over-time increase, but slightly less.

edit: oh, and I don't see what you could call bs in my post. a 21% dps buff, with a 32% haste buff should result in roughly 1.21*1.16 = 1.40x damage for that h2h savage test case

and a 25% dps buff, with a 39% haste buff should result in roughly 1.25*1.2 = 1.5x damage for that 2h savage test case.

But if you read the thread, you'd see they in fact gained MUCH more than that.


Actually, from what a RR10 savage just posted in the thread it's very clear that the dps buff is indeed NOT just adding it's stated percentage to damage, and that in fact, the dps buff is bugged, and is mistakenly being factored in twice, which results in much higher damage than is intended.

soz for the "spreading bs" part.

Id made a mistake by looking at the damage per weapon (weird that the dps buff makes damage per weapon increase even with speed buff).
ps. Im not defending savages, I think they are overpowered too. Just think there are many thing being said that are not true.

 

[belth]

I'm betting we're seeing the same effect with the Savagery DPS buff as we're seeing with strength relics which seem to be adding way more than the 10%/20% damage, with the exception of the DPS buff increasing caps.

 

[old.Ramas]

Also....

Originally posted by Midgard RvR TL
This is really more of an FYI than anything else. My analysis of the logs showed that the reason the 2H Savage in these tests outdamaged the H2H Savage is completely due to the fact that the H2H Savage had an extremely high miss rate. Now, anyone who has leveled a H2H Savage knows that it feels like you wiff a lot, so this isn't necessarily big news. It's important to realize though, that if somehow a H2H Savage were to land their hits more often, they absolutely would outdamage a 2H user.

 

[Arnor]

Originally posted by Pin
And like I said, the Berserker's numbers are artificially inflated in that thread (rear-positional styles, haste proc), while the Savage's numbers are suppressed (anytime/taunt style). Doing some _very_ quick analysis of the hammer savage, if the test was done with conquer->sledgehammer instead, the DPS comparison would be 214 vs 139.

The reason a Berserker is nothing but a PF-bot is that they stink when compared to Savages in terms of damage (which is what a light tank is supposed to bring).

If the Savage was 'fixed', Berserkers would be much more desirable.

yep, my damage is FINE, but since its now on par with bm/merc, give increased bleeds, shieldspec and flurry.

 

[Aussie-]

yes and give them vendo

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Arnor
yep, my damage is FINE, but since its now on par with bm/merc, give increased bleeds, shieldspec and flurry.

Your damage is still higher than a bm/merc, so stop crying mr. panda.

 

[belth]

So... H2H Savages get a lot of misses then eh? Hybrid weaponskill it must be. Funny thing, my infiltrator doesn't wiff much (well didn't pre-1.62, dunno now), atleast nothing to start whining about.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by belth
So... H2H Savages get a lot of misses then eh? Hybrid weaponskill it must be. Funny thing, my infiltrator doesn't wiff much (well didn't pre-1.62, dunno now), atleast nothing to start whining about.

he used weapons with 0% bonus (just posted back in the thread after re-checking)