Saddam Spin off.. Should the Death Sentence Be Brought back?

[liloe]

stuff

You must spread some reputation But you said that so well Chronic

If God treats us as all equal, who are we to take another person's life away and then eventually resume our normal standard of life? Equal to me means the same. If someone takes 'x' life, they should lose theirs too (in a general sense).

Trust me, if you want to bring christian religions into this, they're against death penalty =)

 

[Corran]

Chronic,

Yes prisons are too soft, they need to be toughened up but there are certain crimes that are inexcusable and so demand a tougher sentence then even that. I have dealings with many forms of criminals through my job. Though it is fraud that im involved with that is just the beginning for some. Many people are under different investigation from the local police (ie one case involves someone that is suspected of various shootings and thought to be a hitman). Gives an insight into these peoples lifes when you go into their homes and the areas they live in. You know prison is nothing to them.

The prison sentences given out in this country are too leanient. If we have to work with the current system then life should mean LIFE. Not "You are sentenced to life imprisonment, however you can be out in 7 years with good behaviour". I mean for fuck suck they are in prison under guard, they shouldnt have a chance to misbehave and if they do someone isnt doing their job!

Britain is a soft touch, has been for many years and the current government are just making it worse. We open our boarders to everyone and invite more crime. This is not me being racist as there are a lot of british criminals, BUT our open door police is letting the organised crime of other countries to come into our place without a fuss. And they are laughing. Back home alot of them would just be shot for the shit they pull but over here they know they get a couple years at most, spent in a nice comfortable cell, not in one where they got a high chance of dying from some disease and being punished with daily beatings.

But thats just me. Lucky for criminals i dont have a say in how this country was run. Even without the death sentence they would be gettign much worse treatment then they currently do.

Trust me, if you want to bring christian religions into this, they're against death penalty =)

Different religions though would prove interesting when you look at teh "Eye for and eye" and "treat others how you be treated" outlooks.

 

[Laddey]

If i got life i'd sooner die rather then spend 15years of my life (with parole etc) stuck in a prison. No thankyou.

Maybe if i'd commit a crime that bad i'd think differntly, in this state of mind i couldn't handle that much time in jail.

 

[Gamah]

Oh fucking hell "he's" back...

Death Penality should be used in cold blooded murder where theres 100% proof that it was the guy, all other times no.

 

[Neffneff]

Oh fucking hell "he's" back...

Death Penality should be used in cold blooded murder where theres 100% proof that it was the guy, all other times no.

people dont get convicted unless its deemed "100%" proof apparently?

*cough* innocent until proven guilty *cough*

EDIT: i realise i shouldnt have posted this, all hell could break loose.

 

[Jeremiah]

people dont get convicted unless its deemed "100%" proof apparently?

*cough* innocent until proven guilty *cough*

EDIT: i realise i shouldnt have posted this, all hell could break loose.

I think the UK takes the view that as long as evidence shows beyond reasonable doubt that they are guilty, they can be convicted. I maybe be wrong of course

 

[Neffneff]

I think the UK takes the view that as long as evidence shows beyond reasonable doubt that they are guilty, they can be convicted. I maybe be wrong of course

would you like to define reasonable doubt for me?

 

[Ormorof]

would you like to define reasonable doubt for me?

google it

"Definitions of reasonable doubt on the Web:

* An accused person is entitled to acquittal if, in the minds of the jury, his or her guilt has not been proved beyond a "reasonable doubt;" that state of minds of jurors in which they cannot say they feel an abiding conviction as to the truth of the charge."

 

[Jeremiah]

Yeah, pretty much what Ormorof said. If the jury return a unanomious decision of guilt, the court will be satisfied. Granted its not perfect, but very few crimes are commited where you can prove it just using evidence

 

[Marc]

If we could be 100% sure that the person up for the crime was guilty then yes, the death sentence should be brought back. There must be nothing worse for the family of someone who was murdered, to see the killer sentenced to 15 years, only to be cut to 8 years for good behaviour. Its disgusting. If you are willing to take a life, you should be willing to accept your life to be taken.

 

[Chronictank]

If we could be 100% sure that the person up for the crime was guilty then yes, the death sentence should be brought back. There must be nothing worse for the family of someone who was murdered, to see the killer sentenced to 15 years, only to be cut to 8 years for good behaviour. Its disgusting. If you are willing to take a life, you should be willing to accept your life to be taken.

again, what relevance is the problems of the current system to the death penalty,
it doesnt solve anything.
Instead of implementing things that do not work (see america for example) surely it would be better to fix what we have?

 

[Corran]

surely it would be better to fix what we have?

Easiest way to fix what we have is to scrap the system and start again

 

[Rinusch]

No it shouldn't. there are much worse things then death,

 

[Laddey]

No it shouldn't. there are much worse things then death,

What like? I can't think of anything that doesn't break the law itself or people will protest. I guesse whatever somebody does, somebody will protest or disagree?

 

[adoNix]

If you murdered someone, you should pay back with your own life.

 

[tris-]

heard on the radio judges maybe given new powers to stop people being released early to protect the public from dangerous bastards.

 

[BloodOmen]

Agree for it to brought back for some things.... AND if the evidence against them was 100% hard



Death for any of the following crimes i think....

Child Murder
Murder (if it was in self defence then not)
Sexually abusing a child (sick f**kers deserve death plain and simple)
Rape
Anyone that buys a pokemon game

and other selected "Serious" crimes think those are the main main/most common ones covered tho

 

[Bugz]

If you make decisions which should be made with a logical and distant manner with "emotional decisions" you have already made the wrong choice before you even open your mouth.
Your reply screams you have never done a hard days graft in your life (but then i dont expect you to, your only a kid), it is not "easy" by any means.
A life term of manual labour is a hell of alot more of a punishment than the easy way out, "death".
This also means that the prisoners family does not have to suffer/live off benefits as a result if the prisoners wage is given to them.


state and religion are seperate in the uk, one can never be used to justify the other. And quite rightly so

That aside your argument is also flawed, if the family were true christians they would have forgiven him/her for his/her sins and believe he/she will be punished accordingly when they die

I didn't even mention the word emotional or anything linked to it. I simply mentioned that we should be looking at both the victim and the offender. If outraged was seen as an emotional term, I apologize for your short-sightedness...

My dad has been in the prison service and the police service combined for over 10 years. He deals with a lot of stuff you can only begin to imagine. So don't come at me with your shitty little age comments. From his stories alone, I know so much about the justice system... and he knows more than a lot of people.

Easy way out? I don't give a shit about easy way out's. People want justice. Having someone lose their life through taking one of your families is ALOT more justified to me than them doing labour. Maybe you should stop living in dream world. If someone kills one of your family, either your a moron, or you want to take their life away.

That arguement regarding money can be used both ways. Our prisons are overcrowding. Kill the fuckers and we'll have less people in prisons = less money spent on them etc. etc. Furthermore, they should earn a wage too? Get real lol. That is a joke!

Lastly, if your going to argue agaisnt religion. Atleast get it right. A 'true' Christian? Who are you to define who is 'true' in a religion?

 

[noblok]

I believe that there are four factors which play a role in punishing: deterring, safeguarding, reforming and retribution.

As a deterrant the death punishment is particulary useful. Perhaps it would be if it would be introduced for lesser crimes, such as speeding, but in those cases it would conflict with our moral intuitions of justice. For more serious crimes however, the punishment doesn't affect the crime rates that much. there is empirical evidence to support this statement in the form of US states who had death punishment, got rid of it and reinstated it again without noticing a significant difference (I'm afraid I don't have a link).

As a tool for keeping society safe it has one advantage over life long imprisonment. There is no way they can escape once dead. I find this a weak argument; it just means that prisons need to be better secured. Although you can never completely eliminate the risk, I find this alone an unconvincing argument pro-detah penalty.

It needs no explaining that the death punishment has no advantages when it comes to reformation.

This leaves the retributive element. Here I would like to pay attention to three elements: retribution, practical arguments and forgiveness.

I agree that retribution should not be neglected. Someone who commits a murder of passion poses no real threat to society any longer, but if he got away without any punishment at all, this would go against our moral intuitions. The state should impose a symbolic punishment, to show that this behaviour is not accepted (note: I don't mean a £1 symbolic compensation, I mean a punishment which has no use, except a symbolic). This is not only needed for the victims, but for society as a whole.

There are at least two practical arguments against the death punishment. A first one is the one already mentioned in the first post: you will eventually kill someone innocent. The second one has already been touched indirectly by Chronictank. This argument focuses on the family of the criminal. The criminal isn't the only one who is punished, his family suffers from the penalty as well. Financially, as Chronic showed, but emotionally too. Here we need to balance the emotional harm caused to the family of the criminal and the emotional relief given to the family of the victim. Going all the way for the family of the victim isn't really balancing.

This touches the last point: forgiveness. Yes, retribution is needed to recover from the loss/harm done, but one can only completely recover if he also forgives the criminal. This is an idea which is very important in the christian (and to a lesser extent the jewish) tradition, but I believe it has an importance which exceeds the religion. If retribution is aimed at undoing the harm that is done in a symbolic way, then the logical conclusion/culmination of this process is forgiveness. Forgiveness doesn't actually undo the harm that's done, but it creates a situation which is as if the harm wasn't done.

 

[Chronictank]

F*** me for someone who claims they are well educated you seem to lack basic reading and understanding skills, lets make holes in your pathetic attempt at a flame

I didn't even mention the word emotional or anything linked to it. I simply mentioned that we should be looking at both the victim and the offender. If outraged was seen as an emotional term, I apologize for your short-sightedness...

And I think any family who's lost a member because of a murderer would be outraged with your suggestion.

outrage  / Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[out-reyj]
–noun
1. anything that strongly offends, insults, or affronts the feelings.
2. a powerful feeling of resentment or anger aroused by something perceived

lol.. your quote shows you dont even know what the word means yet you try and dig out some sort of insult

[quoteBugz] So don't come at me with your shitty little age comments.

Your reply screams you have never done a hard days graft in your life (but then i dont expect you to, your only a kid), it is not "easy" by any means

try actually reading the comment and understanding it before making a fool of yourself, your dad has sweet f*** all to do with my comment, nor has what he has or hasnt seen. A 16 year old in this country in this day and age is 90% likely not to have any idea at all what a hard days graft is, reitterated by your post missing the point entirely

Easy way out? I don't give a shit about easy way out's.

You contridict yourself, you say you want them to pay yet you dont care if they get the easy way out

People want justice. Having someone lose their life through taking one of your families is ALOT more justified to me than them doing labour.

So vengance is the real motive, not justice. Justice would be them paying for their mistakes, vengance would be you wanting to satisfy yourself by taking the life of another.

Maybe you should stop living in dream world. If someone kills one of your family, either your a moron, or you want to take their life away

so if someone disagrees with your point of view and they are a moron....

if i was in that situation,
i hope i was strong enough to follow her example
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4913510.stm
she is a hell of alot better person than you evidently

That arguement regarding money can be used both ways. Our prisons are overcrowding. Kill the fuckers and we'll have less people in prisons = less money spent on them etc. etc. Furthermore, they should earn a wage too? Get real lol. That is a joke!

If you actually read my post you would see that in my "dream world" the prison is self sustaining. Also if you read my post i say it goes to them at the end of their sentance, if indeed they are serving life (being really life as i also agree with a previous poster that life should be life) then there would be no "wage" would there

Lastly, if your going to argue agaisnt religion. Atleast get it right. A 'true' Christian? Who are you to define who is 'true' in a religion?

i didnt say it, the bible did

"Forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us."

Who are you to say any differently?

And once again you dont read the post,
matters of

state and religion are seperate in the uk, one can never be used to justify the other. And quite rightly so

Now crawl back under your rock and let people with a bit of intelligence have their discussion

 

[noblok]

As a deterrant the death punishment is particulary useful.

Doh, it isn't particulary useful, if that wasn't clear in relation to the rest of that paragraph. Could a mod perhaps edit it to avoid confusion?