News S African white supremacist - killed

[Turamber]

Tierk.

I hope in your line of work that all companies decide that your colour of skin is not suitable, and any job you try to get is the same. Then lets see you enjoy leaving your home and country to go to somewhere you didnt want to go but had no choice in!

I have to say I agree. "Positive discrimination" is such a horrid idea, it is well on the way to being a black version of the white supremacists that came before them. What a bloody mess.

 

[kiliarien]

I have to say I agree. "Positive discrimination" is such a horrid idea, it is well on the way to being a black version of the white supremacists that came before them. What a bloody mess.

That's not really the concept of positive discrimination (although I am also uneasy with this concept.) It's bringing minorities into a forum and/or workplace and positions of responsibility. As usual, these terms are almost conceptual and have to be applied subjectively. As Corran pointed out, the view of a white South African who has to leave to find a job from his homeland would be somewhat jaded.

White supremacy in SA was based on better organisation, and much better technology during the colonial era to keep the local populus indigent. This is a sociological backlash of decades of supression. And if they do 'rise up' in a political form, then they have the numbers:

Black 79%, White 9.5%, Coloured 8.9%, Asian 2.6% (Community Survey, 2007) (Taken from verified Wiki)

It's also helpful not have 11 official languages ffs.

 

[tierk]

It would be good if we could read the figures from the Betterment & Homeland schemes through the apartheid system. Somewhat unsurprisinlgy those figures are unavailable but I would suggest those appropriated lands yielded an excellent ans healthy income for white farmers before this new scheme came into practice.

On this issue though the argument should have been originally to train and offer capital investment to black farming communities/businesses rather than subjugate their land through Betterment/Homeland, but then that's why apartheid sucked.

I did try and find figures prior to 1994 but as you probably also found out, they are hard to come by. I think everyone can agree that when it comes to issues of land and land redistribution, there will always be a unhappy party involved and there is no method that people can turn to and say that it is 100% successful.

The system they have applied in SA in my book is about as fair as it can get. Nobody is forced to sell and a fair price is given for the exchanges.

As you rightly point out though the implementation of the transfers could probably have been handled in a much better way and your suggestion about offering capital investment alongside a strong commitment to training is spot on. They could have stipulated in the terms of the exchange that over a period of x number of years the farmer who is being bought out would be obliged to actually do the training.

Only when the people being resettled on the newly acquired farms were independently assessed as capable of taking over completely would the land be handed over.

For this additional service provided by the farmer to the community and country as a whole they should receive bonuses on top of the purchase price of the land. The faster the new people learn the larger being the bonus.

However, it is easy to make all these judgments and suggestions after the fact, nobody can honestly suggest that the process has been such a complete failure as some people on this thread are either suggesting is happening or will happen.

 

[tierk]

Tierk.

I hope in your line of work that all companies decide that your colour of skin is not suitable, and any job you try to get is the same. Then lets see you enjoy leaving your home and country to go to somewhere you didnt want to go but had no choice in!

Sorry but the point you are trying to make has no relevance whatsoever to the topic at hand. There is a reason why they have implemented this policy in SA, which you are either not seeing or are just avoiding, i would hazard a guess at the latter.

The entire system of the country has been setup over a long period of time to insure that blacks were kept in the dirt and whites on top. There was a disproportionate number of white people with their hands on all the levers of power, wealth and the economy as a whole and this needed to be redressed.

If you cannot see the logic behind trying to make sure that the 80% majority of a country are fairly represented in everyday life as well as the economy of the country and how it is run then there is no point discussing this subject with you any further.

Please don't try and turn this into a personal issue its not. I think you would be surprised at the number of people that are doing exactly what white South Africans are doing - looking for work outside there home countries - all over the world, it is not a new phenomena. It is even happening in England, people leaving because they feel that they no longer get what they want at home.

 

[kiliarien]

I did try and find figures prior to 1994 but as you probably also found out, they are hard to come by. I think everyone can agree that when it comes to issues of land and land redistribution, there will always be a unhappy party involved and there is no method that people can turn to and say that it is 100% successful.

The system they have applied in SA in my book is about as fair as it can get. Nobody is forced to sell and a fair price is given for the exchanges.

As you rightly point out though the implementation of the transfers could probably have been handled in a much better way and your suggestion about offering capital investment alongside a strong commitment to training is spot on. They could have stipulated in the terms of the exchange that over a period of x number of years the farmer who is being bought out would be obliged to actually do the training.

Only when the people being resettled on the newly acquired farms were independently assessed as capable of taking over completely would the land be handed over.

For this additional service provided by the farmer to the community and country as a whole they should receive bonuses on top of the purchase price of the land. The faster the new people learn the larger being the bonus.

However, it is easy to make all these judgments and suggestions after the fact, nobody can honestly suggest that the process has been such a complete failure as some people on this thread are either suggesting is happening or will happen.

Most definitely, the training/investment should have been implemented. I would say though that yes, having hindsight is always better but the implementors of this policy should have seen the lack of skill as a barrier because that was why the first betterment scheme (which was already disfavourable for black communities) resulted in the homelands not only siffering but in many cases spiralling into abject poverty as crops failed year after year on marginal land. The difference was then the whites didn't really care and so offered no training.

This has been a good discussion, wish I could rep you again so soon Tierk.

 

[Jeros]

One less

 

[tierk]

Most definitely, the training/investment should have been implemented. I would say though that yes, having hindsight is always better but the implementors of this policy should have seen the lack of skill as a barrier because that was why the first betterment scheme (which was already disfavourable for black communities) resulted in the homelands not only siffering but in many cases spiralling into abject poverty as crops failed year after year on marginal land. The difference was then the whites didn't really care and so offered no training.

This has been a good discussion, wish I could rep you again so soon Tierk.

I would imagine that in the euphoria of having gotten freedom there was a sense of we can do anything, we defeated the unbeatable Boers. Get what i mean?

I think another problem was probably the fact that no other country has had to deal with such an issue on such a large scale before. Considering the history of SA and the repression that blacks had to suffer for so many years at the hands of white minority government, quite frankly i am really surprised that they decided to go forward the way that they did.

My expectation was that it would be forced repossessions with minimal amounts of money being exchanged or even worse people being burnt off the land by force.

It is a testament to the great leadership shown by Mandela in guiding people away from the road to violence - which would have been so easy - and revenge.

 

[Job]

Everyone treats it like the whites went in there and took control of all the money and power and turned the population into slaves.

There was f*k all there to start with,a black south african has still won the lottery of Africa, OK he had his own bars and buses that were crap, but at least he had something.

OK the whites treated them like second class citizens, but it was still miles better than their tribal leaders had before.

When the ANC under Mandela started bombing schools, do you think they got the dynamite from the local black owned TNT outlet?
Cars, buses, drinkable water, electricity, control of epedemics, roads, relative
safety, they were still throwing spears at each other and living in mud huts before the whites.
Now they have tin shacks and guns..that's progress for ya!

 

[Lamp]

the only thing that surprised me about this story is not that it happened but that it took so long to happen