run for ML3 sunday June 13th, 15:00h CET

[Inca]

If you read Inga's pre-reqs thread you will see there is now the need for them before this raid. There has been raids launched on Wednesday and another tonight (Thursday) which unfortunately i cannot make. If any1 would like to organise a raid for Saturday or even Sunday before the raid I would happily join (Mend/Aug Healer), ideally some1 that has done them before and so knows the exact score with them.

 

[Sangfagel]

Sign me up ... Lvl 50 SM supp Vit

 

[muttlee]

change to my last post instead of deathwatch and raty il load todann and fun pre steps all done.
so out of life takers will be:
blacksnake 50 warrior
frigdinn 50 aug shammy
todann 50 warrior
fun 50 cave shammy

 

[charmangle]

SM lvl 50 supp + Healer lvl 50 pac/mend

Howdi again Inga!

Ulas and Draakenberg is joining in.

Lets hope it goes of as well as the last one (Or even better who knows

/Ulas

 

[sevril]

comming with my skald Sevril

 

[Rustan]

Ok ill be there with Warrior, finally did all the prereqs. And if I did them all so can anyone .. so I hope there will be no carebear stuff like all helping someone that forgot to do them.

 

[Grim]

I'll be there with Savage and shammy

 

[Jakus Morgan]

Hoping to come along with RvR Shammy & BB shammy

 

[ansgarr]

Il be there with ciitada!

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

As usual, the groups!

---- **** Group  1 **** ----

Ingafgrinn	Ingafgrinn	49 Healer	Aug
Nuky		Denthor		50 Shaman
Exellenze	Aaal		50 Skald
Fayle		Fayle		50 Healer	Mend/Pac
Ixoth		Ixoth		50 Thane	Shield
Thornar		Thornar		50 Berserker
Zarbrina	Gralgair	50 Shadowblade
Coolan		Coolan		50 Berserker


---- **** Group  2 **** ----

Folly		Folly		-- Healer	Aug/Mend
Keeilb		BufffffMeeee	50 Shaman	Aug
Azathrim	Maza		50 Shaman
""		Lotraz		50 Shadowblade
Isileth		Isileth		50 Hunter
Svendoc		Svenbow		-- Hunter
Damon_D		Damon		50 Shaman	Aug
""		Dhakar		50 Spiritmaster	Supp		??


---- **** Group  3 **** ----

SkarIronfist	Skarmedidoc	50 Healer	Aug/Mend
Muttlee		Todann		50 Warrior
""		Fun		50 Shaman	Cave
""		Blacksnake	-- Warrior
""		Frigdinn	-- Shaman	Aug
Ayana		Ayanas		50 Spiritmaster	Supp
Delete		Zodar		50 Shadowblade
""		Bufflars	50 Shaman	Aug


---- **** Group  4 **** ----

Lendan		Rimn		50 Healer	Aug/Mend
Redan		Truls		50 Shaman
GV-Miera	Mieramy		50 Shaman	Cave/Aug
Mouser		Zerg		-- Savage
Caspian		Torgue		50 Spiritmaster	Supp
Harm		Harmless	50 Warrior
Aferin		Aferin		50 Shaman	Aug/Mend
Tiskani		Tiskani		50 Warrior


---- **** Group  5 **** ----

Limbo		Leanara		50 Healer	Mend/Pac
Jakus		Jakedot		50 Shaman	Cave
""		Jakebot		50 Shaman
Bremen		Bremitta	50 Warrior
Xenia		Gimlie		50 Warrior
Mymos		Cuthath		50 Bonedancer	Supp
Sangfagel	Vit		50 Spiritmaster	Supp
Sevril		Sevril		-- Skald


---- **** Group  6 **** ----

Galaha		Galaha		-- Shaman
Inca		Zeppelin	50 Healer	Mend/Aug
Kragh		Roweyn		50 Huntress
""		Chuk		50 Shaman
Virragain	Virragain	-- Berserker
Swebully	Swebull		50 Warrior
Pjuppe		Natalyah	50 Hunter
Balhar		Snoxs		50 Savage


---- **** Group  7 **** ----

Er-Murazor	Siiri		50 Healer	Mend/Aug
Thrildif	Thrildif	50 Shaman	Cave/Aug
Darac		Darac		50 Shadowblade
""		Sheraz		50 Shaman	Aug/Mend
Hombrea		Hombrea		-- Spiritmaster	Supp
Trazz		Antraz		-- Shadowblade
Iceflower	Loh		-- Runemaster	Dark
Ironlung

---- **** Group  8 **** ----

Charmangel	Draakenberg	50 Healer
""		Ulas		50 Spiritmaster
Brightmind	Grymming	-- Shadowblade
""		Brightbot	-- Shaman
Brelakor	Ailelun		-- Savage
""		--		-- Shaman
Tsalin		Uro		49 Warrior
Matrix		Vanguar		50 Shadowblade


---- **** Group  9 **** ----

Megarevs	Megarevs	50 Healer	Mend/Pac
Plik		--		47 Warrior
""		--		50 Shaman
Kvadi		Sleekit		50 Shadowblade
""		--		-- Shaman			??
Ansgarr		Ciitada		50 Bonedancer
Slitzzz		--		-- --
Rustan		Saffronn	-- Warrior

---- **** Group 10 **** ----

HuZMoR		--		-- Healer	Mend/Pac
""		--		-- Shaman	Aug
Grim		--		-- Savage
""		--		-- Shaman
	---empty spot---
	---empty spot---
	---empty spot---
	---empty spot---

 

[Tsalin]

Wont b able to make this one inga, my son was born on wednesday didnt manage to get the prereq's done

 

[Keeilb]

Gratz

 

[Kraben]

Hum thought I already signed up for this..

Oh well Krarrow ( hunter ) and Krabuff ( shaman ) signing up. Can play both pretty actively but prefer having them both in same group.

 

[ansgarr]

lol 9 groups..we could do two ML5 hunts simultanéosly

 

[SkarIronfist]

Ok with this many people it should be straight forward. The only problem is making sure you stick to the raid laider.

So add /macro RL /target ingafgrinn to your task bar and life will be alot easier.

And then /follow

 

[hrorvaig]

Wasnt sure if i would have the time for this, but finally i know i will, so Hrorvaig, lvl50 warrior signing up. Know its kinda late so ill try to grab a random group if you cant include me in the groupsetup...

 

[Joohl]

Spellcrafter RM (rc47/sup26)
Trocca Sh (Aug47/cave23/mend13) +11%stat +16%heal

 

[ansgarr]

bleh, nerf. Something else showed up i gotta take care of in RL.

Good luck with the hunt!!

 

[Inca]

It would be easy for a lot of people to pick up on the fact that raid was one of the worst they have been on and simply blame everything and everyone. These people would be bang out of order. Alot of people would also blame Ingafgrinn for the raids problems, and again would be bang out of order.

First of all a big gratz to Ingafgrinn for running the raid. A quick check on the forums will show that in the past month no1 has run more raids than Inga, it takes time, patience and organisation... but more than that its very unrewarding. Raid leaders don't get more loot, don't get more steps/ml's/xp, anything... so what they do is deserving of praise if nothing else. (cept the few selfish mofo raid leaders than pre decide loot to themselves).

So around 80-90% of the people that stuck with the raid got the ML, so lets look at those that didn't. Some people went to defend keeps, afk etc etc and so missed steps, not the raids problem. Some people didn't have the pre-req's, again not the raid's problem. Then there were a few unlucky people who claimed they should get steps and didn't... to them if it is genuine (knowing some of the same players i would say it was) then thats bad luck, bs programming that u don't get credits and tbh very unfortunate. That said it is not the raid leaders fault, he has done everything he can, done the step, not much more he can do.

So clearly alot of positives and i wud be the first to defend Ingafgrinn for his efforts on theres topics.

That said there were some negatives, i won't criticise any1 only suggest ways to avoid these problems next time. First of all the raid (no loot) took 6 hours which is a long time and we have to address why. Last week on ML2 we had a lot of complaints about redoing steps for single players who had been afk or late for the raid. This week that was actually worse... The number of steps we did multiple times for the people who knew they were late or were afk, or in 1 30 minute 5 times of completeing, instance, nowhere near the encounter.... well it was a joke. Players who are afk, nowhere near the encounter or simply stupid should not ask for repeated steps, its not fair on the raid. That said the raid leader kept allowing this to happen, pleasing 1 player at the frustration of 100. This happened far too much which on top of last week was infuriatating to the point a lot of people left. Also 1 player screwed up 3 encounters by not listening and being active (although he claimed it was 2 different players on the steps- prooving that both were complete idiots) and yet still was allowed to finish the raid. 1 mistake everyone makes from time to time, but this guy took the piss which while devastating to the raid and its players, also makes others think that the raid leader is just someone to be walked over.

Too many times we went back for players who had wandered off or been afk while the group was moving and quite simply thats just not fair on the players who do stay at the keys for the raid. Ld is slightly different but again we went everytime back for sum1, waiting 5 mins for sum1, redoing steps for sum1. If your gonna take 100 people on a raid then u have to be firm at the start, single and small ld's cannot hold up the raid, most players are open minded enough to realise this without even it being said, but the raid leader above all others should know this.

Loot was the last big problem, the raid leader should set some1 (other than himself) as treasurer at the start of the raid. This player should be trusted and takes the responsibility of all loot (using the /bg command). Its his job to check each cnounter, was their loot? did i get it? bugs/full inven etc sumtimes prevent this. When lotto'ing people should be realistic. 35 utility, no TOA bonus 97% quality armour should not be bid for before MP 65 utility left axes. Don't roll for 20 gold salvage loot, destroy it, do whatever just stick to the decent drops. Nice and simple post the item, everyone rolls. I have a personal issue which isn't the point of this thread, but if you are eligbile for an item and roll for it, you should get it, not if the raid leader chooses than you didn't apply to roll?? wtf is that ? keep it simple, paste item, roll and keep it moving. 1 hour to loot about 2 keys and maybe 8-10 decent items is a joke, 15 mins tops it should be.

What i suggest is not to "whine" as some idiot will doubtless say, and its not even to simply make the raid more successful. This post is also for the raid leader, he is going to take a lot of flak about raids like this and for his own sanity these simple steps will make 100 people and himself far happier. Another idea as well would be to post in /bg about the step we are going to do, rather than just letting everyone spam in. At one point 2 dozen people are spamming "not got credit" when we hadn't even finished the step, another bit 15 people spmmed which steps they needed etc etc... 100 people on the raid this is gonna take some time Post at the start, no1 talks to NPC's etc or does any part of a raid without raid leaders says so, yes everyone should know but no harm in making every thing simple for people. Also you ask when you wanna know if steps have been done, don't let people spam, get things a little more disciplined and everyone will be happier.

One last point is /bg. Throughout the raid everyone was spamming /bg and acheiving little. Should it have been moderated? thats your call but if you don't then you need to make fairer decisions so people don't have as many frustrations to spam. Communicate a little more and people won't have as much to say. If you do choose to moderate then add the group leaders so they can speak for their group. On this raid 2 players were added as leaders for no discernable reason, neither had done ML3 before, nor were they group leaders, they just happened to spam at the right time. On this raid the only time it was moderated was during loot split, ironically possibly the time to unmoderate as you were talking to people then on /s!

Like i said bare in mind all sensible players will credit Inga for leading this raid, it is a ballache plain and simple and he still did it even after some hassle last week. I am sure people have their own points to raise but i imagine they are on a similar line. Hopefully Inga won't be put off raids, but for his own patience a few of these ideas should be taken on board.

 

[SkarIronfist]

1. I don't go on a ML raid for the loot, infact the loot is only good for salvage. So lets not hang around and stress out about loot that no one gives a rats ass about.

I go on it to achieve the Master Level.

2. I spent 5.5 hours on a raid only to find that my keyboard locks up and I do a hard reboot and find myself back at Aerus missing 3.4/3.10.

3. That raid could have been done in 3 - 4 hours given the number of people we had on it. I can't begin to count the number of times we redid the same stage 2 - 4 times.

Each mob was not up for more than 60 seconds once we focused on it and killed it, yet we went back time and time again for people who just didnt pay attention.

Just because you have a raid leader, doesn't excuse you from the fact that you actually make the effort to read about what a raid entails.

It makes me laugh, how many idiots we had, that just kept talking to NPCs and triggering trials. So next time, try and think that you are not annoying your group, but 100+ other people who have to hang around because you are to stupid to follow instructions and force everyone else to redo a step.

The basic rules are ...

1. DONT SPEAK TO NPC;s UNLESS YOU RAID LEADER HAS SAID SO.
2. SET /BG TO ONLY ALLOW GROUP LEADERS TO SPEAK.
3. NO ONE GIVES A RATS ASS ABOUT LOOT, JUST A QUICK ML RAID
4. IF YOU GO AFK, THEN YOU TAKE YOUR CHANCE THAT YOU HAVEN'T STUCK TO A CAVE WALL. There are a few MLs you can go AFK on, ML3 is not one of them.

 

[Ixoth]

I'd like to add that Ingaf should have add some kind of restriction of amount of the ppl involved to the raid. Its just ML3 for crying out loud, there don't need to be 1/4 of Prydwen server population in the same raid.

If I had organizer the raid I would make it so that there would be tops 5 groups (yet these would be optimized). Sure ppl can come to the gathering place, in hopes that ppl signed for the raid hasn't come - thus the spot of the person who signed up to the raid would be filled with some lucky one in the gathering place.

Principle would be analog to the Bluesky's dragon raids in that sence..

 

[Svendoc]

Firstly thank you Ingafgrinn for organising Raid, and congratulations all those who stuck it out to achieve the ML, unfortunately some of use could not stay for the full 6hrs :/

Have to agree with Skarironfist on all points

Ixoth I understand what you are saying but dont think you can really organise a raid of lets face it mainly players alts to be fully optimised, what about chars that dont fit the mold do you not put them through ML's?

I did get frustrated at the amount of time we spent repeating stages over and over and over again. I see that Inga was tryign to get everyone through the whole ML but doing every stage so many times at the cost of the vast majority was not probably the wisest of policies.

The point at which lost my temper was when the Zerg split in 2 and there was no clear direction as to 1) where to meet up 2) What Ml we were going to attempt so we could make our way there. Was Time to log

 

[Thrildif]

Would also like to send thanks to Ingaf for doing the organising. With 100+ people there then you're guaranteed for some people to miss certain bits.. LD's, AFK's, missed rezzes etc.. whatever the reason.

It's got to be very hard trying to balance getting as many people through a really crappy ML and trying to keep everyone happy. Idiots kicking off trials when they haven't been listening doesn't help one bit of course!

Have to say I agree with Skar's set of rules.. they should be stuck to a persons forehead with a staple gun if they screw up too many times

 

[Kraben]

Firstly kodus for a completed raid, Ingaf.

I agree with Skar on all points.. Especially the loot. I found it ridicolous that ppl are getting spammed to pick up drops from comon mobs. That being some semi rare scrolls or whatever - its not that we are there for! It just adds even more time sink and grief to the raid. Of course when slaying the named mobs which drops MP pieces, lw incredients, SoD etc - we should also make sure all loot is picked up, but ONLY then imo.

Also for the prearranged groups posted here on FH.. I know it was done in good faith and yes, if it had been carried out as supposed to, it would be very good. Although on a raid with 120 ppl its rather naive to think that ALL is gonna keep their groupspots and be disciplined to get in the right groups. With raid's of this proportion it just _cant_ be done. Maybe 1-2 MA groups set in the beginning to tank the MAIN mobs and rest just zerg.

 

[Redan]

First off gratz in inga for herding this many people though the raid, i think 80% or so completed ML3, so not a bad result.

I think the main downsides of the raid was too many people, IMO 5 to 6 fg's is more than enough. Also Ing m8, you need to toughen up a bit, some of those trials we did 5 times or so, i know you wanted to get as many people as possible credit but took wayyyyyy to long, some of peoples stupidity during the raid was down to boredom, lack of concentration etc

To close, good job again Ing, whens the next set of raids. And to all those experts who were there, try leading an FFA raid before you slag off someone who puts the effort in

 

[Iceflower]

Yup thank you for holding this one.

For the future I strongly suggest you read skars rules again, they are needed when you herd around so many people. That and harsh hand a la Fetstryk. Enforcing discipline makes wonders for cutting down the raid time

>Idiots kicking off trials when they haven't been listening doesn't help one bit of course!

Ye, however, that a handful of players treated the bc as their personal chatchannel wasnt exactly helpful to make sure you catcht all of ingas orders. And scrolling the chat box in a the kind of Lag-O-Rama you get from this kind of zerg is bloody hard. Suspect more than just me suffered in that respect.

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

First of all, I'd like to thank everyone that showed up and helped made this raid (kind of)a success. This is the third major event I organised so yeah, I'm still learning aswell, and thus do make mistakes.
About the time taken for the raid (6 hrs) well.. it's known that ml3 is a timeconsuming one, so compared to ml2 duration was improved. there are certainly things to change so it can all go a bit quicker.. but with 100+ people joining there are and always will be things that go wrong, like trials that only give credit to a certain amount of players, or trials that are bugged, whatever. This takes time, and if that means doing the trials over and over again, so be it. It's not something I enjoy, infact it's something I hate, but it can't always be avoided.

Organising something like this takes up a lot of time, from the first line written of the openingspost to the /quit after event, and it does drain me quite a bit on the day itself, but there's someone that gotta do it. and well.. it litterally is exhausting, therefor I expect all the attendees to have some idea what they can and cannot do. Talking about soccer over /bu is ofcourse not-done, so is spamming something like "I still need trial 2 5 6 7 10, is that right?". I hate to put the battlegroup on listen mode, cos I do very much like to hear suggestions and such so I count on you guys to be wise enough to know what to avoid here. There's a reason I also always open a chatgroup.

Decisions I make during a raid are sometimes wrong, I know. But it's hard to leave someone alone after they went LD just before an encounter. especially when they already have invested so much time for it. Therefor I sometimes decide to go back and get them, but in the end I just couldn't do that anymore cos it just took up too much time. this aswell is a learning process but I guess it'll always be a hard decision. In the end I even left one of my better ingame friends alone at trial 3.4 because it just took up too much time to get him back after his pc crashed. but also here I want you to just do as I say, and if I order you all to go back, how silly the reason may be, you go back, and do not just start a trial or start to discuss. 'Cos it's not the walking back and forth that takes time but the arguing about it.

About the things like loot and stuff.. the time consumed was not because loot had to be picked up, but people starting to discuss why they didn't want to do that. It doesn't concern me wether or not u like it. Fact is that I am the raidleader, so if I say you have to pick up loot, you do so. It's not a democracy. Ofcourse I'm not gonna whine about some coin laying around but if I see fairly expensive scrolls about I get aggitated for it doesn't take much effort to spam [nearest loot]+[g] immediately after you killed a mob and before you move on to the next one. Same with pets. If I say to kill 'em, you kill 'em.. it's that simple. We don't need them anyway with 100+ peeps and it saves a lot of lag. I do not feel the need to explain the reason for everything I order, especially not during the raid.
Lootdistro went a bit wrong, I'm the first to admid that, but well.. I was quite burned out after the raid, and I forgot to point out a lootdistributor before that. Also something to take with me in the next raid. Also, I never take anything for myself. I don't feel I need something, well the things I want can't be gotten during ML raids. only thing I really want and will take <say for privided services> is the ML9 remains. For all I care you all can get the rest.

There's nothing more I feel I should say except that well... taking in account that there were a whole bunch of people that did get ML3, so in that case we did succeed

Cheers mates for joining!!