Rules And Guidelines for My ML Raids.

[Nausilus^^]

I didn't do Durgi's raids..

 

[feril]

after all moste times i join the ML raids its becuse i need a item that drops somewhere that i cant farm, coz im already ml10 with my main. beside that its fun to chat with some crazy peeps and have fun.. but i will never do i hole raid and if the rare item drops and after 5hours vavires says i cliam that.. hmm i dont even got a chans to roll on the item.. its ok for me if he cliams an item befor the raid.. if the item dont drops he will roll on the other items like any mortal one in the BG.

Koxi dont forget to announce to us in Norrsken allaince.. I will gladly join up on the ml's and so will mostly of us in Norrsken i suppose.

 

[Skrad]

Gotta admit, I too think that reserving the right to pick the best item that drops from a raid is rather poor form. My reasons are pretty much those stated by the others in this thread so I won't bore you with repetition

 

[Lilinallte]

So vonwar koxine etc bunch off ppl who said here now that they never liked ppl who claimed items on their raids etc ? howcome u dindt do all this posting about drugis claiming off stuff off his raids and so on all the times we did artifacts for durgi when passing the mobs with ml raids ?

Hehehe, let's take the lid of the bin.... People, this is better than any soap on TV

 

[charmangle]

Raids or No Raids...

Ive just read through this thread and got to thinking...

As far as I can tell there are a few issues here that should be abit seperated for the discussion to be able to be held in an orderly manner.

Question 1:
Is it right for a raidleader to get a reward for the work he puts in ?
Question 2:
At what time is it okay to change rules for a raid ?
Question 3:
Is Vavires a nice enough guy when leading his raids ?
Question 4:
Is Vavires handling himself on other players raids ?


In my opinion these questions are separate and should not be mixed together or the discussion becomes more a crusade than critisism. I dont defend Vavires here nor do I judge him. I just put my own opinion out there.

4:
This point has in my opinion nothing at all to do with leading a raid and therefor has very little in this discussion to do. When a raidleader joins another leaders raid he is to be treated as any one else in the raid. Meaning that if he doesnt follow the raidleaders rules then he is subject to the same punishments as the rest of the raid.

3:
Well I for one likes it more when the raidleader tries to be nice and keep the tone down. Sometimes it gets frustrating for a raidleader but its nice if the raidleader tries to keep these tantrums to a minimum. It is also important for a raidleader to carefully explain each step before they start so that even newbeginners gets a chance to avoid making mistakes that will lead to said tantrums from the raidleader.

But ultimatly it is a persons own choice weather he wants to join a certain raid or not, and base that decision on his own opinion of the raidleader.

2:
Well this can be discussed in length ofc. In my opinion its the same timelimit as I feel is the cancelling/changing date on a raid. Enough time for people to have a chance to read about it. (For me thats about 1 day before or so)

1:
Now for the biggie...
It all boils down to what we want for the realm.
If we show our appreciation for those raidleaders that stick with it we will get raidleaders who know their MLs good and we will get happier leaders. They feel more appreciated and do a better job.
I must ask myself. Why would it be that people think that letting the one that actually puts in the most effort and work into a raid dont feel that, that person could get a little something for it? Someone in the raid would have gotten that item anyway so why not the one that put in the most work. Especially as that will make it an incentive to keep doing raid after raid even when his/her chars dont need them any more.


I dont want to take sides here, since I think there are good arguments from both sides. But I do think that we should treat those with enough stamina to keep organizing raids with abit more appreciation than we have up till now. (Not commenting on this particular case rather than generally speaking). Organizing new raids is a good thing so to me the more raidleaders there are the better. And if we get raidleaders that stick with it even better...

On the subject in this thread I must say I stand on both sides. I do think Vavires can be abit rash, abit too harsh, and could use to chill abit during some of his raids as well as on the boards here when it comes to other peoples times of raids etc. But I also think that his stamina with organizing raids has done the realm more good than most other people on the server.

So my humble suggestion would be if I was asked (darnit ill give it even though I wasnt asked

To Vavires:
Take it abit easy when handling with people. Dont forget that there are people behind the graphics on the screen. When you get mad at someone they react much like RL people!

To the other side:
Good on you for organizing more raids! I for one will join as many raids as I can even though I dont need them if only to help the realm out. Only, dont do it as some kind of revenge towards Vavires. A raidleader war is never good for the realm as a whole. Do it because you need them or want to help others that need them!

Make love not war!

/Charmangle

 

[Lilinallte]

The whole thing that got this started, was the fact Vavires changed the rules of a raid like 10 seconds before it was supposed to start. And from the reactions in this thread, one could say that that step was like the 'limit' for alot of people.

Eventhough this discussion is mostly about situations that happened before that 'limit' was reached, basically what pissed off people the most is the arrogance of a raid leader, who 10 seconds before a raid starts decides to change the rules, by adding a rule that is not for the better of the whole raid and/or participants, but only and solely for his own benefit.

No matter how people twist, turn, add or take away, in basis that's what the whole comotion is about. And quite frankly: I was on that raid, and had to leave because of lag. Evenso, and people in my group can back me up on that, I said there and then, that this would be the last raid lead by Vavires I had been on. Only reason I stayed, is because I did need the ML-XP.

For weeks things have been 'stirring' around Vavires. More people have stated that he was becoming too big for his shoes, and because Mr. Vavires did not change his ways, but in fact went a step further (thinking there would be nobody else making ML raids, therefor believing his position was secure), people got realy annoyed and hence this discussion came into existance.

Now, we can all make this a general discussion, and try to make it something about what can and what can't be done as a raid leader. But quite frankly, and I think deep down we all know, this whole discussion isn't general at all, but very, very personal. It's not about how raids should be led by the raid leader, it's about how Vavires is leading his raids.

To be honest, I don't think there's much of a problem realy. The way I see it one of two things will happen: either alot of people decide to not go on Vav-raids anymore, resulting in Vavirus not having enough people to run a raid, which would mean the problem is solved (seeing there's enough other people organizing). Or, enough people think Vavirus is a swell guy and like his rules, or can put up with him and his rules, enough to keep going on his raids. This also would mean the problem is solved.

So, either way, problem solved

Q.e.d.

 

[charmangle]

Might be very true...

The whole thing that got this started, was the fact Vavires changed the rules of a raid like 10 seconds before it was supposed to start. And from the reactions in this thread, one could say that that step was like the 'limit' for alot of people.

Eventhough this discussion is mostly about situations that happened before that 'limit' was reached, basically what pissed off people the most is the arrogance of a raid leader, who 10 seconds before a raid starts decides to change the rules, by adding a rule that is not for the better of the whole raid and/or participants, but only and solely for his own benefit.

No matter how people twist, turn, add or take away, in basis that's what the whole comotion is about. And quite frankly: I was on that raid, and had to leave because of lag. Evenso, and people in my group can back me up on that, I said there and then, that this would be the last raid lead by Vavires I had been on. Only reason I stayed, is because I did need the ML-XP.

For weeks things have been 'stirring' around Vavires. More people have stated that he was becoming too big for his shoes, and because Mr. Vavires did not change his ways, but in fact went a step further (thinking there would be nobody else making ML raids, therefor believing his position was secure), people got realy annoyed and hence this discussion came into existance.

Now, we can all make this a general discussion, and try to make it something about what can and what can't be done as a raid leader. But quite frankly, and I think deep down we all know, this whole discussion isn't general at all, but very, very personal. It's not about how raids should be led by the raid leader, it's about how Vavires is leading his raids.

To be honest, I don't think there's much of a problem realy. The way I see it one of two things will happen: either alot of people decide to not go on Vav-raids anymore, resulting in Vavirus not having enough people to run a raid, which would mean the problem is solved (seeing there's enough other people organizing). Or, enough people think Vavirus is a swell guy and like his rules, or can put up with him and his rules, enough to keep going on his raids. This also would mean the problem is solved.

So, either way, problem solved

Q.e.d.

If the foundation for the discussion is the change by vavires just a few minutes before the raid then I couldnt agree more. (Im trying to keep the discussion general because I do think raidleaders in general get to put up with way to much and would like to change that so that we get even better and even more motivated raidleaders than we already have.)

And as you say if a raidleader behaves badly he will not get enough people on his raids to keep organizing them!

/Charmangle

 

[Brite]

very well said koxi i also note u discourage others from leading raids ..'its too hard for you this' or 'wait for my next set'..u disrespected gustavs raid on ml8 not only by spamming incessantly which u dont tolerate, but questioning every step even misnumbering then in an efort to criticise trying to make people look small etc..poor form.
Fair enough u lead raids but I think maybe many are seeing u lead them for urself as much if not more than midgard. I for one did not understand why when others volunteered/asked to take over an ml2 raid in ur place when u had pcs probs u discouraged them because it would mean one ur chars wouldnt get the ml... You went one and bold typed if u respect me at all u wont go ahead...well your one person if u respect your realm who are you to demand that up to 40+ppl shouldnt have gone ahead with a raid? or to predemand loot with little warning...

just my 2 cent

ps and yes i have lead many raid weather they be mls or otherwise and never claimed anything i didnt win by my roll

Was a bit miffed when he was getting quite annoyed at other people arranging ML raids as if he had the copyright on it or somthing, he even said a few words to me when i organised a ml1 and 2 for my warlock (which is now in the bin where it belongs with all other warlocks) I think this must have been planned to claim an item, seems quite convienient as it gets towards the high end mls where the greater drops are, he decides to claim

Ive not been back much and not been on his raids, can understand being angry when a whole raid is not listening but otherwise no point in it. Vav to me doesnt seem like an expeinced player at all, as i said ive not been back on too much since NF but ive been on a couple of his raids that didnt seem to bad, but i had to help him finish ML2.10 as he wiped the raid a couple of times and while in PoC his whole group got killed by a single BM (several times) which i killed with my shaman ;P

From what ive seen of vav he seems like a nice guy, if vastly inexperienced well done for organising the raids but if you feel its such a job you have to take items maybe its time to let someone else take over

oh and i still need ml6 +8, 9, 10 on my shaman ill attend raids drops claimed or not as personally i dont care, apart from maybe 9 or 10 as there drops are quite priceless

 

[vavires]

Heh, I don't know where to start with this.

Well first, the half of the ppl here idc what they said, cause either they already disliked me from the start or are imo troublemakers that like discusions like this (from reading on other topics) swat.

To say something to brite first, Getting a group wiped in poc has nothing to do with me, im alone in a 8-player group. Every person has his knoledge about things, i can admit at that time i knew shit about RvR, since i hardly played again since NF released(comp down for 4 months). U had ure bd with ml9 and ure shammy... well like u said, its in the bin?
Then about that ml 2.10 Ask ovron, i even /tell him for extra info on my last ml 2, i hate ml2.10, I always have trouble with the step, but at least i didnt sugested using my BD pets to runa round actvating traps did i?

Next point, I wont claim drops since u all object on it on my Raids, but since i get all this love and respect im not sure if ill do any more after going to 10 now.

Eum, here's a funy thing, i am getting 'without exagerating' at least 10-20 tells after a raid saying either, good job, or spamming me for when i do this or that raid again. Does this mean u all wanne take advantage of me doing raids? Everybody in my vieuw ofcourse liked my raids, and they wanted more and more, and now that i wanted to pick an item, all turns in hell, tbh u all crack me up in a way for being so absurd for me taking ONE item, i thought u joined the raid for the ml? If taking 1 item ( and i said during ml4 btw, i only take what i need, so even if a stupid som3 worth 20p dropped, i would not claim it since i have no use for it).

Now, U say im arrogant, Shouting, Big Ego? I would love to hear u explain my big ego, also my arrogancy. Yes i shout, and i curse even to on my raids, but thats only Because ppl do not listen, i have ppl telling me to be more strict on the rules, that they cant tolerate this or that person, I wait for every LD, I let a group get their presteps when we were on the fortress! How can i be better at how i do my raids than do these things? If i dont treathen to boot ppl, they will contineu and u know it. Some1 has to be the bad guy in this, and its always me, since im the Raidleader, imo if i was doing so bad u all like to say now? Why didn't you just say it in BG, or in a tell, why do u throw it here after all my raids at a discusion about taking a silly item? Yes i host ml's for myself, but i host em for the others to, i mostly do the presteps, not for myself cause i need only 1 group for it, i do it with 3,4 2 groups ect, to help them, i even help the ppl asking for help during the steps

If i am really as bad as u all are saying, then u need to learn to get to know me better.

I dont know if i said all i wanted to say, but i had to work today from 4.30am , and im too tired to post these long messages.

Cya all later,
greets Vavires

 

[Nausilus^^]

You're both right and wrong as I see it.

People attend raids to get ML's done, no doubt about that. When named drops and scrolls occur, it's that extra spice that makes it all the more interesting in the end when people lotto for those items. Some people even just go to ML raids to get those drops like I think Brite said, because those items simply are not farmable without a zerg.

When you pre-claim an item, you take away that little extra something.. the reward to us all for a long and successful raid. For some people, the only thing keeping them going on ML raids is knowing that there will be lotto for some very nice items at the end of the raid.. PvE isn't fun for everyone.

I say preclaiming an item is arrogant. The reason I think it's arrogant is that the image I get of a person preclaiming, is that he/she thinks he's better than everyone else, he lead the raid and thus he takes a reward for it.

Well guess what.. raid leaders aren't better than anyone else. You may be doing a good job, but you wouldn't do such a good job if you were on your own. A good raid is judged by the performance of the raid attendees (of course including the leader) but not by the leader himself.

I'm sure you want respect from the people who go to your raids, but I suggest you show respect to the people you'd like to join your raids first.

 

[belxavier]

So vonwar koxine etc bunch off ppl who said here now that they never liked ppl who claimed items on their raids etc ? howcome u dindt do all this posting about drugis claiming off stuff off his raids and so on all the times we did artifacts for durgi when passing the mobs with ml raids ?

I personally didnt do durgis raids went on or lead others and got 4 ml10 chars and 1 ml8 despite that. I have no problem if vaviries is now not takeing a drop, main issue was changeing rules and not claiming an item which is needed like (eg a specific one for sc template from 1 ml im sure noone would begruddge if dropped). Though ppl who dont need the ml but join for mlexp/items also lose out so i dont its fair for u to criticize ppl who complained here saying i thought u wanted mls..items and ml exp are part of the effort and one and all spends hours doing the steps imho. Though it should be forgotten if vav has seen the error of his ways and should i be online even tho i dont need the steps will still come along to help.

 

[Gustav]

Next point, I wont claim drops since u all object on it on my Raids, but since i get all this love and respect im not sure if ill do any more after going to 10 now.

you are a good man and I overreacted. I hope you can accept my appogoly. I think you have done a uber thing for this realm and I will not mess up your raids. I would rather work with you than against you.

If you want me to run an ml9 raid and have you a get a chance to get to know it better than by all means let me know.

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

You're both right and wrong as I see it.

People attend raids to get ML's done, no doubt about that. When named drops and scrolls occur, it's that extra spice that makes it all the more interesting in the end when people lotto for those items. Some people even just go to ML raids to get those drops like I think Brite said, because those items simply are not farmable without a zerg.

When you pre-claim an item, you take away that little extra something.. the reward to us all for a long and successful raid. For some people, the only thing keeping them going on ML raids is knowing that there will be lotto for some very nice items at the end of the raid.. PvE isn't fun for everyone.

I say preclaiming an item is arrogant. The reason I think it's arrogant is that the image I get of a person preclaiming, is that he/she thinks he's better than everyone else, he lead the raid and thus he takes a reward for it.

Well guess what.. raid leaders aren't better than anyone else. You may be doing a good job, but you wouldn't do such a good job if you were on your own. A good raid is judged by the performance of the raid attendees (of course including the leader) but not by the leader himself.

I'm sure you want respect from the people who go to your raids, but I suggest you show respect to the people you'd like to join your raids first.

Have you ever, just ever organised something like a masterlevel raid? Any idea what a timesink only the organising is? any clue what a raidleader actually does during the raid? I can type blind at 300 hits per minute, and that wasn't enough at my raids... Do you have any idea what the stresslevels are when you get the blame for everything that goes wrong (hell, I've gotten blamed for not waiting on people going ld and getting back 15 minutes later pm'ing me that I was a twat or whatever for not waiting)

Raid leaders may not be better then anyone else... but they certainly deserve the respect and whining about an item? do you do that in real life? if you call some company cos something is broken, do you whine at them for charging you a certain amount of money to fix it? It's a service provided, and raidleaders in midgard have been extremely unselfish as I see it. I can very well imagine charging an item for the service provided, and only 1 item, even if it would've been the most expensive item out there, is still a very very very low cost for organising something like this.

 

[Azathrim]

Raid leaders may not be better then anyone else... but they certainly deserve the respect and whining about an item? do you do that in real life? if you call some company cos something is broken, do you whine at them for charging you a certain amount of money to fix it? It's a service provided, and raidleaders in midgard have been extremely unselfish as I see it. I can very well imagine charging an item for the service provided, and only 1 item, even if it would've been the most expensive item out there, is still a very very very low cost for organising something like this.

Only raid you preclaimed something on was ML9 where you took the Phoenix Remains.

As far as I remember, Bluesky and Ovron led and instructed the 9.1 to 9.9 encounters, while I did the 9.10 encounter. Your role was mostly to post on FH and recieve PM's from people Im sure. Yet you ran off with the remains. As your analogy, were was the subcontractors payment in that case?

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

Only raid you preclaimed something on was ML9 where you took the Phoenix Remains.

As far as I remember, Bluesky and Ovron led and instructed the 9.1 to 9.9 encounters, while I did the 9.10 encounter. Your role was mostly to post on FH and recieve PM's from people Im sure. Yet you ran off with the remains. As your analogy, were was the subcontractors payment in that case?

then call it a payment for the 9 ml's I led before that one... christ... always an answer ready...

 

[Zedenz]

Heh don't misread us Vav I think its great you lead raids and stuff, I think people are mostly upset in the manner in which you went about announcing the sudden rule change and the "I don't think its too much to ask" thing which sounded a bit arrogant like everybody owes you a favour etc.

I hope you don't stop doing raids though after this, just rethink your approach.

 

[Thrung]

Personally I don't mind raidleaders claiming item or items. Hell, for the work they're putting into organizing and leading a whole bussload of ppl, I wouldn't mind if the RL claimed all the loot.. is a bit over the top tho. But the ppl that have led these big zergs of LD'ing and AFK'ing ppl (well.. a few atleast) through all those steps surely knows how much stress etc that the GL has to endure.
I know I myself could never lead such a raid.. I've found myself mad and frustrated at Vavi's raids quite a few times, due to ppl talking to the NPCs when clearly told not to etc. Not been on all of his ML-raids ofc but I've never seen him freak out and/or overreact. In fact, I personally think he's being to nice at times imho.

Can understand why ppl reacted to Vavi's change of the rules tho, since it was well late perhaps.

Gonna stop typing now cause I'm a bit hammered.. But I think Vavi is a rly good guy and he certainly doesn't deserved to be flamed for wanting an item from a raid that wouldn't have been if it wasn't for him.

 

[MythieY]

Vavires, I must agree with above posters. U shouldn't (try) to guide nor comment other RL (expect when he/she) specifically asks for ur guidance in a raid where u participiate in.

And reserving right for any loot (and not stated even in the beginning of the raid) is low. Do it for a greater good, and not so selfishly focused to ur own personal gain.

You don't get most ppl respect if u fail in those two issues.

this is very well put, and i have to agree,

however i can see why vavires wishes to do this, he has been running these raids for a long time how, and not really gained much from it, in terms of items if you know what i mean...


, not that i agree with it

 

[charmangle]

Hmm...

Vavires, I must agree with above posters. U shouldn't (try) to guide nor comment other RL (expect when he/she) specifically asks for ur guidance in a raid where u participiate in.

And reserving right for any loot (and not stated even in the beginning of the raid) is low. Do it for a greater good, and not so selfishly focused to ur own personal gain.

You don't get most ppl respect if u fail in those two issues.

Well Vavires has put in alot of time on raids to help the realm already. More time than most. To go out and tell him to keep doing it for the greater good and not to be selfish shows an utter lack of respect for the work already put in. And I must say that I for one would just stop doing any raids what so ever if this is the kind of response I get.

Selfishness is not to expect a little something for work put in, selfishness is to expect others to do a job your are to lazy to do yourself. If you arent willing to put in the time and effort yourself, give those who do the respect that they deserve. You might not agree with him but dont call him selfish...

/Charmangle

 

[Zlugugg Benvis]

Vavires is a nice guy ... Vavires leading raids for Midgard is a nice thing ... Vavires preclaiming loot is not a nice thing ... I respect Vavires for holding raids and for beeing a nice guy (with a temper) ... If Im not satisfide with the raids his leading (temper or rules) I ll hold own raids (was a long time since last TG raid but I think I got a hang of how to lead raids), interfering or not ... until now I have been accepting his temper (as I know his really a nice guy, as you all are when not stressed etc) but I wont accept the item rule ... if you ... Vavires ... drop that pre-claiming rule, as you said you will ... I will countinue to come to your raids, and promote em and as a thanks for leading them, feel free to PM me anytime you need help getting an item for your temp or so, as most of us Mids are helpful by heart .

 

[Lilinallte]

If you want me to run an ml9 raid and have you a get a chance to get to know it better than by all means let me know.

Does this mean the ML9 raid from coming monday is not sure to go through?

 

[vavires]

Does this mean the ML9 raid from coming monday is not sure to go through?

By that he means that i asked himin his topic to do another, So i think his ml9 will just go as planned.


And tx for the kind words of some ppl

greets Vav.

 

[lzy]

hi mates,

i m not long here on the midagrd side of prydwen. ml raid by vavires have some things i dont like, but hey go through and mostly ends pretty nice. about item claiming: this is everyday thingie on the german servers, thats why there is no problem to find a raid, any raid in any time. coz every leader claims one drop he wants wfter raid ends. there are some exceptions rom that rule too, like ml5 bg raids, to less work for one claimed item. or ml10 too. the rest is ok, for claiming item.

this change vavi wanted to make will bring ppl to been more active in things like ML raids. For example me, i go my way in the ML raids, coz i know how to lead them, but i dont think i m gonna make some raid after i got my one and only char through to ml10. so let imo vavi take the drop and is good.

about leading the raids, only some steps in some raids are pain in the ass, the rrest is actually "read VoS, write in BG what stay in VoS and drink your beer". so i woould say the best way, is to preclaim the drop in the raid thread, like "if ligting etched sleeves will drop i take them" for ml8 for example.

peace guys

 

[Nausilus^^]

Have you ever, just ever organised something like a masterlevel raid? Any idea what a timesink only the organising is? any clue what a raidleader actually does during the raid? I can type blind at 300 hits per minute, and that wasn't enough at my raids... Do you have any idea what the stresslevels are when you get the blame for everything that goes wrong (hell, I've gotten blamed for not waiting on people going ld and getting back 15 minutes later pm'ing me that I was a twat or whatever for not waiting)

Raid leaders may not be better then anyone else... but they certainly deserve the respect and whining about an item? do you do that in real life? if you call some company cos something is broken, do you whine at them for charging you a certain amount of money to fix it? It's a service provided, and raidleaders in midgard have been extremely unselfish as I see it. I can very well imagine charging an item for the service provided, and only 1 item, even if it would've been the most expensive item out there, is still a very very very low cost for organising something like this.

Yes I have. I've had ML raids, artifact raids, dragonraids, scroll hunts.. you name it. I do know the stress level involved in being a raid leader. But if I were to preclaim an item, I'd feel like I was cheating the people who joined for the reasons I posted above. It's been said before, and I still believe it - ANYONE can arrange an ML raid if they use the guide from VoS, and a lot of people have done it out of need of ML's for their characters without preclaiming anything.
Now my turn to ask questions...
Have you ever been to a raid where the raid leader claimed the one and only item you were after? Where you gained absolutely NOTHING from attending the raid? It's like the most empty feeling you get for wasting 3-4 hours on a raid where you help the raid leader with his personal gains, but you gain nothing in return.
I think I've made my point as clear as possible.. preclaiming an item is not an option for a raid leader if I was joining a raid, and I wouldn't do it myself either... lotto for items should be on the same terms for everyone.

 

[Brite]

Heh, I don't know where to start with this.

Well first, the half of the ppl here idc what they said, cause either they already disliked me from the start or are imo troublemakers that like discusions like this (from reading on other topics) swat.

To say something to brite first, Getting a group wiped in poc has nothing to do with me, im alone in a 8-player group. Every person has his knoledge about things, i can admit at that time i knew shit about RvR, since i hardly played again since NF released(comp down for 4 months). U had ure bd with ml9 and ure shammy... well like u said, its in the bin?
Then about that ml 2.10 Ask ovron, i even /tell him for extra info on my last ml 2, i hate ml2.10, I always have trouble with the step, but at least i didnt sugested using my BD pets to runa round actvating traps did i?

Next point, I wont claim drops since u all object on it on my Raids, but since i get all this love and respect im not sure if ill do any more after going to 10 now.

Eum, here's a funy thing, i am getting 'without exagerating' at least 10-20 tells after a raid saying either, good job, or spamming me for when i do this or that raid again. Does this mean u all wanne take advantage of me doing raids? Everybody in my vieuw ofcourse liked my raids, and they wanted more and more, and now that i wanted to pick an item, all turns in hell, tbh u all crack me up in a way for being so absurd for me taking ONE item, i thought u joined the raid for the ml? If taking 1 item ( and i said during ml4 btw, i only take what i need, so even if a stupid som3 worth 20p dropped, i would not claim it since i have no use for it).

Now, U say im arrogant, Shouting, Big Ego? I would love to hear u explain my big ego, also my arrogancy. Yes i shout, and i curse even to on my raids, but thats only Because ppl do not listen, i have ppl telling me to be more strict on the rules, that they cant tolerate this or that person, I wait for every LD, I let a group get their presteps when we were on the fortress! How can i be better at how i do my raids than do these things? If i dont treathen to boot ppl, they will contineu and u know it. Some1 has to be the bad guy in this, and its always me, since im the Raidleader, imo if i was doing so bad u all like to say now? Why didn't you just say it in BG, or in a tell, why do u throw it here after all my raids at a discusion about taking a silly item? Yes i host ml's for myself, but i host em for the others to, i mostly do the presteps, not for myself cause i need only 1 group for it, i do it with 3,4 2 groups ect, to help them, i even help the ppl asking for help during the steps

If i am really as bad as u all are saying, then u need to learn to get to know me better.

I dont know if i said all i wanted to say, but i had to work today from 4.30am , and im too tired to post these long messages.

Cya all later,
greets Vavires

Think you got mixed up i wasnt having a go at you in anyway was just making those points to make my case that your inexperienced, and my bd wasnt even there when i killed the bm, just my shaman, and i meant the warlocks in the bin ;P As for ML2, i didnt know pets would affect the numbers inside, i dont know everything, i wont pretend that but ill be honest i wanted to get your raid finished asap so i could continue farming for a ML respec i needed, so i put together a solid group to do it. Inexperienced or not you still put in the effort thats what counts. No hard feelings i hope, you are a nice guy and put in the effort, i have led a few ML raids and i wouldnt choose to again, it is hard work.

Like many here i feel taking an item is maybe too much, you do have a vast amount of charecters which means many items would be useful to you. I think maybe asking the majority of the raid before implmenting such a rule as this, or asking on a raid if you could have an item, or even having a +mod like i said before. I'll still turn up to the raids as im not in any need, but feel sorry for people who will be.

 

[foreing]

just wait until he thinks hes uber in rvr,then it all starts over again
(how hard can it b read vos do as i say or i kick u.)

 

[Belomar]

Have you ever, just ever organised something like a masterlevel raid?

For myself, I have organized and run practically every ML raid in the game, both on this server and on another, and I have never claimed an item for my services. Raid leaders like Vavires (and you?) need to get off their high horses, you are not God's gift to the realm, and others can do what you have done. In fact, this complaint is quite rich, coming from you, someone who had to get a number of "officers" to run an ML9 raid while you just reaped the remains?

 

[Lilinallte]

this change vavi wanted to make will bring ppl to been more active in things like ML raids. For example me, i go my way in the ML raids, coz i know how to lead them, but i dont think i m gonna make some raid after i got my one and only char through to ml10. so let imo vavi take the drop and is good.

Vavires not only 'wanted' to make this change, he did so 10 seconds before the raid started. Furthermore, when people asked questions about that on the raid, he just laughed and basically told them to go by his rules or go away.

No matter what is said in here, I think Vavires owes the appology to the rest, not the other way around.

 

[Ixoth]

Vavires not only 'wanted' to make this change, he did so 10 seconds before the raid started. Furthermore, when people asked questions about that on the raid, he just laughed and basically told them to go by his rules or go away.

No matter what is said in here, I think Vavires owes the appology to the rest, not the other way around.

I agree. Changing rules before the raid took place wasn't clever at all (tbh), it was greedy. You should know better vavires...

 

[vavires]

just wait until he thinks hes uber in rvr,then it all starts over again
(how hard can it b read vos do as i say or i kick u.)

when i ever say onmy raids,
READ VOS, ill personally delete all my chars and leave daoc. I never say ppl to read vos, i explaign them all waht to do, and another thing, leading raids isnt that easy as u might make it sounds. U still have to make ppl listen to u and tell them where to go, vos doesnt always have the best tactics anymore as they used to either.

And to the rest of u, im getting annoyed now, i already said i wont get anything, So drop it or get a life. Life goes on withouth this shitty stuff, i have said what i wanted to say and wont add anything else, and about that gods guft to midgard, give it a rest will ya the more i read these post the more i c who is really arrogant here, its certainly not me.

last posts i did on this topic!
As its my topic i would appreciate the mods to close this and be done with it

greets vavires