Rule Changes for Game #3?

[RandomBastard]

I like itcheh's idea cause it also gives an element of doubt when it comes to the conversion, if noone is eaten have they been converted or did they hide?

 

[Will]

Conversion would only work in a large game, otherwise its too powerful an ability. The hide idea is a bit too complex tbh. It'd make the night stages of the game far longer as I'd need to get a message from everyone each night.

 

[RandomBastard]

nah make it so they'd have to request to hide before it gets dark

 

[Will]

Eh? If they request it in the thread, the werewolves would know who was hiding. If they aren't doing it until night, it doens't make sense to do it until the night action phase.

And that would get confusing, as they could hide from being killed too. And from the doctor, or the seer. Sorry, I don't like that rule. And I'm a despot, so its all up to me.

 

[TdC]

To be honest, I think the games should be mixed up a bit every time we play them. If we find a "perfect" setup, it's going to get old more quickly than if the set up is randomised.

yeah I agree. though we could at some point perhaps get to the level where we play several standardized games in a row, and the survivors play a random winning game?

Like a Vampire infects the village? (Maybe not)

Will and I were actually discussing Vamps at a point in the past, specifically because Vamps have minions, ie Thralls, working for them. However, we couldn't (or rather I couldn't) think it through because simply put, Vamps aren't about in the daytime, so it'll have to be something else

Oh and the wolves need time to plan a strategy before day 1 starts.

I guess they get at it right away, the dirty furries o0

And the Vampire idea reminds me of a "The Thing" stylised game I've read about, with infections and testing. It'd play very differently from this one, but maybe it'd make a nice change.

I'm all agog. How's that game go?

I think it might be interesting to see a bigger game, with an upper limit of players and more wolves, that would defintely add a new dimension to the levels of vote-swaying.

I'd love a really big game tbh.

I still like the 'convert' idea instead of a kill (maybe a one time only use?)

To counter that, maybe there could be another defence element for the villagers:

* each villager has a one use only 'hide'
* if the wolves visit their house they have used their 'hide' they aren't found and therefore survive the night

???

like it tbh. like it alot.


also, Will teh filthy despot! I always knew you were a closet autocrat

 

[Frizz]

Well how long would a big game last? People changing their votes every five minutes (game B) in a big game would take alot longer to finish than a game with 10 people and two wolves. So with 20 people in a game and four wolves (or 2 pairs), I reckon you're looking at an exponential increase in the time it takes to finish, by which point people would get bored and not bother voting.

So really, you'd need a time limit. And if there's two on the same number of votes, first person to vote decides?

 

[RandomBastard]

Eh? If they request it in the thread, the werewolves would know who was hiding. If they aren't doing it until night, it doens't make sense to do it until the night action phase.

And that would get confusing, as they could hide from being killed too. And from the doctor, or the seer. Sorry, I don't like that rule. And I'm a despot, so its all up to me.

I meant have it as a day action so it'd be pm'd to you during the day if you thought you were going to be munched. I think you're right about the confusion but it could be simplified to just hiding from the wolves, and not from the vig seer (the doctor wouldnt be affected after all?)

 

[Jupitus]

Vote: Will

























hehe how does it feel?

 

[Will]

I'm all agog. How's that game go?

Initially there are two things, and a load of uninfected.

Daytime is testing. If they test a thing, they can burn him, and then test again. If they get an uninfected, then it moves to night. First test is free, btw, so they get minimum two tests.

At night, the things infect one new uninfected. And then it is day again.

I'd love a really big game tbh.

How big are you looking for? I preferred the smaller game, but I'm open to try this. If we do a huge game, I'd stick in two competing gangs of wolves, since I really want to try it.

 

[TdC]

Well how long would a big game last? People changing their votes every five minutes (game B) in a big game would take alot longer to finish than a game with 10 people and two wolves. So with 20 people in a game and four wolves (or 2 pairs), I reckon you're looking at an exponential increase in the time it takes to finish, by which point people would get bored and not bother voting.

So really, you'd need a time limit. And if there's two on the same number of votes, first person to vote decides?

potentially yes, it could take ages. there will have to be a mechanism in place to speed the voting. I'm all for the discussions, but voting has to happen fast imo. perhaps voting changes prohibited?

Initially there are two things, and a load of uninfected.

Daytime is testing. If they test a thing, they can burn him, and then test again. If they get an uninfected, then it moves to night. First test is free, btw, so they get minimum two tests.

At night, the things infect one new uninfected. And then it is day again.

ah I get it. sounds fun imo. also, I wonder how that translates to the wolfgame? what if the wolves get to turn a char every couple of days?

How big are you looking for? I preferred the smaller game, but I'm open to try this. If we do a huge game, I'd stick in two competing gangs of wolves, since I really want to try it.

I also like the smaller games. Remember our talk on them? They're happening more or less like we expected, although the constant vote changes in game 2B was both a joy and a pain tbh. A game with 20+ people could and would drag a bit if you get a lot of chatty bitches in (like me), so we'd have to put things in place to keep it moving. As to what particularly, I'm unsure, rival wolf packs, etc, not clear atm.

 

[Will]

Rival wolf packs = two teams of wolves, so two kills a night, one by each pack. Each pack needs to end up being the only survivors. The faster pace of kills would speed up larger games.

The Thing game wouldn't translate that well imo to WW games. The crux of it is the fact if you hit a thing, you test again. Unless you have a 2nd lynching if you strike fur, it wouldn't work, the odds would be stacked too far to the wolves.

 

[TdC]

yeah, but what if the wolves choose one person to kill and one person to turn every night? hmm, having said that, I'm unsure what that does to the flow of a game: you;d never be able to trust anyone, and thus any vote would more or less be a knee-jerk response I guess.

 

[Will]

With the Thing, you are looking at changes in voting patterns. With the wolf turning, I have no idea how it would effect game mechanics, apart from giving me a headache.

 

[Malecheon]

I feel like I'm stepping into the Will & TdC show, but anyway, reading through the latest mafia game in the DaoC section has been quite interesting, and despite the fact that there seem to be a lot of different role options that could make a game very complicated, Iceforge seems to be doing a real good job of running them, and a couple of the things he does might help with future wolf games.

I noticed he clearly states at the start of each day the number of votes to lynch, and that as soon as a majority is reached, the lynching happens. This has pros and cons, beacuse it was interesting to see the voting changes when we were given time in 2B, but it did slow the game down a bit.

He also gives a cut-off time of when each day/night phase will end. This seems to me like it might help move things along, and could possibly add a bit of tension if voting is close and the deadline is drawing near.

If you're going for a large game though, I think you'd have to follow one or both of these, or it might drag a bit.

Ice is clearly missing some funky logos for the roles though

 

[Will]

Personally I feel a deadline should only really be set if things are dragging. And the debating is entertaining.

With large games, it is pretty inevitable things will drag. I'd step in on the fly and set clear deadlines if that were the case. With the night phases, I've never had a problem getting all the replies back. Usually far more quickly than you would expect.

With complex role options, people are getting a bit hung up on them. As long as the explanation with each PM is clear, I can't really see it being too confusing. But I'll introduce them slowly. The more important issue for myself is game balance, which is what I'm trying to get right. Due to the interesting view the mod gets of the game, I get a pretty good picture how each role influences the gameplay. It seems pretty well balanced at the moment, maybe slightly too far in the villagers favour, but it isn't far off.

 

[Malecheon]

fairy nuff.

I think the complex roles are good personally, it adds a bit more strategy to it and makes the night more un-expected, rather than people feeling like all they're doing is waiting to be eaten/lynched. It just gives you more work to do, to figure out all the actions.

I think the last games were well balanced, luck obviously plays a part, as with the first game, the wolves got lucky picking the seer early, and in 2B we were lucky to kill one wolf early on, or things could have worked much differently

 

[itcheh]

If you had two rival groups of wolves ... and they both chose the same victim at night - they could also turn on each other. Will could 'flip a coin' and choose one to die ... so we'd wake up to a message like:

Villager X was killed, but you also find the body of Wolf Y

 

[Will]

I'd actually just have the villager eaten some more.

 

[Frizz]

Which would then swing the game drastically in the favour of the villagers in one fell swoop.

I'm not convinced two competing packs would create an even game.

edit:// Oh, they'd just get eaten a bit more. Still not convinced.

 

[Will]

Two competing packs should increase the villagers odds, compared to the same number of werewolves working together. Two groups of two would work out roughly the same odds as three wolves, but with a faster game imo.

It'd need to be a fairly big game, but I'd like to try it. It'd be a bit Westside Story, if nothing else.

 

[Ch3tan]

Signups coming soon? Getting major wolf withdrawal symptoms.

 

[RandomBastard]

I'm sure you are you wannabe furry.

 

[Will]

I'll open them up when I get to work, probably starting Sunday night or Monday morning.

 

[ECA]

Remember, no matter which game you're in burn ch3ts first.

 

[Fweddy]

Agreed.