Rm: Dark , Supp or Rc ?

[vintervargen]

47 dark / 26 RC pwns.

u get to be _the_ dmg dealer, second cold debuff make u nuke for about 400-600 on pretty much everything. the gtaoe is a bonus to destealth infils, rooted or not rooted.

since full supp are popular and very good, one often is in the same grp, so no pbt usually aint a prob.

btw, it aint the best solo spec nor the best grp spec, but it still owns

 

[k9awya]

Originally posted by old.Lythande


I'm all for dealing damage. Read my original post FOOL. You still haven't showed me advocating Suppression OR RC please provide a post made by me where I do this. Oh wait then maybe you actually have to THINK before you post.

Well, I'm through arguing with you, fool. Bye bye.

you first posted telling me "bla bla like hitting for 220?"

in which case you are proposing someone would like to chose a different specline than i suggested.

if not.. fuck off out this thread.. its about which runemaster is best, not how crap casters may or may not be when sc comes in, or when someone is buffed.

try reading the whole thread again pls.

 

[k9awya]

And yeah anyone wishing to compare how viable they are solo..

stuff dies quicker to dark, and yeah red's aint too much of a problem.

with RC red hagen (orange) was harder than he is with dark(v v easy)

savage wyverns

blue-yellow + sometimes orange at 50.

Rc #1 bolt: 750 average
Rc #2 bolt: 550 average
Rc nuke: 450 average
Dark spec nuke: 660-695 average (mom2 in case you're wondering about the cap being higher)

was all on the same runemaster so no complaints about RR / RSP ;>

 

[ab_fluid]

ffs k9 quit being so insulting towards people they r entitled to their opinion as much as you are, you got no more right to comment than anyone else and no more way of proving what you say is best, is_the_best, its all opinion, what you like to play etc so stop slating others for their chosen play style and worry about your own k?

Oh, and on topic, my runie is a whopping level 24 xD full RC and tbh the bolts r all well and good but the nukes suck badly, gtaoe is fun in thid but u can also do half decent dmg with aoe's in keep defence etc if you got an ounceof skill. as most posts have said think its personal choice overall, pick what best suits your playstyle.

 

[Qte Eth]

i also find 47 dark 26 sup best
and cold is a nice damage against hib -noone has base 5 cold,and druids only give 16 cold buff ,not 24
and yes cold resist still will be >40 but this is resist reality atm

 

[k9awya]

Originally posted by vintervargen
47 dark / 26 RC pwns.

u get to be _the_ dmg dealer, second cold debuff make u nuke for about 400-600 on pretty much everything. the gtaoe is a bonus to destealth infils, rooted or not rooted.

since full supp are popular and very good, one often is in the same grp, so no pbt usually aint a prob.

btw, it aint the best solo spec nor the best grp spec, but it still owns

I hit for 350-600 on dark anyway

i get pbt and nearsight too

i guess that makes your template a waste ?


did you actually play a char with that gimp spec? hihi

 

[stabba4]

funny to be capped at 700 and hitting for 600, you DO understand that this wont happend on a lvl 50 with 26% cold resists. btw am is so cheap so i think 29% is what you should expect as a minimum. add in abit higher RR and i think that 32-35% can be expected BEFORE any buffs. Now be aware that the first 8% cold res buff is at 24 nurture specc (this is the druid buffline), now healers cant afford going high aug if they wanna compete as a CC class, a druid on the other hand have little reason to go above 36 in nature. some druids whouldnt even take it past 28, seeing all the respecs we had, most people realised that its not what you can do what counts, so if you see a druid chances are fairly high he adds at least 8% cold resist.
this means that expecting 40~ cold resists isnt so dumb as what you have made it out to be. infact 50~ isnt impossible at all, and you whould have to cap on every nuke to be hitting for 350 with 50% resists, i didnt do it with 47d/26s with +13d nor have i ever heard anyone who did. Now in my experience the resists are usually lower on alb's both pallys and friars have the option to get cold res buffs/chants but pallys also have to hold up end regen, while friars where first heavily underplayed and then came out as a strong solo class (??) there cold res buffs seem to never get mentioned (altho it is in enhance specc that any solo friar whould get) i guess there are still to few of them to make an impact on dark RM:s. I dont really understand why albs doesnt reroll some friars and correct this since dark-rm:s are so common.
this means that you will increase the damage output by 80-100% for every dark RM there is in your group against hibs, at least the ones that do have their chars specced to be an effective group, not an effective dueler. your own damage will be higher than if you where a 47 dark RM against those hibs aswell. your damage will be higher as a 47 dark RM on any bluecon without resists. I guess its all a matter of what you intend to group with, and i think this should explain to anyone why 47d/sup doesnt have to be the best specc at all.

 

[k9awya]

look.

i won't lie to you, i sometimes hit people for 600 in 1.58.

not everyone has sc'd armour

may i add that the only thing you can argue to me is that a darkcarver is better than dark/supp

and please dont pretend that people dont have capped energy and energy resist buffs too :>

dark carver.. a few ways to do this.

1> 46 RC 28 dark

you got 50% cold debuff, but the baseline nuke is capped at like 470, considering you have to waste time casting the debuff on everytarget, it don't actually make up its damage on most targets (watching someone play dark rm right now on merlin, hes only nuking some elf for 530 bah oh well).

you also got no PBT or NS!

2> 47 dark 26 rc

this way you only get a 15% cold debuff, so again you take time to cast wasting nuke time, maybe get 100 more damage per nuke, will take 4 nukes to catch up when a dark spec rm casted a nuke instead of a debuff :>

you also got no PBT or NS!

3> 41 dark, 34 rc

30% debuff, spec nuke is 173 but only lvl 37(does get rsisted a bit :>)
not sure if it will hit for 519, but thats its cap, not too much above what i can hit for with a lvl 47 specnuke most of the time, if i do hit for less the extra dd i get where i dont need to debuff will keep me ahead in damage anyway :>

you also get no PBT or NS!

as you see the above rm's suck ofc :>

47 dark / 26 supp

specnuke that hits for 350-600(600 maybe rare but huhu. happens.)
maybe people have got resists and buffs but only really chanter has a viable spec to get around it (debuff in uber line, and lvl 50 base nuke)

you get pbt and nearsight.

 

[old.Lythande]

So, basically what you're saying is that YOUR spec is "TEH BEST!!!!11" and start insulting everyone else who disagrees/has another opinion. Ok, how old were you again?

Then you say that this thread is about which spec is the best for the runemaster but promptly ignore the biggest threat to casters in RvR which is resists. Nice logic.

Tbh, 350 damage for a speclvl 47 30 power nuke is a fucking joke m8. GL HF sitting down punching MCL.

 

[stabba4]

Nope not everyone have SC:ed armor, and everyone wont care about getting resists. But on excali at least hibs usually have a VERY high cold res, and if you ever tryed to nuke a hero to death with 50% cold resist youd cry. I have had the pleasure of grouping with a darkcarver as a 47 dark RM and after the first hours i was so impressed with the kill power that i only wanted to do RvR with him . Now tbh capping everything isnt easy but say energy/heat/cold/body is alot easier if you feel you can afford loosing out on others, SC have made this even easier i guess what server you ever are playing on is very different from excali in terms of resists at least . I talked to a friend and neither me(RR4) nor him(RR6) have ever capped on a lvl 50 without a cold debuff and expecting anything less than 26% res is rare on excali in our experience. this means a dark carver and a 47d rm will outdmg 2 47 dark RM:s on every target except a unbuffed caster, where they are about equal except for the crit probability, witch tilts it slightly in favour of the dark rm:s. note that any IP/FA or heal will give the darkcarver an advantage over the dark RM. this is atleast how it is on excali, and may ofc differ from your server.
Now i havent argued about RC or SUP specc, because you seem to be of the opinion that best rvr templete=most dmg. Im just arguing that 47d/26 doesnt equal max dmg, and if you arent convinced by this i suggest you do the testing on pendragon yourself. Or even better go RvR with a darkcarver with your RM, before i did i was all for 47d/26s as the best specc too .

 

[vintervargen]

k9awya dude,

the last 700k ive had that spec no probs. u know that rooted tank with aim on me, he be down in 3 nukes, but im sure that u, who are so uber, always nuke for 600 without debuff right. what are your enemys? gimps with 5% resist?

 

[k9awya]

xD

okay here goes:

reason for dark rm > darkcarver have been put to you, dont see any reason to repeat.

yes a dark rm does better damage grouped with a darkcarver when both hitting the same target, but if they DC has the 50% debuff his cap will hinder him like a mfer, and his spell level being 5 below that of specnuke its going to resist more, even 1 resisted will totally fuck up your total damage.

like i said its not often i hit people for 600

how many times i said that now? please read, twat.

what is NOT RARE is hitting for 450-520 in fact that is the most likely range on any target!

so with the DC capping out at about 470 and having to waste cast time on a gay debuff he will not out damage that.

the DC you were grouped with was 2 rr's higher, most likely had WP3 or so, and mom2 or more.


now besides damage issues (in some situations he will out damage dark, and vice versa!)

He aint got no mf'ing NS or PBT.. geemp ;>

 

[old.Leel]

I sometimes play around with Uger, 50 darkness, 20 supp runie.
I have never hit for more than 550 without crit. It's most common to hit for 300-450 depending on resists. Less than 300 is not common at all. I do open up with the best cold debuff dd in darkness spec of course. And that usually means 400+ damage for each successive dark spec nuke which also cast very fast.
Oh, and with wild power 3, I tend to crit a lot

 

[shilak]

Lets do a simple analysis to clear this up ... How much damage can each spec do to a single target during the first 17s of a fight, assuming the target can take it all

47 dark / 26 supp

6 shots of 219DD = 1314 base damage cold based

47 dark / 26 rc

6 shots of 219DD = 1314 base damage.
1 shot of debuff, 5 shots of 219DD = 1095 base damage (1259 base damage if 15% debuff sticks) cold based

37 dark / 37 rc / 13 supp

1 shot of debuff, 5 shots of 173DD = 865 base damage (1125 base damage if 30% debuff sticks) cold based
1 shot of debuff, 5 shots of 176DD = 880 base damage (1144 base damage if 30% debuff sticks) energy based

47 rc / 26 supp

1 shot of debuff, 5 shots of 176DD = 880 base damage (1144 base damage if 30% debuff sticks) energy based

50 supp / 20 rc

5 shots of 179DD = 895 base damage energy based

As for resists ...

Vs Hibbies there is little difference as the resist buffs are on commonly used Druid/Warden spec lines.
Vs Albs energy resist is likely to be lower than cold resist as high Enchancement is common among Friars but uncommon among Clerics.

Quick summary of the specs above ...

47 dark / 26 supp - 10s bubble, highest damage output, 45% nearsight.
47 dark / 26 rc - highest damage output, useful GTAOE.
37 dark / 37 rc / 13 supp - choice of cold or energy damage, good GTAOE, can cast bubble fellow middies, 25% nearsight.
47 rc / 26 supp - 10s bubble, 45% nearsight, best GTAOE, high damage bolts for long range killing.
50 supp / 20 rc - 6s bubble, 65% nearsight, basic GTAOE.

As far as I am concerned all the above specs have a place in RvR. Bascically, take high Darkness spec for best single target damage, high Suppression if you want to be group support and Runecarving for keep takes/defence.

Personally, I prefer the 47 rc / 26 supp spec and that is the one my runie will be taking.

 

[shilak]

BTW k9awya, do you even play on Excal? Because the resists we see on a lot of the Hib groups are pretty sick, Ive even been grouped with a 47 Dark / 26 Supp runie who nuked a chanter for 100 (-400), although that was an exception. Generally, the good hibbies groups will all be running around with all resists in the 50-60% region, therefore landing that 50% debuff only negates their resistances and rarely means the DDs cap out.

Albs arent so bad as they dont have many high Enchancement spec Clerics around, so their Energy resists are unlikely to be much over 40%, even on the better groups. But there are quite a lot of active Friars in RvR, which results in a fair amount of Albs having 50%+ cold resist, again making the debuff very useful.

Whilst I will admit that for the most part the groups you meet have fairly low resists, which is where you engage your brain and just get on nuking, it is the well organised and prepared groups that you need to be ready for.

 

[ab_fluid]

Originally posted by shilak
BTW k9awya, do you even play on Excal? Because the resists we see on a lot of the Hib groups are pretty sick, Ive even been grouped with a 47 Dark / 26 Supp runie who nuked a chanter for 100 (-400).

thats what 80% resist musta been chanter ra + top resist buff + capped base resist its simply not possible without the chanter ra on that afaik.

 

[stabba4]

ok i wont waste time explaining things anymore, ill give you a very simple maths example (even k9awya should understand this)

the example illustrates a very common RvR situation, the target have 50% resist. this means you will hit hit it as a dark RM for xxx(-xxx), where |-xxx|+xxx can not go above your cap. THE DIFFERENCE IN END DMG WILL THEREFORE BE 100% NOT 50%.
on any target that can take 4 nukes and have 26% cold resistant a darkcarver will catch up to a dark RM. THERE ARE TARGETS THAT CAN TAKE MORE THAN 4 NUKES EVEN BY YOUR YBAR RM N00KING FOR 3000K. i dont expect you to understand any of this, you have not paid any attention to any of my arguments, and you are not a dark rm you are a arrogant n00b with with high dumb-spec. so plz stfu and die irl,k???????

 

[vintervargen]

lame punk k9awya

,|,, (x_x) ,,|,

go back to yer us servers, maybe u can find some us boards too?

 

[lofff]

IMO, 26sup gives u lots a versatility and so is a must, full sup ends up been a nightmare (u can barely cast with such mana drain pulsing) So there u got 2 options:

a) 47rc/26sup = The most popular one, imo the funniest due to versatility, wtg at least in regular servers.

b) 47dark/26sup = Cool one too, only problem is u _ONLY_ get a high DD after 47lvls spec, bit boring, bit dull. wtg at least in pvp.



I started my pvp rm as RC, and enjoy'd it like hell, but respecced to dark since pvp is too messy, involves lots a "soloing" making debuffs useless, bolts are cool while "soloing" but u better do not solo in pvp as a paperwhore. pvp = DD power. rvr = organization and teamwork (debuff, nearsight, bolt that caster sumtimes... and ofc GTAE is uber on a rvr server, no use on pvp)

 

[k9awya]

lol @ posts

yes i play excal but only just started not long ago

not every group is an LA group, and if energy resist is lower than cold vs albions who really cares? the energy nukes are all shit dmg anyway.

you have to do the best with what you got, having to cast a debuff and then only have the chance to hit for 470 is pretty lame and i would laugh at anyone doing so, ffs i crit for more than 470 :>

will show you some screens later, of nuking the leet's who have SI items and shiznit, lots of hibbys and not one nuke was less than 350, a lot in the region of 500

and ps, they did get raped by nearsight,

ns is even a better spell than nuke, it pwns and those lamo darkcarvers dont get it ;>

<new darkcarver> omg time to try my new leet spec

your target feels more vunerable to cold
you hit for 470

<new darkcarver> wtf, this sucks i dont get pbt or ns, and that dark nuker just owned some luri in 2 dd's ;<

 

[ab_fluid]

Originally posted by k9awya


I hit for 350-600 on dark anyway

i get pbt and nearsight too

i guess that makes your template a waste ?


did you actually play a char with that gimp spec? hihi

as far as i see from your points of view only your spec is good everythign else is gimped, stop being such a narrowminded butt plug and instead of the inside of ur ass u may see the other spec lines r there for a reason, and are jsut as viable as ur mofo uber spec, k?

 

[k9awya]

Originally posted by ab_fluid


as far as i see from your points of view only your spec is good everythign else is gimped, stop being such a narrowminded butt plug and instead of the inside of ur ass u may see the other spec lines r there for a reason, and are jsut as viable as ur mofo uber spec, k?

but they aint as viable

rc nuke did 290-350 like 1 year ago, the craze for resists hadnt even started, hate to think what id hit for if i was rc nowdays

supp nuke is just like rc nuke but with a gay snare on it

bolts are gay.. but i think rc is good for gtae, nothing else!

and dark-carver is just a WASTE OF A CHAR

 

[stabba4]

gah should of known your just a karam wannabe playing stupid to give us a laugh . Sorry for the flame, must say you really had me fooled ^^

 

[k9awya]

Originally posted by stabba4
gah should of known your just a karam wannabe playing stupid to give us a laugh . Sorry for the flame, must say you really had me fooled ^^

nice way to try and win an arguement, not.

wtfpwned you have nothing to say on the matter, go away.

 

[Dook_Pug]

K9, I've been all three. I think Supp is the best. That's my opinion.

You don't. That's good for you. Does this mean that you're wrong and I'm right? No. It means we have differing opinions.

65% nearsight is far superior to the nearsight you get being 26 Supp and 6 sec PBT is excellent for PvE and group RvR, you cannot dispute that.

The damage isn't up to scratch admittedly, I do AT MOST 100 damage less with my level 50 Supp DD than I did with my level 47 Dark DD. (FYI the Supp DD isn't baseline).

I consider 100 less damage a fair tradeoff for the sheer utility of this spec, not to mention the snare on the DD and AE DD which both have a multitude of uses and add a completely new aspect to RvR.

You don't agree? Fair enough. Everyone has their own playstyle. Rubbishing specs because you don't like them is narrowminded and foolish.

 

[k9awya]

never had a problem disabling a wizard with the ns i got with 26 sup

also goes for scouts etc

i admit, the pbt you got is nice, but supp damage = rc dd

which wasnt up to scratch long before SC imo!

 

[AbPoon]

imo! ?

irl kkthxbye

 

[old.Glabbin]

dark

im 50 darkness

 

[k9awya]

not bad for a dark gimp wouldnt you say ;>>

ps included a poor one, of nearly -200

less than 100 damage behind the darkcarve cap, how elite


ps this is all from 1.58 rvr, ie more sc and si items than joo can count.

 

[ab_fluid]

Originally posted by k9awya
never had a problem disabling a wizard with the ns i got with 26 sup

also goes for scouts etc

i admit, the pbt you got is nice, but supp damage = rc dd

which wasnt up to scratch long before SC imo!

imo ofc u jsut wtfpwned urself xD