Request booking sheet for RR's? or some Albs speaking for the majority again?

[quinthar]

Heard last night that Alb were not allowed to go for the Middy Relics because of a Night time/early morning RR embargo is this the case?

Dragon booking forms
Sidi booking forms
RR booking forms next?

Discuss!

 

[old.anubis]

albs are not allowed to make rr
they behaved bad for last couple of months ^^

 

[ab_fluid]

Originally posted by quinthar
Heard last night that Alb were not allowed to go for the Middy Relics because of a Night time/early morning RR embargo is this the case?

Dragon booking forms
Sidi booking forms
RR booking forms next?

Discuss!

midnight RR = Ardamels teh uberleet will RR you at 5am and use the excuse that 12pm is as much none primetime as midnight

 

[Pandemic]

Originally posted by quinthar
Heard last night that Alb were not allowed to go for the Middy Relics because of a Night time/early morning RR embargo is this the case?

yes thats the case. applies to all realms though. kinda of a current 'cease-fire' at unsuitable times

 

[Kallio]

Re: Re: Request booking sheet for RR's? or some Albs speaking for the majority again?

Originally posted by ab_fluid
midnight RR = Ardamels teh uberleet will RR you at 5am and use the excuse that 12pm is as much none primetime as midnight

yep yep, what about 200 albs at 5 a.m. ? that´s "ok" I guess since albs allways zerg

 

[Archeon]

I think the only realm that has a genuine reason to complain about early morning/non-primetime raids are the hibs. Seeing as they've upheld the 'Primetime only' RR ethic for so long, where are Mids/Albis are just as guilty of breaking it as each other.

Incidentally, i'd like to sign myself up for a RR towmorrow (22nd) at 1900 hours. So nobody can come to HW/FS at that time, and no stealing my kills!

 

[Flimgoblin]

lol archeon

quinthar - there seems to be some sort of agreement that noone raids in the middle of the night - means people other than doleys and students can join in the realm-war

 

[quinthar]

What concerned me the most is that there has been a distinct lack of raids since this boycotting of anytime raids.

We had a shed loada albs in Odins last night and the common consensus was that we were going to put the firghteners up the mids cuz the hibs were doing keeps too.

Then when we did Arvakr somebody said w00t lets go get ourselves a relic this was around 12:20 ish after taking several keeps, our incursion to mid territory started around 11:00-11:30 I guess maybe earlier.

The next comment was that there was an unofficial ban on late or early raids and guild X would not be participating then several other guilds piped up with the same sentiments.

I was not happy, yet again somebody seems to be making back room deals.

My concerns are as follows.

1. 17:00 - 23:00 raids makes for a very very boring game
2. Late night raids?, who really gives a shit cept for the people that cant take part, why should raids fall into time slot A becasue Jimmy wont finish at berger king till then.
3. Who was the moron that agreed no late or early raids when we have 1 relic ffs?
4. The game is becoming so predictable now, guild X raids sidi on fridays at 7pm because they always have so there, on week 25 guild Y is leading a relic raid at 9pm because we're not allowed to raid outside those times, next week Guild W is doing barfog so nobody else can, I mean ffs this is getting really very very silly.

Sure nobody likes to lose a relic at 5am to the mids but it sure as shit stinks makes it more interesting for the next few weeks.

 

[quinthar]

Originally posted by Flimgoblin
lol archeon

quinthar - there seems to be some sort of agreement that noone raids in the middle of the night - means people other than doleys and students can join in the realm-war

And so what if they do relic raids, just becasue I work shed loads of hours does not mean others should not have any fun in my absence how amazing, I noticed the smiley but tbh there is some truth in what you said and frankly think its a very poor show.

I hope somebody breaks the moratorium and the boredom.

 

[quinthar]

Re: Re: Request booking sheet for RR's? or some Albs speaking for the majority again?

Originally posted by Pandemic
yes thats the case. applies to all realms though. kinda of a current 'cease-fire' at unsuitable times

If people think this strongly then perhaps they should petition goa to make it not possible to do RR's outside certain times or change the way it works, eg: 1 Relic can be taken per 24hrs etc, but at least give the whole server the chance to vote on it or a pro rata population basis.

But having dirty deals done is not the way forward.

 

[old.anubis]

there's no agreement on not doing non prime time rr
feel free to take em, np
but i'm afraid next saturday you will wake up without any relics

 

[old.Thanatlos]

It's not dirty deals..

It's a mutual sign of respect to get rid of all the 'he who can get up earliest has all relics' kind of stuff.
You'd get a constant switching of relics without opposition if you did late night raids, and they'd get later and later because you can point at the enemy and say 'well, they started'.
And everyone would suffer because people would lose interest in trying to organise anything BUT a late night relic raid against keep guards because the enemy would just take it back again when your realm cannot possibly defend it.

Dunno what your idea of fun is but mine isn't to stay awake to really late or get up really early to fight some keepguards just for it to be taken back again the next night by the same tactics.

Problem with this 'honour' system is where to draw the line. Enemy will always say it's an unacceptable time unless it's right in the middle of prime-time. It is therefore people's own choice to decide whether they find the time acceptable and if they want to partake in a relic raid.

 

[NightyP]

No one likes to wake up/stay up at 5am just to raid an empty keep?
thought that was the reason, this is the daoc communitys health at risk from sleep loss

 

[Pandemic]

well i can understand why some albs would feel disapointed. i would guess with the mid keeps down and a lot of mids having logged off you would have had a good chance to take our strength relics.
but think of it the other way round if there were lots of mids on and few albs due to it being an unusual time would that be then ok with u for the mids to take ur relic ?

its not exactly a case of backroom deals hibs i dont think have ever done an unusual time rr and the late night / early morning rr's between mids / albs were getting a bit silly as neither side could defend against them so lots of guilds came to a mutual understanding

 

[bult]

its not about not beeing allowed to do RRs its just that some people like to have a fun and challenging game and not just "beat" the enemy while they sleep. Simple really.

 

[Gordonax]

Originally posted by quinthar
Then when we did Arvakr somebody said w00t lets go get ourselves a relic this was around 12:20 ish after taking several keeps, our incursion to mid territory started around 11:00-11:30 I guess maybe earlier.

The next comment was that there was an unofficial ban on late or early raids and guild X would not be participating then several other guilds piped up with the same sentiments.

I was not happy, yet again somebody seems to be making back room deals.

My concerns are as follows.

1. 17:00 - 23:00 raids makes for a very very boring game
2. Late night raids?, who really gives a shit cept for the people that cant take part, why should raids fall into time slot A becasue Jimmy wont finish at berger king till then.
3. Who was the moron that agreed no late or early raids when we have 1 relic ffs?
4. The game is becoming so predictable now, guild X raids sidi on fridays at 7pm because they always have so there, on week 25 guild Y is leading a relic raid at 9pm because we're not allowed to raid outside those times, next week Guild W is doing barfog so nobody else can, I mean ffs this is getting really very very silly.

Sure nobody likes to lose a relic at 5am to the mids but it sure as shit stinks makes it more interesting for the next few weeks.

I was one of the people yelling for no relic raid.
Quinth, mate, there's no back-room deal. Basically, there was a phase a while ago when Albion and Midgard in particular played relic ping-pong, raiding each each at ridiculous hours and it really messed up the game.
Think about it. If there wasn't an agreement like that, last night's fun would not have happened. Most Albs would not have bothered to respond to the Mids invading our frontier, because they would have known that, by next morning, 3fg's of Albs would have raided Midgard, knocked over every keep one by one, and taken the relics at 5am.
No one would bother going to the time and effort of making primetime relic raids, because they would know that by 6am the next morning, the relics would be back where they started. And that would mean that the majority of players in all realms would never get chance to take part in a relic raid or defend their relics - which would mean the game would be a whole lot less fun for them.
To answer another of your points, I believe that when the agreement was made the relics were pretty much spread evenly. The relics Albs have lost since then have been lost at legitimate times, to someone who (love him or loathe him) at least has bothered to think up a plan and execute it, and at times when the majority of Albs COULD defend.
Early morning relic raids spoil a lot of the game - it doesn't make it more interesting.

 

[Gordonax]

Re: Re: Re: Request booking sheet for RR's? or some Albs speaking for the majority again?

Originally posted by quinthar
But having dirty deals done is not the way forward.

It's not dirty deals mate: it's that we went through a phase of alarm clock raids and EVERYONE saw that it was making the game less fun. That everyone's managed to stick to doing primetime raids since then shows how bad it was.

 

[Pin]

I see no problem with doing a relic raid at midnight, or 2am, or whatever if there has been prolonged fighting in the frontiers, keeps taken and plenty of opportunity for defenders to prepare.

I do see a problem with everyone logging off and logging on at a pre-arranged time, zerging the keep with a force 5x as large as the total number of defenders online and running off again.

This is not a distinction based on the actual time of the raid, but more the manner, the "it's not primetime!" cries are mis-placed in my opinion - the call of "alarm-clock raid!" is more that a large number of people logged on when they wouldn't normally be on and take relics without needing to fight.

Last night there was prolonged fighting in the frontiers, keeps changing hands, 100+ people there on all sides, lots of warning, lots of defenders from either realm, etc. I would not have had a problem if Mids had attacked Excalibur, and would have felt no remorse if Albs had gone for Mjolner at midnight.

Unfortunately, the last time Albs took the Strength relics during the night after a 12-hour prolonged invasion, someone decided that it was ample 'justification' to log on a 200-man force first thing in the morning when no-one was online and take them back. Hence the "alarm clock raids".



And incidendally, I don't see an 8pm "all log on now!" raid as being above criticism due to the 'chance to defend' issue, but at least in that case there are normally lots of people online, just not able to move quickly enough.

It's not particularly 'fun' for either side participating anyway in my opinion - give fighting!

 

[Gordonax]

Originally posted by Pin
Last night there was prolonged fighting in the frontiers, keeps changing hands, 100+ people there on all sides, lots of warning, lots of defenders from either realm, etc. I would not have had a problem if Mids had attacked Excalibur, and would have felt no remorse if Albs had gone for Mjolner at midnight.

Yep, I agree - it would have been good for last night to culminate in a big battle at a relic keep. But it would have lead to another phase of alarm clock raiding, because some people would have seen it as an excuse to start them again, and that meant it wasn't worth it.

 

[Gordonax]

Originally posted by Pin
And incidendally, I don't see an 8pm "all log on now!" raid as being above criticism due to the 'chance to defend' issue, but at least in that case there are normally lots of people online, just not able to move quickly enough.

It's not particularly 'fun' for either side participating anyway in my opinion - give fighting!

The difference is that a log-out raid at least isn't a gaurenteed win - the last time Alb did one, we didn't get a relic. I don't think it's totally above criticism - it's not the way that I'd like to win a relic - but it's far more legitimate than something at 4am.

 

[quinthar]

Originally posted by Gordonax
I was one of the people yelling for no relic raid.
Quinth, mate, there's no back-room deal. Basically, there was a phase a while ago when Albion and Midgard in particular played relic ping-pong, raiding each each at ridiculous hours and it really messed up the game.
Think about it. If there wasn't an agreement like that, last night's fun would not have happened. Most Albs would not have bothered to respond to the Mids invading our frontier, because they would have known that, by next morning, 3fg's of Albs would have raided Midgard, knocked over every keep one by one, and taken the relics at 5am.
No one would bother going to the time and effort of making primetime relic raids, because they would know that by 6am the next morning, the relics would be back where they started. And that would mean that the majority of players in all realms would never get chance to take part in a relic raid or defend their relics - which would mean the game would be a whole lot less fun for them.
To answer another of your points, I believe that when the agreement was made the relics were pretty much spread evenly. The relics Albs have lost since then have been lost at legitimate times, to someone who (love him or loathe him) at least has bothered to think up a plan and execute it, and at times when the majority of Albs COULD defend.
Early morning relic raids spoil a lot of the game - it doesn't make it more interesting.

And you know what, Relic ping pong as you call it took the monotany out of crafting or the boring 8pm-12 midight faffing about in emain or Odins.

It was more fun too, I agree with Pin, time should not be an issue, last night would have provided some great fighting were it allowed to continue. It was pretty much impromptu there was some great keep takes and fast too, not bad for a throw together bunch of Albs.

The clincher for me is that the mids didnt need to come out to play last night and mostly didnt, because they were arguably safe in the knowledge that we werent going to take a Relic or two. That alone takes the spontaneity out of the game for me.

I'm sure some people perhaps a lot wouldnt mind seeing the back of me in these forums and I daresay the game also, but when more and more things are seemingly being regulated, stated or otherwise then a lot of the fun of the game will be gone for me.

I like spontaneity, its the spice of life for me, and deciding not to do a raid because somebody will do it back to us at some perceived silly hour is simply rediculous.

Being safe at home behind a warm fire is nice, but is it fun?? I think not..

Bring on the fighting and the big scale scraps we used to have at Nottmoor et al and bring on the relic raids.

And and for DF changing hands so many times it was great

 

[Gordonax]

Quinth, did you actually read my post?

And you know what, Relic ping pong as you call it took the monotany out of crafting or the boring 8pm-12 midight faffing about in emain or Odins

Except that it didn't. There were no relic raids at primetime. Unless you were prepared and able to get up at four in the morning, you didn't get to go on a relic raid. In fact, the relics might as well have not existed.

The clincher for me is that the mids didnt need to come out to play last night and mostly didnt, because they were arguably safe in the knowledge that we werent going to take a Relic or two. That alone takes the spontaneity out of the game for me.

You're wrong: the Mids DID come out last night, in great numbers, towards the end. By the time I died at 12.30, they were beginning to outnumber us. That's because they know that they have to retake the keeps that night. If they had left four keeps in enemy hands overnight, they would have lost the relic to a raid early this evening - within primetime.

Bring on the fighting and the big scale scraps we used to have at Nottmoor et al and bring on the relic raids.

Again, read what I said carefully: if we have alarm clock raids we WILL NOT have big fights like we had last night.

Quinth, if you feel that strongly about it, organise yourself 3fg of people - that's all you'll need - prepared to get up at 4am and raid. You'll only fight gaurds, which will be boring, but you'll get the relics. You won't have the relics the next day. And you'll have a more boring time in regular play. A couple of months later there will be another unofficial agreement to stop alarm clock raids, because people will have again seen how pointless it all becomes when they happen.

And finally...

I'm sure some people perhaps a lot wouldnt mind seeing the back of me in these forums and I daresay the game also, but when more and more things are seemingly being regulated, stated or otherwise then a lot of the fun of the game will be gone for me.

No, if you feel strongly about it this is exactly the place you SHOULD be posting something. I'm glad you started this thread because I'm sure there are quite a few people around who maybe haven't played the game for all that long and don't remember the alarm clock raid era. And I'd much rather that people read this and maybe understand why they're a bad idea.

 

[kirennia]

Wheres the fun in taking enemy keeps when there are no defenders at 5am. Wheres the fun in loosing what you gained the very next day, then having to get up at 5am again the day after to do it all over again. It's ridiculous, that's why.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by kirennia
Wheres the fun in taking enemy keeps when there are no defenders at 5am.

Indeed, but that's not the issue.

There were attackers and defenders from all realms.

 

[Gordonax]

Originally posted by Pin
Indeed, but that's not the issue.

There were attackers and defenders from all realms.

Like I said - it wasn't worth the risk. By the time we'd have got the relic home it would have been 2am BST - 3am CET. There are definitely Mids who would have used an RR at that time to restart alarm clock raids (and you know who I'm thinking of )

 

[Tootz]

I don't really see a problem if relics changed hands much more, to be honest I think it would spice the game up a bit because at the minute RvR is all too stale and Relic Raids simply don't seem to happen anymore.

This game is active 24/7, so I don't see any reason why you shouldn't do a RR at anytime. Just seems that Relics aren't even considered these days, its just a given that Hibs have all the power ones and mids most of the strength.

 

[Bilf]

I think people need to realise that there is a difference between "alarm clock raids" and "non primtime raids" (in the sense that what happened last night could be perceived as non primeimte anyway).

Judging by the force of mids that stepped on my head at Arvakr I think it would be justifiable to suggest that the mids could have mounted a pretty impressive defence against a RR.

Due to the fact that it had been gaining momentum all evening, it would be grossly unfair to suggest that if a RR did happen that it would have been lame due to the time of day.

In summary, read what Pin said, he put it better than me.

 

[Gordonax]

Look - to everyone saying "it's a 24/7 game", or "there should be more relic raids" or "taking relics at 1am isn't out of primetime" - just go ahead and do it if you want to. No one's going to stop you. But be warned there WILL be consequences that won't be good for your enjoyment of the game.

 

[quinthar]

Originally posted by Gordonax
Quinth, did you actually read my post?

Except that it didn't. There were no relic raids at primetime. Unless you were prepared and able to get up at four in the morning, you didn't get to go on a relic raid. In fact, the relics might as well have not existed.

Actually I did, In fact I have been on shed loada raids, None of them were at 4-5 in the morning, if thats how somebody wishes to play the game tho then let them, I/we do not have to follow suit, Mid or Alb (Hib perhaps being the exception probably) have the capability to do v large prime time raids, neither have done for a bit and that frankly makes for a very boring game, I do recall the massive scraps at nott and the hibs stealing a relic when albs and Mids were locked in a big fight at nott and grats to them.

You're wrong: the Mids DID come out last night, in great numbers, towards the end. By the time I died at 12.30, they were beginning to outnumber us. That's because they know that they have to retake the keeps that night. If they had left four keeps in enemy hands overnight, they would have lost the relic to a raid early this evening - within primetime.

Doesnt that in itself kind of negate your argument, clearly the mids had the capability to defend their relics..secondly with an agreement in place why do they have to retake their keeps? why would they bother?

Its a well known fact that Mids are prepared to retake thier own keeps at 3-4am when they are NPC controlled......oh hang, on just like a NPC guarded Relic keep...

Again, read what I said carefully: if we have alarm clock raids we WILL NOT have big fights like we had last night.

Quinth, if you feel that strongly about it, organise yourself 3fg of people - that's all you'll need - prepared to get up at 4am and raid. You'll only fight gaurds, which will be boring, but you'll get the relics. You won't have the relics the next day. And you'll have a more boring time in regular play. A couple of months later there will be another unofficial agreement to stop alarm clock raids, because people will have again seen how pointless it all becomes when they happen.

And finally...

No, if you feel strongly about it this is exactly the place you SHOULD be posting something. I'm glad you started this thread because I'm sure there are quite a few people around who maybe haven't played the game for all that long and don't remember the alarm clock raid era. And I'd much rather that people read this and maybe understand why they're a bad idea.

Not only do I remember alarm clock raids; frankly whilst I dont think I would do one, I respect the decision to do one; I remember ones prior to that, raids from a year ago or further back than that, so before you attempt to suggest I do not know what is involved or required to do a raid I thought I'd let you know I have been around for quite some time, I do know what is involved.

And yes, I'm also glad I posted too, massive battle by and large do not exist anymore probably because people cant exploit the summoners anymore, Lack of RR's makes for a boring game.

Never mind lets carry on with the continual zerging by all realms I'm sure that must be more fun for all realms concerned. at leats with RR's they Zerg for a reason.

 

[Tootz]

But be warned there WILL be consequences that won't be good for your enjoyment of the game.

Ah you mean like not having relic raids at all and having next to no chance of getting them back when you have none because you can only raid during peak hours when so many people are taking part that it shuts the server down... no wait thats what its like now

I wasn't on last night, but by the sounds of it there was a perfect opportunity for a great scrap between Albs going for the relics and Mids defending, but because it was an hour or two outside "Prime Time" nothing happened. I just see that as a shame for all involved to be honest as they probably would have had lots of fun and thats why we all play.