Removing the incentive for the mega zerg

Discussion in 'Warhammer' started by civy, Jun 16, 2009.

  1. civy

    civy One of Freddy's beloved

    These are just example rounded numbers to make it easier to demonstrate.

    Make BOs/Keeps/Zone's have a pool of rp's that are devided out between those present.

    A BO is designed for a WB size attack and will have a pool of 8400
    A Keep is designed for 2 WB's size attack and will have a pool of 36000
    A Zone is designed for 4 WB's size attack and wil have a pool of 288000

    There will be a cap of 500 rp's for a BO, 1000 rp's for a keep and 3500 rp's for a zone

    Taking a BO as a example

    If 1 fg take a BO they wil each get 8400/6 = 1400, but capped at 500
    If 1 WB takes a BO they will each get 8400/24 = 350
    If 3 WB's zerg a BO they will each get 8400/72 = 116

    Yes you can still run in a mega zerg but the reward will be a lot less.
  2. rynnor

    rynnor Rockhound Moderator

    Why punish people because there are only a couple of zones in play at any one time in T4?

    Thats bad game design but I dont think you can justify punishing them like this - at no point does it say that massively means only 2WB can take a keep etc. etc.

    What if there are 2 WB or more are hiding in a keep - if anyone manages to take such a well defended keep even if they are more I still think they deserve a decent reward?

    There are already less rewards for Zerging a keep since theres no extra loot.

    This would just encourage the ninjas and punish everyone else - I dont see exploiting terrain to get a healer inside as something to be encouraged.

    I would prefer changes that offered more choices in T4 then people would naturally be filtered out a bit?
  3. civy

    civy One of Freddy's beloved

    As I said these are sample numbers to demonstrate the point. I dont see it as punishing, hey there are loads in this zone, why dont you go to another rvr lake where you can get more rp's.
    As for a defended keep, you get rps for killing the players in the keep. I may have missed the point something but I thought that was the point of the game.
  4. rynnor

    rynnor Rockhound Moderator

    You are still punishing people because there are a lot of them - based on what exactly?

    You obviously dont like the zerg but alas they pay for the game - its surely up to them if they want to rvr?

    What you say about keeps is not currently true - the game rewards the taking of a keep seperately from the renown of killing people to represent the greater challenge of taking a keep than just fighting in the open.

    What your effectively reccomending is a 12 WB cap on people in Orvr when 3 zones are contested and with a fort captured an 8 WB cap but you still dont give any reason for this cap?

    I think the last thing this game needs are more zone caps - the real solution imo is more places for people to have a reason to go in T4.

    Edit: Oh and you mentioned the point of the game - well surely the point of this game was to have massive battles?
  5. Loneliness

    Loneliness Loyal Freddie

    ye agree punishing a percentage of people is bad and poor game design
    :twak: @ fort cap
  6. Mabs

    Mabs J Peasemould Gruntfuttock

    omfg fucking newbs, get out of my zone, im capping it with my 3 mates, stop stealing our RPs

    apart from that, its a passable idea, would never work tho , cos of ^
  7. civy

    civy One of Freddy's beloved

    The game cant handle massive battles. All I want to do is split peeps up over multiple zones. Surley that is better than LAG fests.

    The only way I see is giving rp incentives and disintentives. rp's are what are driving most players mentality atm.
  8. Bugz

    Bugz Fledgling Freddie

    Something EA/Mythic have failed already on.
  9. Ctuchik

    Ctuchik FH is my second home

    yes its better to spread out in terms of lag but its not gonna happen when one side is starting to lose grounds they want to have as many ppl in that one zone as they can. so unless theres a multizone push going on theres only gonna be that one zone that has any form of fun in it.

    sure you could go and pve BO's and keeps in other zones but how fun is that?

    and even if there is a multizone push most ppl wont risk losing ALL zones by spreading out so they go to the one they have the best chance of winning in, and maybe send half a warband to the other zone(s) delaying the caps by ninjaing BO's.

    same goes for the attackers. they wont risk a win by spreading out over 3 tiers if they can do one tier at the time. as you need some serious number of ppl to take a well defended keep, and there just isnt enough ppl to go around if they are spread out over 3 tiers. and its been proven time and again that you dont need THAT many warbands to hold a keep from vastly superior numbers.

    so unless were actually talking popcap ala fort fights, you're idea is never gonna happen even with the rp cap.
  10. `mongoose

    `mongoose One of Freddy's beloved

    Rather than punish people for grouping up - why not simply make it easy to avoid and move around the zerg?

    Why (oh fucking why) do we have three discrete zones for pvp in each t4 pairing?

    I'm not sure about warcamp locations but I think it might be a good idea if there were warcamps in Chaos Wastes (destro) and Reikland (order) and the flight masters in praag in pve camps a significant way away from the pvp zone.

    Then make the "pairing" lock as one. Thus ensuring that all scenarios and pq's in a pairing are available until that pairing is locked and ensuring that all scenarios and pq's count towards domination.

    This then means we can lower the contribution of said scenarios and pq's and slightly boost the contribution of keeps, bo's etc.

    This should lead to smaller groups sizes because you simply HAVE to split up to guard all the objectives in a zone. You can "zerg" one objective or Keep but it should be relatively easy for even the outnumbered side to move around the zone ensuring small fights.

    You can't guarrantee small fights however and some people will always roll with their friends and their friends 100 other friends too no matter how you make the system.

    I just miss the whole hugeness of the rvrlakes of cammie. The zones in War are too small... way too small and this size compresses the warbands active in a zone to make rolling over everything and everyone in one zone possible.

    Spread the bos and keeps accross three whole zones (maybe one keep and two bo's in each) and all of a sudden it's not so easy one one zerg to lock an entire pairing down.

    I dunno - I think space is what the game needs to help even numbers out. Not restrictions or punishements

  11. TheBinarySurfer

    TheBinarySurfer Can't get enough of FH

    Good idea - impossible to implement though given that war can't even cope with instanced content with decent numbers in it currently, let alone the existing size zones.

    Would require a smoothly coded client and server (which they don't have), and a complete redesign of T4 as a whole (which they don't have the resources for post-release having ditched a large chunk of creative and testing staff).
  12. rynnor

    rynnor Rockhound Moderator

    Maybe a third realm might fix some of this if you added it cleverly?

    We need more zones for rvr and a 3rd side would help balance things a little better plus fun 3 way fights :p
  13. pikeh

    pikeh Resident Freddy

    3rd side would make this game so so so much better.
  14. Mabs

    Mabs J Peasemould Gruntfuttock

    cool plan
    they could make a game with 2 sides, then add a 3rd about 2 days before it goes live, not test it properly, and give it broken shit they never fix

    oh wait, they already did that with hib

  15. pikeh

    pikeh Resident Freddy

    One word;

  16. mooSe_

    mooSe_ FH is my second home

    A third realm will never happen in WAR. There isn't any races to support it. In Warhammer lore the races are pretty much all against each other, but Mythic have chosen to implement it as Good vs Evil.
    Or maybe we could have Order vs Destruction vs Skaven?
  17. Bugz

    Bugz Fledgling Freddie

    Plus introducing a third realm nearly a year after release would either be met with it being overpopulated or vastly underpopulated. I can't see how it would ultimately lead to a 'sufficient' balance.
  18. Gahn

    Gahn Resident Freddy

    It always intrigued me idea of having the 3rd Realm as the underground one (UD + Skaven mainly) and having it's zones intersecting the other 2 realms' ones. Fix a Pop cap based on %s of other active accounts, lock the Capitol for 2 weeks after release and give all the rerollers /level 20 toons with xp and rp 200% bonus.

    But i imagine it is too cool to be truth seeing as Mythic can't even fucking fix it's game Code -.-
  19. TheBinarySurfer

    TheBinarySurfer Can't get enough of FH

    Fix it's game code? Find it's collective arse with both hands you mean!

    Given what i've just read about EA's latest financial reports, i'd imagine another round of EA-group wide cuts will be inbound this year.
  20. rynnor

    rynnor Rockhound Moderator

    You have good v evil - why not a 3rd realm of shifty neutrals?

    Brettonians would be fun, halflings maybe or even Lizardmen or remnants of the mighty Slann - the Warhammer world has many neutrals that could be used.
  21. mooSe_

    mooSe_ FH is my second home

    But to make it balanced they would probably want to have the same amount of classes for the third realm. I could think of 4 or so classes for each additional race, but not 12. And none of the remaining races can really ally up with each other so you couldn't have another realm with 3 races in.
  22. Bugz

    Bugz Fledgling Freddie

    I don't know why you guys are discussing it. It would never work now. Those kind of changes are either made at release or not at all.
  23. Gahn

    Gahn Resident Freddy

    Cause we have some time to waste .. wasn't kinda obvious? ;P
  24. Bugz

    Bugz Fledgling Freddie

    Well stop it! You're making me daydream of just how viable WAR would have been with three sides :(
  25. pikeh

    pikeh Resident Freddy

    Yes come on guys, lets not ever discuss anything that won't happen. Lets murder our imagination and only ever talk about viable options please.

  26. Bob007

    Bob007 Prince Among Men

    Forget 3 side. Lets have Tank, mdps, rdps and healer archtype for each race and have some 6 way action :)
  27. Bugz

    Bugz Fledgling Freddie

    What a silly suggestion.
  28. pikeh

    pikeh Resident Freddy

  29. Nate

    Nate FH is my second home

    One idea that was put forward in beta was that areas populated by too many players will slow them down, like the mud gets slippery, etc.

    Didn't happen then though :(
  30. Flimgoblin

    Flimgoblin It's my birthday today!

    Not fought near Wilhelm's Fist on Norn in primetime recently? everyone's stuck in the mud :p

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