Relic Excitement

[>.< Pooned]

If you ask me i still think you should send this to mythic...

And bring back OF IMO!

BRING BACK OLD FRONTIERS +1

 

[Nedo]

Hehe remember getting 2fg of our guild up at earlly morning a sunday (ye it was only way to get it back then since guards allmost wiped us ) to relic raid with Soul Pact as organizers (Saxif and..Jaenna or something iirc) half of the force not even 50. Most fun RR I been on in Daoc. Musta been....spring 2002? Naw cant be that long ago? ^^

 

[Jeriraa]

Nah, OF are too small now. Everybody asking for that zones to be reintroduced is very shortsighted. You'd be crying for NF a month later.

 

[mithridatis :)]

I enjoyed typing /gu An armsman was just killed by 240 enemies in the area and see the others guild members type like they had a heart attack!!!

 

[xxManiacxx]

I loved the old relic raids.

 

[pip]

lol and the total feeling of being raped,when you lost them ,bit like capture the flag,the amount of arguments in /as lol Dam and relic guards seem way tougher to back then

 

[Flimgoblin]

I like relic raids - in NF it's less liable to be completely screwed over by a bit of lag or a server crash than in OF.

However it doesn't help that half the realm doesn't want to take relics from themselves (thanks cluster).

 

[Elrandhir]

Well tbh I think that the realm spirit is what have degraded the most, sure it's worse with RR's etc in NF, but well noone cares about helping out either tbh.

People just don't care and instead of helping they do their own thing, I think this is very sad tbh, everyone could help out more when needed instead of goiong doing their own thing.

Not like it's often RR's Keeptakes etc happens either, so it wouldent be to much asked to help out some tbh, can't say Im the Hero of the realm or anything, but I will help out if needed ;D

 

[Jeriraa]

Well tbh I think that the realm spirit is what have degraded the most, sure it's worse with RR's etc in NF, but well noone cares about helping out either tbh.

Here we have a classic chicken - egg problem.

It was said already... The lack of a higher goal causes people to focus on the only other goal thats there once you're done with all the PvE: Realm points.
The way they are awared provokes tension between players.

All that seriously hurt the spirit of the game.

 

[Elrandhir]

Everyone doing their own thing and not helping when needed is what have the game end up very boring tbh, even though everyone can do what they want you should help you'r realm when needed, I think that never helping you'r realm is worse then those always adding, I rather have them around then tbh.

 

[Kahland]

i agree. give better ways of taking relics, maybe make them easier to take so there's more changing around with them

 

[Aran Thule]

It is very hard now to take the relics, i did the first successful relic raid on new frontiers (in pryd, not sure if excal did one before that) and i was absolutely knackered at the end after leading for 14 hours.
Since then we have had the cluster which has put two communities together, this made it even harder given that half the people dont know the others.
I tried my best to bring the two sides together but how successful it was a dont know, it just seems that people arnt interested any more.
It made a hard job even harder and given the potential number of people that can join in you cant make a quick strike, you have to get over five hurdles each of which can grind to a hold, not including the fact that the keeps can be retaken closing the gate.

On top of this you have the small detail the the amount of frustration it is for a raid leader, when 60% of the battlegroup dont follow instructions and arguements and abuse cause friction.
Even if its an unknown, someone having a go at you spoils it, i used to have fun trying to motivate the realm and getting them working together, now it feels more of a chore then fun.
I havent given up hope but i dont lead raids half as much as i used to, relic or PvE because i do it for fun and for others to have fun, and it isnt fun when people have a go at you, even for things beyond your control.
One annoying detail is that people say they want someone to lead and then when they do there are suddenly a dozen backseat leaders that do thier own stuff, which when you need everyone working together can make things impossible.

 

[brad]

Easiest way to get a RR going is spam Giwaskhs or how ever you spell his name.

Usually works for me

/send giw-e Keep Take Keep Take!!!!!

Shift (repeat message)
/send giw-e Keep Take Keep Take!!!!!
/send giw-e Keep Take Keep Take!!!!!
/send giw-e Keep Take Keep Take!!!!!
/send giw-e Keep Take Keep Take!!!!!
/send giw-e Keep Take Keep Take!!!!!

10 minutes later, okay, okay. You get some rams, and we set up a BG.

35 minutes later. The forces of Midgard has captured Cear Berk.

10 minutes later half the BG leaves, as they now have irvr, and cba for keep takes. O well so much for that rr.

Or we get 1 wipe, and again half the people leave.

 

[Soulja_IA_]

Because of nature the way Mythic made how RR are done in NF put a hell of a lot of people off as it is to time consuming.

In OF the Relic keeps were determined by how many guards which were High con were defending the Relic keep this kept the people who like to take relics at 3 in morning more of a challenge and also the Relic keep was in the open arena and not determined on how many keeps are needed to open the relic gate.
The guards at the relic keeps were hard but were diminished when the keeps of that realm were taken so making the guard spam less for an invader.

With NF taking 3 keeps at 3 in morning is easy for a fg to do so not much of a challenge to any good FG so I believe Mythic in next update for RvR content should look at this and try and address the Relic Situation.

I would like the Relic keeps to be brought back into the open again with Keep relic guards defending it High con as before and on same restrictions as when keep is taken less guards spawned at Relic Keep.The Location of the keep should not be to far from being reached by the defenders and also the Relic keep to make that more challenging to get to for attackers have only 1 Entry/Exit point maybe guarded by 1 Twr and if Guard spam from that tower is noticed it informs the WHOLE realm so defenders can gather they forces.Hopefully it be a challenge to take but also make it so the early birds of this game can not take Relic as easy as they have done before.

Think this would make the 3 realms happy as to go on a RR was REALM challenge I liked defending/attacking in OF was great spirit wether you succeded or failed and some good friendships came from this.

Hope Mythic address this soon as I think Spirit of the Relic Raids in NF is well Booooooooooooooooring.

Soulja

 

[Iridius]

I have chatted about relics and relic raids with a RL friend and guild’y not so long ago. I don’t think we came up with the solution but a few good ideas that came out are probably worth a few lines here…

The focus of the game has indeed changed from RR (realm gain) to RP (personal gain) and it has taken away from the spirit of the realm – no argument there.

Generally NF is a good thing, it’s normal to smooth off the rough edges when you think back on things and focus on the good things. In OF there was lots of waiting around to port, terrain and agro were a problem especially in the old Albion frontier in Pennines which had huge rolling hills lots of LoS issues and 10,000 cyhraeths to insta-shout you to death as you lagged into them. The old Midgard frontier was better but the terrain was still not so good and most of the flat open areas were within guard patrol zones which made moving about without giving away your location difficult. So everyone went to Hib-Emain.

LoS on keeps was a joke, again Albion keeps had so many blind spots that it made them harder to defend than take. It was possible to jump up on the battlements at some given points on Mid keeps which made it possible to fire/cast on people bellow but they were next to the climb points so often got assassinated there. Hib keeps were better, bit too large for 1fg to keep the walls clear of assassins but you coud jump up and down on the low wall anywhere and the little covered bits had lowered walls at the side where you could fire/cast form… best deigned keep, least LoS issues even more incentive to RvR in Hib frontier and the keeps to change hands the most were DC or Crim.

NF resolved most of these issues at the cost of something subtle which has been the cause of much vintage-whine on these boards, adding.

In OF most of the visible zerg, the stealth zerg and some solo visible and stealth leachers were in Emain. Some opt’d- 8v8 groups to but mostly the zerg. Odin’s tended to have more 8v8 groups in at given times of the evening and more solo’ers and more solo stealth’ers. HW had gimps like me in, the die-hard nuts that fell in love with a class on release and were too stubborn to give up in hope that Mythic would get its corporate thumb out of its ass and fix them. All the way through Dark Age of tank a-lot, the rise and fall of Zerkers and back-stunning savage assist trains I stuck with my wizard and had fun PvP fights in HW with the slow dribble of solo and small groups of enemies that came through HMG and MMG in HW.

I become side-tracked, the OF setup kept these players with different play-styles apart and this is no longer the case.

Anyone remember “the one thing” post?

I remember writing something quite lengthy along the lines that RvR should be one big some with some kind of natural open groups with fortification and pinch points in the middle for battling enemies on. That taking a keep would move the frontline forward or back but then exposing the flank to the third realm making the whole realm war a dynamic and variable thing.

Well we sort of got this in NF but though a bit odd from a role play / historic PoV we really needed Agromon from the beginning.

Another very annoying thing about RR in particular on OF was Alarm-clock raids and Ninja raids **no finger pointing, everyone has done it, perhaps some more than others but what’s past is past what we chose to do next is what’s important** The concept of having to take keeps to open the relic MG was implemented to stop this and it did BUT it made re-taking relics very hard and generally made the realm with the highest population (generally Albion) on all served slowly getting and holding all six relics.

Mythic never had the stones to put active realm population caps when they made the game to force the realm population balance to within say 2% and tried t balance this fundamental problem by bolstering classes from realms that generally had fewer numbers i.e. Hib and Mid – stupid form an 8v8 PoV but it’s the reality and we have to live with that. Also giving classes that made up for fewer numbers (for example animists, when Hib populations were very low on US serves before SI). Not knocking the class that’s not the discussion here merely the reality of what was important then and how it affects the way RvR has changed.

I think all will agree that Alarm-clock raids ruin the feel of the game and Ninja raids though perhaps to a lesser extent as they require planning and organisation but sill are not the epic struggles to gain some mighty realm empowering item that a RR was intended to be. Finding ways to inhibit this form happening was important but I think Mythic seriously need to look again at the requirement for SO many keeps to be taken to open a relic gate with server numbers the way they are now.

In OF you had to choose to go right for the Relic keep and face a wall of uber-purple guards but maybe less player defenders or take some keeps and face fewer but a realm load of players lining the walls. This choice in itself was a good thing as it made very raid different where as now they are the same formula (take this this and that keep and we’re good to go).

I am not sure how a fair system could be implemented to give something more dynamic but inhibits alarm clock raids. Perhaps something like they had after NF when live. If less than a given % of the primetime player base is online any enemy approaching a relic keep is magically ported back to his or her NF bind point. I know that this would excludes people who’s RL commitments mean that can’t play of then at prime times but this is concept not suggestion - needs some work but would prevent AC RRs.

Perhaps the Relic MGs could be opened by some other means than keep captures (if a mechanism to stop AC RR was in place) and that like before taking keeps lowers the number of guards that are defending the keep or made it easier to open the gate or somthing. If this was true then the guards would need to be at the mile gate or there would need to be more (some) fortification around the relic shrine itself - more thought needed.

The real fruit of my friend an my discussion was moving relics around…

Another big problem with the OF system was that all the relics tended to move together, perhaps if relic movement was made easier then it might be an idea to make it that only one relic could be in transit at any given time and/or possibly put a 30 min cool down before another could be picked up.

Holding a relic in a RR was always exciting but a bit of an anti-climax. I’d always held the relics I ore in concept but I remember when I held Excalibur’s scabbard it’s gray-con delve and “no special properties” information kind of take away form that. I’d like to see the relic purple con or more, holder have some kind of aurora or a big spinning glowing relic above their ‘toon making it more dangerous and exciting holding it because you are the target for everyone to see. A sort of epic CTF which in essance a RR is that.

Relics cannot be put on a boat – have to be taken through Agromon and the pinch points there; there currently once it’s on a boat it’s pretty much game over as you can go by almost any route and land almost anywhere on your home cost and run it back from the enemy frontier with impunity.

We came up with some other stuff but I really need to get on with some work work now so I won’t bore you all more but these are just a bundle of ideas, some might be helpful.

 

[SkarIronfist]

OK,

I think things for RVR are pretty fine atm.

We can IRVR in the alb/hib frontiers... mid could do with some work on odins gate to give it same accessiblity. So we move it around all 3 main RVR Zones.

How ever agree about the Relic Raid Issue.

My solution ... keep what we already have. But change 2 keeps (1 power/1 strength) in each Realm (In alb it would be Renaris and can't remember the other one), the keeps the furthest away from the IRVR zones . Give these keeps lvl 15 - 20 guards (old style tough bastard guards - you know what I am talking about).

If you take one of the "Special" keeps with uber guards. Then you can destory the gate to the relic you are interested in. This means it takes time to take a relic keep. But it can be done quickly. With a well organsied force. But there is enough of a time for the realm to get to the relic gate (Just as we have now) for a fighting retreat to the shrine of the relic.

Note - I am note sure about making it mandatory to take the towers as well.

This keeps the new, it gives back some of the old ... and combines to give everyone a fighting chance of taking the relics. Without it being .... a vast yawnfest.

 

[liloe]

You say the relic boni cause imbalance? I think their impact is minimal. There are so many ways to gain equal boni... finish a guild mission and you have half a relic for 24 hours. Get a ML10 weapon and you have a similar bonus. Claiming keeps gives boni too.

Then tell me how a mage can use an ML10 staff and GAIN dmg from using it? =) Then look what it was in OF when hibs had the 2 mage relics nearly permanently. Mage damage was insane and heals were uber aswell, that is unbalanced imho, cause the effort to have these relics was minimal. The effort of keeping a relic has shifted to the opposite now, except if you play on a very underpopulated realm. Ask Mids on Carnac or Albs on Glast, it was pretty crap to get relics back.

I think if relics would change hands easier the quality of the game would improve and so would the spirit of what we call a community.

And every tank/healer in the game would /delete cause of being bored to death sitting in a keep. The few times I'm forced into a siege as healer, I FoP and stick a piece of wood into the grpheal button and relax. That's acceptable one per month, but if relics changed more often (which would mean having to defend the realm more often, not even talking about offense cause I cba to go and take them in other realms tbh, siege is simply shit), I'd get bored to hell and I don't think I'm the only one.

Fix sieges first, then think about these useless relics imho.

If I want sieges I can play Stronghold =) They're pretty nice there and very tactical aswell =)

 

[Elrandhir]

Im not just talking abut RR's, there is generally lack of careing about helping atall with anything tbh, well some do ofcourse, but many wont bother to help atall and just think (I belive) let someone else do it, if it's some towers keeps needing to be taken back, most people just don't bother in helping, even though they might want to have them back.

Some effort to help out more wouldent hurt tbh, instead of think like screw it, let go do something else instead.

Noone can tell anyone what to do though, so not much anyone can do, but dosent hurt to say it neways as I think many just don't care atall about assisting when some Tower/keep is in enemy hands, same goes usually for when keeps are to be taken in alb/mid, some do a great job, but many couldent care less tbh.

Do whatever you like otherwise, but the few tmes something like this happens Ithink it aint to much asked to help out abit ^^

Could just be how I see it, but I think Hib lack most on this part then any of the other Realms, just how it has looked to me.

 

[Konah]

relics are too easy to retake atm, i agree they were too hard in OF tho. needs some tweeking.

 

[Dallas]

Agree with succi, not really that much intrested in relics/keeps at all anymore, was fun when i started to rvr, allmost every day was something new and intresting. Kinda lost that feeling when you can nearly navigate the frontier blindfolded, feels like playing the same map over and over in a fps game.

 

[Elrandhir]

Tbh leet thinking destroys a game as much as people who adds, I don't really say this to insult anyone and this usually happens to most games after awhile.

With leet thinking I mean like you think that what you do 8 vs 8, 1 vs 1 is the thing that is right and most other things are just for Roleplayers, For the realm, or random n00bs.

Could be abit of an exageration (hm maby it's spelled that way)
But I think some parts of the game dies out because people start to think like this and after awhile more and more will.

Me myself I like all parts, even though some less, but even so I have an open mind and wont think of anything someone else wants to do as something less worth or how I should put it.

I do think doing some things as a realm will make the game itself survive longer and let more of those playing have a fun time.

Still Daoc have been running for a long time now, and it's not strange that it have ended up like it has.(I feel that the realm feeling is long gone)

 

[Chimaira]

I remember first mid relic raid on albion at Castle Excalibur in OF(Prydwen) when we just got ToA and FF savages chew trough the wood in milli seconds and they got relic before we even left sauvage. FF got nerfed thank god

relics are too easy to retake atm, i agree they were too hard in OF tho. needs some tweeking.

Its supposed to be HARD to take the relics

 

[GReaper]

Yes, I miss quite a lot of the aspects from old frontiers.

Keeps are far too boring/slow to take, part of the fun before they introduced NF was the fact that people had to rush to defend a keep/relic - now things are so slow you can usually wait and still be there in plenty of time. You had to get enough people to kill any keep takers quickly, you couldn't just rely on sneaking through a side entrance to try and get to the oil.

I'd prefer more emphasis on more power for each keep, instead of just the relics.

Anyway, the cluster is one of very few servers where the relics are all neutral, the only other server which has this at the moment is Glastonbury. I think this shows a huge difference in the playerbase of this server compared to all the others. Players on this cluster are usually very keen to take a single keep for instaRvR, but it's impossible to get people to take a second keep.

I prefer it like it is currently, players from each realm rely on skill instead of bonuses from overpowered relics.

 

[Jobbegea]

make the mile gates so that you can destroy them.
patrolling lvl40-65 guards over the place to avoid soloers to take it down.

relic keep should be just a keep guarded with some uber guards.
just like OF. conquering a few keeps to keep the uberguards away.

 

[Sharkith]

Tbh leet thinking destroys a game as much as people who adds, I don't really say this to insult anyone and this usually happens to most games after awhile.

With leet thinking I mean like you think that what you do 8 vs 8, 1 vs 1 is the thing that is right and most other things are just for Roleplayers, For the realm, or random n00bs.

Could be abit of an exageration (hm maby it's spelled that way)
But I think some parts of the game dies out because people start to think like this and after awhile more and more will.

Me myself I like all parts, even though some less, but even so I have an open mind and wont think of anything someone else wants to do as something less worth or how I should put it.

I do think doing some things as a realm will make the game itself survive longer and let more of those playing have a fun time.

Still Daoc have been running for a long time now, and it's not strange that it have ended up like it has.(I feel that the realm feeling is long gone)

this is quite a strange statement especially given the fact that on a thread here only last week the vast majority of people said they kind of like to do a range of things. Where is the evidence that we are heading into a future of leet thinking?

I don't get it.

 

[Succi]

make the mile gates so that you can destroy them.
patrolling lvl40-65 guards over the place to avoid soloers to take it down.

relic keep should be just a keep guarded with some uber guards.
just like OF. conquering a few keeps to keep the uberguards away.

agreek , however If 1 guard is pulled , they all should come or it should trigger something to prevent somebody focus pulling them one by one

 

[Spetsnaz]

remove Relics plz

 

[Kagato]

My personal suggestion is this:


Remove all Relics.....

But

Instead add a small bonus (perhaps 1 or 2 %) to both melee and magic damage per Enemy Keep owned.

Therefore you have an insentive to take enemy keeps and keep a presence in the enemy frontiers, and its in a realms own best interest to keep their frontier clear to stop the enemy recieving bonuses. Therefore you have confrontation as well as a reason to think of your realm.


Also I would reintroduce the old uber relic guards but instead make them keep guards and tied to a keeps towers.

i.e every tower owned for a keep will place a uber guard inside the keep, whos level increases with the tower, just like the old relic guards we had.

This way it means even if you cannot reach or get inside your keep you want to defend, you can help by taking back the towers instead. And vice versa, it will help to take towers before a keep too.

my thoughts, from a tired old tank.

 

[Spetsnaz]

casters dont need any more dmg bonus their damage is sick as it is...

for melee ye but caster noway i would actually suggest drop their damage by every keep their realm owns by 5%

 

[Elrandhir]

this is quite a strange statement especially given the fact that on a thread here only last week the vast majority of people said they kind of like to do a range of things. Where is the evidence that we are heading into a future of leet thinking?

I don't get it.

We have been there for quite some time tbh, maby it's only me who see it, still i think not.

Im neutral tbh and I just say what I belive when seeing how things are.
I have no need to make out things for the worse or better, I just state how things looks.

And well yeah all of those playing Daoc has probably posted here Im sure

Nothing strange atall, more strange you think it's strange tbh =P