Relic Excitement

[Succi]

Does anybody miss the general excitement that used to be brought by a relic raid in old frontiers ? It was the only real time "powergamers" and "roleplayers" were rvring with the same goal and it really brought a realm together

now add in the factor that the relic had to pass certain points made /AS very lively and basicly made those couple of hours (and everyone could ignore the whole "adding" issue) when relic was still neutral very enjoyful

I think in this kinda feeling has been lost in NF alot.. as a relic raid force would get dragged down by various issues before actually reaching the relic. Some new content should be added similar to OF relic raids to make sure a realm has to work together ; which provides incentives for both casual and power gamers

maybe I should have submitted this to mythic instead of making a thread, but oh well gimme your thoughts

 

[Eeben]

relic raids was alot more fun in of same with keep takes tbh

 

[Aybabtu]

If you ask me i still think you should send this to mythic...

And bring back OF IMO!

 

[Samaroon|Terracotta]

Think the main things that spoil keep takes/rr's now is the fact 90% of the people there are casters, since the tanks just log their since it's more 'fun'. But back in the day everyone and their dog would log their armsman/paladin/merc for the keep takes

 

[Raven]

OF RRs were much better than the NF ones, these days its just down to whichever realm has people still up at 3AM, no real planning goes into them.

 

[Vodkafairy]

relicraids take sooo long in NF... probably the biggest problem

i really miss the OF raids too, when every realm had a leader and it was incredibly important everyone worked together.

 

[Sagano]

must say i dont only miss the old RRs
but also the old frontiers
new ones feel like a big square to me

maybe im just nostalgic and getting an old bag hehehe

 

[Golena]

I actually miss the old relic raids alot.

These days I normally can't even be bothered turning up. When relic raiding relied on surprising the enemy and getting a large group of people to a location to do something fast it was alot of fun, and more importantly only lasted a few hours before it was all over.

Now it's much more a case of who can bring the most people who can stay the distance. Anyone can keep coming back and treb a wall down from the safety of a tower. I think the biggest difference is how safe you can be while attacking a keep. In OF keeps the attackers were at a large disadvantage, so you had to take it before the defenders arrived or have alot more people. Now you can take a tower with a few fg's of caster and sit in relative safety mashing at the keep walls meaning seiges drag out for hours with neither side having the numbers to oust the others.

Keep fights just arn't as fun as they used to be either. The layout of the keeps, while much better for looking at and videoing previews of your game don't lead to good rvr. There's too many times it simply comes down to trying to hide in a corner and hope the enemy stashed away in the keep can't find the place they need to stand to get LoS to you. 20 directions to look in for enemy at any one time doesn't lead to good rvr, it just leads to you spending 10 minutes franticly panning, then a caster popping out of a door behind you and killing you in 2 nukes, hardly "fun for the family".

 

[Maeloch]

Not sure those days will ever be back, think as much to the maturity of the game and shift in peeps attitude to realm stuff as much as any technical reason...but relic raids potentially involving 12hrs+ of sieging and stand-off don't help much either. Mebbe cluster didn't also.

btw take a look at some threads from FH 2yrs ago or whenever it started. Quite cute to read some of the difference in peeps attitude to realm and various other stuff then and now.

 

[Coldbeard]

I too feel that the excitement and thrill about relic raids is lost, miss the old ones done primetime in OF. Still remember the first relic raid I participated on, was mids raiding hibs, was awesome. Lagged like shit though :<

 

[Eeben]

sucks you can trep down walls now i miss the good old time where everybody had to go on the door to beat it down

 

[Arethir]

I think a main difference is that in OF there was alot of fun AFTER the relic was cought aswell. Alot of the times there were huge confusion when the relics were taken, and it was always a blast trying to organize something to keep it from getting into the enemy relic keep. Atleast i remember when Matriarch (i think) ran around with the relic solo, after they had retaken it from the enemies, and he was just running randomly about in emain/brefine or somewhere, trying to hide Happened more than once afaik!

 

[auroria]

i miss ardamels catapults zergs, where we had like 20 catas or so assisting on one gt, was great fun. and the hunters volley assist, rm's gtao
give back OF and Ardamel!

 

[Kraben]

OF rr's was loads more fun than NF ones.

 

[Jeriraa]

Yeah, Relic Raids or defenses where great.

Relic Raids don't happen for multiple reasons these days:

* You need to take too many keeps first.
- Each keep on its own is a battle that can last hours.
- If the enemy decides to retake one keep while you are taking another you are not getting anywhere.
- Even if you manage to take enough keeps there is the milegate wich is a massive chokepoint.

* It is too hard to take a keep.
- Defenders being able to bind at the keeplord is too much of an advantage.
- Casters are the mainweapon these days. Their DPS is too high for healing classes to counter over extended periods of time. The range bonus the battlements give further amplifies that.
- Centerkeeps are too hard to take. Too many stairs and corridors until you reach the Lord put the attackers at a disadvantage. Wards and traps amplify this.

* It is too easy to take a relic back.
- To get a relic back you have to take a single keep. This is not in line with the effort of getting one.

 

[Corran]

I miss old OF relic raids.. cant solo take the relics in the new setup
Was fun running into a relic keep filled with hibs and getting up the top, grabbing relic and almost getting out before they even noticed i was there. Then getting ready to try intercept the relic carrier (still solo) and as I head for AMG odins have a hib pop along, wave and hand it over to me


Lots of good times in defence as well, like hibs on the power relic and get in, then Redb pops up and grabs the relic and just as he does so he gets stunned by my lvl 46 mini. Much confusion followed because no one could target the relic in the middle of Hib pbaoe spam and nearest target was tough because all the bags of coins that were about. Eventually I targeted it and SoS'd through the PBAOE, grabbed the relic and went steaming out hte keep with a load of hibs chasing eventually when they realised. Got lost trying to get to snowdonia due to lots of mob aggro but somehow escaped



Most of all I miss the community, back then if a relic keep was attacked everyone would go running (to a degree). This was done knowing that if you didnt defend then the relic would be lost. It banded everyone from the n00b to the elite. Now, if a keep is attacked it a matter of "oh great, more Irvr. Think i just log" instead

 

[Sharkith]

I only ever made one relic raid before the curtain was brought down on old frontiers. Hibernia on Prydwen were always hopelessly outnumbered as far as I remember. It took so long to get to 50 and there were no maps in game either. Things are so much easier now to get around that it has changed significantly.

I agree that element of surprise has gone and now it is much more about sustained zerging. I do think however that some of the new frontier tactics are good perhaps the keeps are a bit too resilient?

 

[Edlina]

It was actually kinda fun to stand at yggdrasil with 3fgs and 20 trebs destroying the inner door then lifting the relic out back in OF

 

[pip]

Yes I miss it loved the old yaggdra skelly camp with jon he used to whatch my back when I would xp, lol he had the hole of the guild xping there good old days

 

[Maddude]

Yea miss OF...good ole times of 40 rams on the doors

 

[scarloc]

I liked getting attacked more than attacking, running out of CS toward excalibur on pally, with people logging in /levelled mini alts and inviting everyone to get them there quicker.

Eclipse FG on the way, always hiding just off the path. Having to avoid that was nice, as were the running battles down the road cs>excal as more groups of all 3 realms turned up.

And always always watching chat window to see if they'd got there yet, everyone updating the situation on /as :]

 

[Aybabtu]

I liked getting attacked more than attacking, running out of CS toward excalibur on pally, with people logging in /levelled mini alts and inviting everyone to get them there quicker.

Eclipse FG on the way, always hiding just off the path. Having to avoid that was nice, as were the running battles down the road cs>excal as more groups of all 3 realms turned up.

And always always watching chat window to see if they'd got there yet, everyone updating the situation on /as :]

About that, loved stealthing around the road towards the relic keeps in OF killing solo'ers and stragglers aswell as dishing out info to the chatgroup

Back then it felt like assassins actually had some use

 

[Wazkyr]

wouldn't say i especially miss the pre nf keep raids, but indeed the relic raids was more fun. Althou they are still fun in nf... we just never have them since its so freaking hard taking first 4 level 10 keeps . Should remove the posiblity to claim stuff, so all was just green/blue con, easy take

 

[Thadius]

relic raids was alot more fun in of same with keep takes tbh

What was that scotsman who cracked open the whiskey on the first one on Alb/Prydwen?

 

[liloe]

Well, tbh my opinion on this is that relics should be removed completely. They are a huge effort to take, I agree on that part, but they give a major imbalance, especially considering the NF structure.

As I see it, it's either who has the bigger numbers or who is still awake late at night who gets the relics and in the end the party with the bigger numbers gets the benefit of more damage aswell?

This game is very unbalanced in many aspects and having more than the standard relics further penalizes not having the numbers to stand up against a huge force.

I think the idea of the keeps giving different boni when having them is already nice cause the boni help, but are not exagerated.


NF was done with the idea of having better siege options and a better terrain to fight, but it's a lot like the old frontiers. Agramon was designed for fg action, but it's barely used. So before fixing relics, I say remove them and start reworking keeps.

As it stands, claiming a keep is a BP hog for a guild and the only benefit is to know you're helping your realm and kinda protecting the relics...not a very nice motivation I think.

When DnL (Dark and Light) first appeared, I liked the idea of guilds getting more options when claiming keeps, but ofc DnL stands for a much bigger terrain. So I think it would be nice to take over some of that things in DAoC, like giving guilds more options on what they can do with a keep. Having to pay bounty points all the time sux a bit I think. It would be much better if keeps were claimed at what we call lvl 1 and were then upgraded, giving different boni for the players in the realm. Upgrading would then cost bounty points, depending on where the keep is (more in an enemy territory of cause). Also every keep in a realm could give another special bonus when a "relic" is built inside (a monumental thing that costs quite an amount of bp's)

Ok, a lot of talk, here's an example. Let's say we (TD) claim Dun Crauchon. So we'd have a little keep with zero defense. We start upgrading the walls, then the guards get better equipment and the size of the guardteams who roam increase. What about being able to select the combo of the teams, I want 3 healers, 5 tanks and 2 mages for instance. Once the walls have reached higher levels, they grand additional cover against arrows/bolts. If you start buying enchantments on the keep, everyone fighting inside gets some automatical buffs. Now say we build the "relic" inside. Seeing that Crau is the last keep in the realm, building it gives a 20% speed bonus for all Hibernian ships, meaning we can go faster to the other realms. As this "relic" is specially important, taking the keep and stealing it (by bringin it to the relic shrine in Mid/Alb) gives the stealing realm another 20% boat speed bonus (40% in total for 2 and 60% for 3) for 7 days, after which the relic decays.

Ofc this would make taking keeps even harder, so let's see what medieval siege lords had at hand. The range of trebs/catas should be higher than bow range, this makes sense in my opinion. Also there should be possibilities for brace siege masters to build wooden arrow shields nearer to the keepwalls, able to be carried like a ram, making people "inside" immune to damage from the front. Also Shade NPC's should have the same visibility as a usual lvl 50 stealther, so that assassins can really do their job, assassinate.

Now a last thing to keeps =) If a BG goes for a keep, guilds should be able to buy a certain amount of "mana" with bp's, with which they can do special attacks on the keeps, like a giant Firestorm, or a heavenly fist that deals like 10-15% damage on the keepdoor. Attacks should be limited to once or twice per siege of cause.

Sounds boring? Well, I don't like sieges either, but this is also due to the large amount of not paying off and being bugged to hell. You fall off ladders, you gotta have LoS to your target to heal and in the end you only kill ress sick people worth 3 RP's, thus more or less wasting your time.

Hm, so one aspect is missing you say? Ohh right, Agramon. Why not change it to what it was meant to be, an island of pure combat. Give a /rw map for Agramon where every assembly of more than one group (and maximum +2 "spectators") pops up instantly, so you can avoid being rushed by multiple groups easier. Well and to give fighting there some special taste, every killed enemy should fill up the "mana" of the guild, so they don't need to use bp's to buy that.


tbh....I just sent that in feedback =))

 

[Jeriraa]

Before NF the game was revolving around the relics. We were three realms at war. This concept got killed by Mythic making it way too hard to take a relic and way too easy to retake one. Now all the game is about is all realmpoints cause there is no bigger goal to achieve.

You say the relic boni cause imbalance? I think their impact is minimal. There are so many ways to gain equal boni... finish a guild mission and you have half a relic for 24 hours. Get a ML10 weapon and you have a similar bonus. Claiming keeps gives boni too.

I think if relics would change hands easier the quality of the game would improve and so would the spirit of what we call a community.

 

[Gahn]

Does anybody miss the general excitement that used to be brought by a relic raid in old frontiers ? It was the only real time "powergamers" and "roleplayers" were rvring with the same goal and it really brought a realm together

now add in the factor that the relic had to pass certain points made /AS very lively and basicly made those couple of hours (and everyone could ignore the whole "adding" issue) when relic was still neutral very enjoyful

I think in this kinda feeling has been lost in NF alot.. as a relic raid force would get dragged down by various issues before actually reaching the relic. Some new content should be added similar to OF relic raids to make sure a realm has to work together ; which provides incentives for both casual and power gamers

maybe I should have submitted this to mythic instead of making a thread, but oh well gimme your thoughts

In the past we got more than a tiny controversial, prolly now we are more keen to each other but i absolutely agree with u this time ( did it made sense? )

 

[Gibbo]

I loved the old frontier relic raids. There was always a real ebb and flow to them with each side having to second guess each other all the time. It made for great strategy from all sides.

Now in New Frontiers it is hopeless. Assuming you achieve taking 1 keep and its towers which in itself is no easy task you have then basically given the game away because the game dictates that if you have taken Berkstead first then you have to take Benowyc and Boldiam to open the Albion Power Relic for example. This makes it I think easier for the defenders and harder for the attackers and basically drags the whole thing out past every sane persons bedtime and you get into all sorts of arguments then on forums about raids going on too late.

They should remove the need to open the relic gates. An attacking force should have the option of being able to bash the relic gates open with siege should they wish and like in the old frontiers the number of keeps in enemy hands should make it easier to do so.

 

[Gahn]

Think the main point, bar all other things, it's that in OF at least the Relic Raids were the only time when all kind of ppl playing the game had fun, regardless of fg vs fg, solo, zergs and whatever; basically cause for succesfully ending one u needed all of em. Cause back in those days u needed tactics to get relics not only zergs and time -.-

 

[Kagato]

The focus now has shifted from Relics to Realm Points, no one cares about relics now due to them being so hard to take but so easy to retrieve.

Most of the relics raids post NF have resulted from days if not weeks of an enemy realm camping a frontier with instant port up until they finally had enough of a strong hold to attempt the relic gates.

After all that work 2 fgs can stay up late and take the relic back in the early hours within a couple of hours.

With this in mind most people would rather ignore the relics and just carry on farming rps instead.

Its not just the game mechanics to blame though.

You have to keep in mind many of us here having been playing for over 4 years now and seen relics come and go dozens of times already, and are simply to tired and uninterested in it anymore.